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  1. #1001
    Quote Originally Posted by Durzlla View Post
    But then you're putting all your eggs in one basket where as with the current system I can have both a defensive phantasm (warden) and a phantasm twirling around crippling enemies, and there's a simple solution, don't make clones if you don't want to part with your phantasm! *GASP!* if only it were as simple as that!!
    You could do that, but it will still be a summon and forget thing, not really interactive and what if you need a clone? What if you need a shatter and wasted that oh so awesome phantasm over a clone.

    Phantasms will always be too good to shatter( BWE2 ), or just not good at all that they are no better then clones and you just use them for shatter and not their effect (BWE1).

    Its better just to separate the 2.
    Last edited by zito; 2012-06-12 at 12:19 AM.
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  2. #1002
    The Lightbringer Durzlla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    You could do that, but it will still be a summon and forget thing, not really interactive and what if you need a clone? What if you need a shatter and wasted that oh so awesome phantasm over a clone.

    Phantasms will always be too good to shatter( BWE2 ), or just not good at all that they are no better then clones and you just use them for shatter and not their effect (BWE1).

    Its better just to separate the 2.
    The difference between me and you Zito is I'm a fan of chaos and have no problem at all summoning a phantasm to force change in my enemies play style and then shatter it as soon as they adapt and start bringing in clones...

    However, that being said I do very much like the idea of phantasm chain skills, that would be cool!
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  3. #1003
    The difference between me and you Zito is I'm a fan of chaos and have no problem at all summoning a phantasm to force change in my enemies play style and then shatter it as soon as they adapt and start bringing in clones...
    If they did that I wouldn't be saying anything, moving around your whirling phantasm isn't a change in playstyle. You just moved, like everything else.
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  4. #1004
    The Lightbringer Durzlla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    If they did that I wouldn't be saying anything, moving around your whirling phantasm isn't a change in playstyle. You just moved, like everything else.
    They usually dodge out of the way, expending their energy, and if they aren't adapting and keep getting slaughtered by it I leave it be! Btw dropping an illusionary warden and playing ring around the rosey with it has won me so many fights against people with no Melee weapon =D!
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  5. #1005
    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    I did before, nobody liked the idea. They wanted more than 1 phantasm but yet to figure out you obviously had to buff them since you get 1 at a time.
    I actually really like your idea. I hope Arena Net possibly uses that idea, even if they add your chain idea to existing phantasms and they still share the 3 illusion limit, its still a great idea. Also its not too much of an overhaul so more likely they would make changes like that.

  6. #1006
    The Lightbringer Durzlla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hauntress View Post
    I actually really like your idea. I hope Arena Net possibly uses that idea, even if they add your chain idea to existing phantasms and they still share the 3 illusion limit, its still a great idea. Also its not too much of an overhaul so more likely they would make changes like that.
    The problem with Zito's idea (especially if you buff up the phantasams) is you're not making a choice at that point, it's you use your phantasam for offense AND get to keep the defense of your clones, and if they did buff the phantasam to make up for not having multiple then the phantasams themself would just be to strong (i think earlier zito said the illusinary gunners would do 6k-8k damage per shot? that's more then an elite skill!)
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  7. #1007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Durzlla View Post
    But then you're putting all your eggs in one basket where as with the current system I can have both a defensive phantasm (warden) and a phantasm twirling around crippling enemies,
    I agree - I quite enjoyed mixing and matching phantasms based around what I wanted to do. When fighting a group it was nice launching different things to different targets...made for very engaging game-play - I'd hate to see that potential removed.

    ---------- Post added 2012-06-12 at 06:14 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    You could do that, but it will still be a summon and forget thing, not really interactive and what if you need a clone? What if you need a shatter and wasted that oh so awesome phantasm over a clone.

    Phantasms will always be too good to shatter( BWE2 ), or just not good at all that they are no better then clones and you just use them for shatter and not their effect (BWE1).

    Its better just to separate the 2.
    I agree that phantasms are often too good to shatter - I just don't follow that the best solution is to therefore limit the number of phantasms.

  8. #1008
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    I have to agree with Zito, it's extremely frustrating with the current design. I don't necessarily think his solution is flawless, but I count it as "putting all your eggs in one basket" to push the shatter button and watch every single illusion shatter. Why can't you choose to shatter specific ones? Only because of the UI design?
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  9. #1009
    Personally I think the whole Shatter mechanic needs a rethink. Sure there are times when the shatter effects are useful but 99.9% of the time I'd rather just have the illusion alive to confuse my enemy.

    Sadly I can't really think of an alternative so I'm not a whole lot of use :<

  10. #1010
    I feel like greatsword damage needs a buff. Also think berserker phantasm needs a rework immensely. It just does a whirl attack every few seconds and any fuckwit with at least 1 chromosome can get away from it making it fuck all useless. Arenanet is trying to be creative for the sake of creativity with the illusions and it's making it tedious and craptastic in the process. My rant is done.

  11. #1011
    The Lightbringer Durzlla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    I have to agree with Zito, it's extremely frustrating with the current design. I don't necessarily think his solution is flawless, but I count it as "putting all your eggs in one basket" to push the shatter button and watch every single illusion shatter. Why can't you choose to shatter specific ones? Only because of the UI design?
    The point of shatters is to flip the table over when the enemy starts to figure out what's going on, or in other word you get to 3 illusions and want to create more just shatter and start pumpin em out again, you people just aren't very creative...

    ---------- Post added 2012-06-12 at 05:48 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Roggles View Post
    I feel like greatsword damage needs a buff. Also think berserker phantasm needs a rework immensely. It just does a whirl attack every few seconds and any fuckwit with at least 1 chromosome can get away from it making it fuck all useless. Arenanet is trying to be creative for the sake of creativity with the illusions and it's making it tedious and craptastic in the process. My rant is done.
    Once again, you're not being creative (god you mesmers... Disgraceful!) so what if it misses? You know what you're doing? You're forcing them to move away from it, if you're up against Melee stay near your berserker and watch their hesitation to go near you! God it's delicious! And if you're against range they wot be able to get off many channeled abilities or stay in a favorable position for long without taking a hit or expending dodge.
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  12. #1012
    Quote Originally Posted by Durzlla View Post
    The point of shatters is to flip the table over when the enemy starts to figure out what's going on, or in other word you get to 3 illusions and want to create more just shatter and start pumpin em out again, you people just aren't very creative...
    After an entire weekend of WvWvW there wasn't a single time where the shatter effect on an enemy would have been more useful than having that illusion still alive, so it's not about lack of creativity at all. Sure, when 1 on 1 against a good enemy who keeps track of and doesn't attack your illusions it is useful to shatter them, but that's really not that often.

  13. #1013
    The problem with Zito's idea (especially if you buff up the phantasams) is you're not making a choice at that point, it's you use your phantasam for offense AND get to keep the defense of your clones
    There is no offense of clones outside shatters, and 2 of the 4 is survivability and 1 of the offensive is garbage and mind wreck aint that great either.

    The point of shatters is to flip the table over when the enemy starts to figure out what's going on
    If shatters did that, we wouldn't have a problem. It's not a lack of creativity, its limitations of the class and shatters don't do what you are saying.
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  14. #1014
    It feels like arenanet nerfed the clone damage then forgot to actually buff the mesmer abilities to compensate.

  15. #1015
    Quote Originally Posted by Roggles View Post
    It feels like arenanet nerfed the clone damage then forgot to actually buff the mesmer abilities to compensate.
    They did not forget, John P already said an entire re-work is being implemented to make them viable, it just didn't make it to BWE2.
    Pokemon FC: 4425-2708-3610

  16. #1016
    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    They did not forget, John P already said an entire re-work is being implemented to make them viable, it just didn't make it to BWE2.
    Oh good. I'm praying phantasms become separate from clones. Also hope they nerf illusionary duelist. You might as well rename the skill "summon jesus christ" atm. Makes the other off hands feel pathetic and I REALLY want to be able to use off hand sword.

  17. #1017
    Quote Originally Posted by Roggles View Post
    Oh good. I'm praying phantasms become separate from clones. Also hope they nerf illusionary duelist. You might as well rename the skill "summon jesus christ" atm. Makes the other off hands feel pathetic and I REALLY want to be able to use off hand sword.
    Offhand sword needs a change, Iduelist wasn't that bad, 1 on its self is doable, you can easily kill it too which people think you shouldn't. Offhand sword complete garbage though.

    Sword duelist leaps at your foe then strikes, thing is after leaping your foe can move 1 foot and the attack completely misses, and block currently is just lackluster unless its the boon.
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  18. #1018
    I feel like the swordmans should just chase after the opponent like any mob instead of trying be a fancy grasshopper twat.

    ---------- Post added 2012-06-13 at 03:02 AM ----------

    I'm also hoping they do something to help clones and phantasms not die patheticall to aoe stuff. They could just give them a high damage reduction against aoe attacks.

  19. #1019
    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    They did not forget, John P already said an entire re-work is being implemented to make them viable, it just didn't make it to BWE2.
    Just curious; Source?
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  20. #1020
    Quote Originally Posted by Yoshimiko View Post
    Just curious; Source?
    Reddit Q/A

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