1. #1301
    The Lightbringer Durzlla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    The new change, you can not activate the secondary effects yourself anymore. It's an added effect if the initial effect does not work. So if you don't block anything it'll do the daze.

    Secondly offhand sword offers no niche compared to the others. Pistol has a ranged phantasm and stun/daze/blind, Torch has a confusion phantasm and a cloak, focus has a reflect phantasm and a slow/pull after it expires.

    Offhand sword? A melee phantasm you can easily dodge and has a run time (he has to run to your target) and does less damage then any other phantasm and a block which guarantee won't block the attack you want since combat is so fast it's hard to predict when to use it and not waste it, not to mention pistol has more control over that than this block and main hand swords blurred frenzy offers more surv then that on a lower cd.

    If block blocked everything for 2 seconds it would be useful, currently it's not. There isn't a silver lining right now. IMO scrap offhand sword and gives us the 1h MH weapon we actually need (we don't need 4 offhands with just 2 mainhands). The only 1h is scepter which is clone factory with its damage split between conditions and power and a melee weapon.
    OMG, zito for christs sake stop your constant bitching about things that aren't bad... 1) you're lucky you have a block at all, no other caster has that ONLY the martial profs and mes have that, and NONE of the blocks (other then ones with a shield minus the eng #5 skill) actually block more then one attack before doing the effect. 2) the riposte is purely defensive, it's not "Hey i'm going to use this as a defensive/offensive skill" like the ranger throwing their great sword for a cripple or the eng throwing their shield, it's more like with the warrior or guardian where it's "hey, either waste one of your attacks or you're going to regret it!" sort of a block. 3) the phantasam isn't bad, he has a leap for christs sakes, i know, the fucker jumped me when i was using whirling defense, went through a fire field causing me to get burned, and then leaped through a smoke field on his retreat gaining another one so i couldn't even kill it off without eating a burn. You could combine that with an etheral field for chaos armor, or a poison for weakness etc etc.

    Just because YOU can't manage to use a weapon or build properly doesn't mean it's bad/broken, and for the love of god stop saying confusion is bad, you're spreading misinformation EVERYWHERE, i did just fine with using confusion as a primary source of damage with my scepter and that wasn't even the goal of my build.

    ---------- Post added 2012-08-11 at 05:57 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Iryne View Post
    SNIP
    Ok, i looked through your build... i'm not 100% sure what your condition damage is... or what your goal with the build is... are you trying to deal lots of damage with conditions? Or do you just want to do larger direct damage with conditions to support it? I'm not entirerly sure what to do with your runes until i know more... personally i'm not a fan of the runes you chose (that's just me i like the special effects others give, not that those runes are bad).
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  2. #1302
    OMG, zito for christs sake stop your constant bitching about things that aren't bad... 1) you're lucky you have a block at all, no other caster has that ONLY the martial profs and mes have that, and NONE of the blocks (other then ones with a shield minus the eng #5 skill) actually block more then one attack before doing the effect. 2) the riposte is purely defensive, it's not "Hey i'm going to use this as a defensive/offensive skill" like the ranger throwing their great sword for a cripple or the eng throwing their shield, it's more like with the warrior or guardian where it's "hey, either waste one of your attacks or you're going to regret it!" sort of a block. 3) the phantasam isn't bad, he has a leap for christs sakes, i know, the fucker jumped me when i was using whirling defense, went through a fire field causing me to get burned, and then leaped through a smoke field on his retreat gaining another one so i couldn't even kill it off without eating a burn. You could combine that with an etheral field for chaos armor, or a poison for weakness etc etc.

    Just because YOU can't manage to use a weapon or build properly doesn't mean it's bad/broken, and for the love of god stop saying confusion is bad, you're spreading misinformation EVERYWHERE, i did just fine with using confusion as a primary source of damage with my scepter and that wasn't even the goal of my build.
    Block in general is pretty bad and other casters have things to survive better then block. You might wanna actually ya know try it out more and compare it to other offhands/abilities that generally give more survivability and I know ripitose is defensive, you didn't see my point.

    Other classes block btw has something more to it, rangers get a knockback engineers shield actually last 2 second duration and blocks everything for the duration their 2nd block does a knockback. We get a clone which isn't a whole lot outside shatters and a cloak.

    If the clones did an added effect I would be very happy, a knockback or an automatic swap place with X clone or even if the clone cloaks you to confuse the enemy.
    Last edited by zito; 2012-08-11 at 11:23 PM.

  3. #1303
    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    Block in general is pretty bad and other casters have things to survive better then block. You might wanna actually ya know try it out more and compare it to other offhands/abilities that generally give more survivability and I know ripitose is defensive, you didn't see my point.

    Other classes block btw has something more to it, rangers get a knockback engineers shield actually last 2 second duration and blocks everything for the duration. We get a clone which isn't a whole lot outside shatters and a cloak.
    Block can be really useful when used at the right moment, it can easily turn the battle in your favor when you block the right skill and it's actually an extra dodge with a little something extra added to it.

  4. #1304
    Anyone have some links to compendiums / builds? I'd love to do some more reading on different build styles for PvE and sPvP.

  5. #1305
    Quote Originally Posted by Gildarts View Post
    Block can be really useful when used at the right moment, it can easily turn the battle in your favor when you block the right skill and it's actually an extra dodge with a little something extra added to it.
    Though to block 1 attack it is extremely hard to time it just right to block the attack you want to block (even worse in PvP) and not just a simple attack1 and granted mostly everyone's elses block do something great to counter this (except for warriors and mesmer).

  6. #1306
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    Though to block 1 attack it is extremely hard to time it just right to block the attack you want to block (even worse in PvP) and not just a simple attack1 and granted mostly everyone's elses block do something great to counter this (except for warriors and mesmer).
    Example: You could block the Guardian Hammer #4.

    Smart usage of blocks will require you to have accurate timing like that anyways, or else people will recognize "Oh, he's blocking, I'm going to wait until he's not." The most skilled players in PvP will be the ones who can recognize the skills every enemy they run into is using, and will be able to react accordingly.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  7. #1307
    Quote Originally Posted by Octoberist View Post
    Anyone have some links to compendiums / builds? I'd love to do some more reading on different build styles for PvE and sPvP.
    Here are some very nice guides about all the profs for spvp for you:

    mesmer
    Guardian
    ranger
    Thief

  8. #1308
    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    Example: You could block the Guardian Hammer #4.

    Smart usage of blocks will require you to have accurate timing like that anyways, or else people will recognize "Oh, he's blocking, I'm going to wait until he's not."
    The animation for that is a quick 1 second, to get a block off in time for that and not accidentally block a useless attack that can come from another player or mob is low. It's not accurate timing when animations are that fast, its just luck.

    http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Block

    List of all the blocks. Tell me warriors and mesmer are not shafted? (warriors have one good block)
    Last edited by zito; 2012-08-11 at 11:37 PM.

  9. #1309
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    The animation for that is a quick 1 second
    Point? You have to have quick reflexes to survive in this game. Luck can be a part of it, but quick reflexes and a quick-thinking mind is going to be what gives you the edge. You might note in the following video that he successfully dodges such a skill simply through recognizing the animation.

    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  10. #1310
    Point? You have to have quick reflexes to survive in this game. Luck can be a part of it, but quick reflexes and a quick-thinking mind is going to be what gives you the edge. You might note in the following video that he successfully dodges such a skill simply through recognizing the animation.
    Point taken. Then lets turn all blocks that have great secondary effects into mesmer/warrior ones that only block 1 attack. Fair no?

  11. #1311
    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    The new change, you can not activate the secondary effects yourself anymore. It's an added effect if the initial effect does not work. So if you don't block anything it'll do the daze.
    Uh, this is blatantly false. I was pulling it off all Stress Test.
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  12. #1312
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    Point taken. Then lets turn all blocks that have great secondary effects into mesmer/warrior ones that only block 1 attack. Fair no?
    I dunno. The other side of the coin, that I specifically like with this Block, is that you can choose to cancel the Block and instead Daze. A part of me wishes it was just a plain Daze, I will admit, rather than being both.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  13. #1313
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post
    Uh, this is blatantly false. I was pulling it off all Stress Test.
    Mine, for the life of me did not work, or possibly was the visual. Though I strictly remember it not working in BWE3

  14. #1314
    The Lightbringer Durzlla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    The animation for that is a quick 1 second, to get a block off in time for that and not accidentally block a useless attack that can come from another player or mob is low. It's not accurate timing when animations are that fast, its just luck.

    http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Block

    List of all the blocks. Tell me warriors and mesmer are not shafted? (warriors have one good block)
    oh yes, 1 second is soooooooooooooooo short, is that why people got into the habbit of interrupting 1/4 second casts regularly in GW1? cause idk about you but i can sure as hell block an ability that has a 1 second, or hell even a half a second animation. And no, warriors and mesmers are not shafted you just bitch to much to know how good the block actually is, and warriors get adrenaline, that's really good for them, you get a clone, if you were in a HUGE pinch you could just shatter that on the spot for a distortion/diversion and essentially block/avoid 2 attacks.

    And you were totally wrong on the eng blocks btw, #4 block ONLY blocks projectiles (it's essentially a shorter whirling defense) and when it ends it knocks people back, the second block stops them from boomeranging the shield and getting off 2 dazes by blocking an attack and getting 1 daze.

    ---------- Post added 2012-08-11 at 06:46 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    Point taken. Then lets turn all blocks that have great secondary effects into mesmer/warrior ones that only block 1 attack. Fair no?
    God how do you not READ? seriously!! ONLY SHIELDS BLOCK FOR THE FULL DURATION, even then the warrior shield is the only one that actually blocks both melee and ranged, sure rangers have whirling defense, but that's 100% useless against melee, same with the eng #4 shield block, and 4 of the guardians blocks.
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  15. #1315
    And you were totally wrong on the eng blocks btw, #4 block ONLY blocks projectiles (it's essentially a shorter whirling defense) and when it ends it knocks people back, the second block stops them from boomeranging the shield and getting off 2 dazes by blocking an attack and getting 1 daze.
    Makes no difference to my point. An interrupting 1/4 second casts? That's possible if you had a pre-debuff which interrupted the next cast if you are speaking purely interrupts and not stuns/CC

  16. #1316
    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    Though to block 1 attack it is extremely hard to time it just right to block the attack you want to block (even worse in PvP) and not just a simple attack1 and granted mostly everyone's elses block do something great to counter this (except for warriors and mesmer).
    It's actually quite easy once you get to know all of the animations and weapons of all the professions, I found that the most powerful skills are also the most easy to recognize in a fight you just got to find out what you are looking for.

    but I don't quite see why you think the mesmer's block is worth less then the other blocks like Illusionary Riposte you get a daze which is really powerful if you chain a stun or another diversion(daze) behind it.
    Or if you use a scepter first you get a clone and then with the counter you give him a blind letting him miss the next attack 2 and then you can blow up your created clone to keep him from using skills some more. I actually think this is quite superior to a simple knockback

  17. #1317
    but I don't quite see why you think the mesmer's block is worth less then the other blocks like Illusionary Riposte you get a daze which is really powerful if you chain a stun or another diversion(daze) behind it.
    My main beef was they were not properly working for me BWE3 and stress test 3-2 (after bwe3 second test). Non of my chain skills like block were working and neither was curtains pull, though curtains pull worked after the thing expired. The daze and blind is nice. The block with clone summoning has limited uses, if block did something else besides a clone it would imo break even with other blocks.

    I'd rather have scepters block blind after you get hit a long with a clone and riptose to daze after hit. Or just block more then one attack, because when you are being group beat up its hard to block the attack you want.
    Last edited by zito; 2012-08-11 at 11:54 PM.

  18. #1318
    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    Mine, for the life of me did not work, or possibly was the visual. Though I strictly remember it not working in BWE3
    I worked it in BWE, and both of the following stress tests. I like to mess around with the Sword as a sub-par offhand because timing that block, learning what I should/shouldn't be using it on is going to be a godsend. If only it was on a slightly shorter cooldown... Hmm, I need to test to see if the traits that drop 1h sword also drop off-hand sword as well.

    And Pistol Phantasm may be more burst, but they take a lot longer to wind up (great for PvP burst) whereas the Sword Phantasm not only has 100% Jump-Combo interaction (Duelist has 20% basic projectile), its got a much higher swing rate.


    But no, the one complaint I had for the offhand sword block not being a full two seconds was without realizing just how ridiculously Overpowered that would be, giving Mesmers not one but two separate but not competing 2-second-invulnerabilities. What Warriors don't have is Blurred Frenzy. We do. I've shifted that into a slightly lower cooldown on the Riposte, but that's personal opinion more than a necessity.
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  19. #1319
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    It's worth noting that the Daze affects foes in a line, rather than just one target. Hrmm...
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  20. #1320
    if block did something else besides a clone it would imo break even with other blocks.
    the counter gives a blind in a line that's quite powerful.
    I actually had quite a funny experience with this skill where a mesmer tried to shatter he's clones on me the moment I used this the shatter failed

    but I didn't really notice that much problems with the block, I did notice sometimes that the block missed on occasions but that might have been lagg so I am not really going 2 much further on that since it's a beta and a stress test.

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