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  1. #1741
    Blademaster ayimera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post
    You're telling me three duelists pouring into a target every few seconds will do less damage than Mind Wrack? I doubt that. Short term, of course Mind Wrack wins. But if you can get the motion going, I daresay that it's only a matter of time keeping the Phantasms alive before they start to pull ahead (without sacrificing a defensive minded cooldown's accessibility).

    Treating them as nothing more than bombs is giving up so much of the class' tookit for a cheap source of mediocre damage.
    I usually do the bomb method with your typical average single mob. I've been relying heavily on staff/gs combo, but I will take your advice and try out this tactic. Thanks!
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  2. #1742
    Quote Originally Posted by Boatking View Post
    I'm trying to enjoy my mesmer but it feels so weak compared to my guardian. Mesmer = kite for half an hour until the mob finally dies. Guardian = press random abilities, everything's dead. I'm currently using a greatsword which has absolutely horrible autoattack damage, and a scepter/pistol. The scepter also has horrible damage. What's the trick to doing decent damage as a mesmer?
    First off. youre doing something wrong. greatsword has SO much damage potential. i run greatsword/staff and i wreck shit. u have to have a good combo, remember to use ur shatters. Honestly the mesmer is one of those classes that has a lot to offer, and most arent willing to work to unlock its amazing potential. just as u said, get on ur guardian, hit random buttons, profit.

    I myself enjoy having to put a little thought in to how i play my class. thats why i picked the mesmer.

    And as for scep/pistol. the damage is there too. i dont think its as good as other combos but its nice to get those free illusions and the confuse stack. i dont know what ur spec is, or what ur doing but there is somethin goin on there =/. Maybe u should just play ur guardian! dont force urself to like a class. I swore i would play a guardian on release. tried it, and was underwhelmed. theyre very aesthetically pleasing, but they just didnt do it for me and i tried so hard to like it, but i just couldnt. and thats when i feel in love with the mesmer class =P
    "Grammar is important. Capitalization is the difference between helping your Uncle Jack off a horse & helping your uncle jack off a horse."

  3. #1743
    Quote Originally Posted by Andyclan View Post
    And as for scep/pistol. the damage is there too. i dont think its as good as other combos but its nice to get those free illusions and the confuse stack.

    Scepter/Pistol is more for condition builds. Watching those big warriors/guardians kill themselves in 2-3 skill uses is funny. Takes a little setup, but it's relatively easy to get confusion stack to 15+
    Last edited by The Cat; 2012-09-10 at 03:14 PM.

  4. #1744
    Quote Originally Posted by Andyclan View Post
    First off. youre doing something wrong. greatsword has SO much damage potential. i run greatsword/staff and i wreck shit. u have to have a good combo, remember to use ur shatters. Honestly the mesmer is one of those classes that has a lot to offer, and most arent willing to work to unlock its amazing potential. just as u said, get on ur guardian, hit random buttons, profit.

    I myself enjoy having to put a little thought in to how i play my class. thats why i picked the mesmer.

    And as for scep/pistol. the damage is there too. i dont think its as good as other combos but its nice to get those free illusions and the confuse stack. i dont know what ur spec is, or what ur doing but there is somethin goin on there =/. Maybe u should just play ur guardian! dont force urself to like a class. I swore i would play a guardian on release. tried it, and was underwhelmed. theyre very aesthetically pleasing, but they just didnt do it for me and i tried so hard to like it, but i just couldnt. and thats when i feel in love with the mesmer class =P

    Good combo?

    I run Staff+GS Might build and agree its a great build for all parts of the game and against any build.

    Staff 1 x2
    Staff 3 -Phanta-
    Staff 2 -Illusion
    Staff 4 when I will take some hits
    Staff 5 down on CD
    Switch to GS
    GS 2 -Might stacking
    GS 4 -Phanta
    ...and so on

    Might stacks go up super fast and when they are up stuff just melts so fast.

    http://gw2skills.net/editor/en/?fgQQ...rOuuk6sEZIyWEA

  5. #1745
    I don't mean to sound like a dipshit but wtf is a combo? I just mash the buttons I think are good in the situation I.E i'll drop a warlock ->insta mirror image/decoy/phase retreat for the 2nd/3rd images. Staff->swap to Sword and 332.

  6. #1746
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Langy View Post
    I don't mean to sound like a dipshit but wtf is a combo? I just mash the buttons I think are good in the situation I.E i'll drop a warlock ->insta mirror image/decoy/phase retreat for the 2nd/3rd images. Staff->swap to Sword and 332.
    http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Combo
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  7. #1747
    Quote Originally Posted by Maarius View Post
    hey, I love your replies, really got me thinking

    Can you link me your Staff-Sword/? build please? How does this work out, which stats are you priotizing? Staff would go with conditions I guess, + the Chaotic Dampening (Chaos 25) and Illusionary Elasticy (Illusions 20) which only leaves 25 points. Those in Power for the Sword-punch + stronger Phantasms? Condition Damage + Power + Toughness?
    I can't link my build (which is a variation of Zito's "full melee!" build a few pages ago), because I'm at work. I'll get back to you on this one in a couple hours

    As for Gearing priorities, it's pretty much Power/Precision > Toughness > Vitality for me. With Sword as my primary, I need to be able to take a few hits. Generally I like Precision a little more than Power because I already hit harder with my sword than a ranged person by default, and crits keep up Vigor (as well as Illusion crits propping up a bleed). Because I use the Staff as a defensive weapon, the Toughness helps quite a bit.

    I don't waste stats on Condition Damage for Staff though. The purple blob of Winds of Chaos(1) doesn't scale with it, only the RNG debuffs that may or may not actually do damage (condition damage does nothing for Vulnerability for example). And stacking it in the hopes of my Phase Retreat(2) being able to put up Burning more often felt really lameduck. My Warlock(3) on the other hand doesn't scale at all with Condition Damage. It wants Power, and more unique seperate debuffs. It doesn't matter if these debuffs do damage, or who they originated from. If I have a full set of debuffs from a well rounded group (or any EDE chain with more than 4 people), that Warlock is pumping out some serious damage, with no +Condition, only Power.

    And of course, my sword is desperate to get into bed with any and all power (hot like redheads), so it's nice to have one stat priority that flows well from one weapon to another. It's not quite a intuitive as say Greatsword being a Power weapon, because people see DoTs and think "omg condition weapon" but there's actual basis in wanting to go Power Staff, and it works

    Again, I'll get you my build in a couple hours when I'm home for lunch
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
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  8. #1748
    I'm getting really bored of my staff except for Chaos Storm. I'm not really fond of the scepter either but I think I'll try it out for a bit.

  9. #1749
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post
    You're telling me three duelists pouring into a target every few seconds will do less damage than Mind Wrack? I doubt that. Short term, of course Mind Wrack wins. But if you can get the motion going, I daresay that it's only a matter of time keeping the Phantasms alive before they start to pull ahead (without sacrificing a defensive minded cooldown's accessibility).

    Treating them as nothing more than bombs is giving up so much of the class' tookit for a cheap source of mediocre damage.
    Now let me ask you this: How long does it take to put up 3 duelists without any of them getting killed? Its a 15 sec CD, so altogether you would need a minimum of 45 seconds and a couple prayers to get 3 ups. Meanwhile you could have launched at least 4 Mind Wracks. Now this is with base CDs, but we have an entire trait line dedicated to reducing Shatter CDs by up to 300%, so you could probably launch quite a lot, while the "Clone on dodge" trait allows you to launch them as soon as the CD is up.

    So your calculation is wrong. Its not 3 duelists vs 1 mind wrack. Its 3 duelists (maybe) against at least 6+ mind wracks. Also keep in mind that Jihad builds have quite a lot of flexibility by giving you the power to launch daze/distortion/confusion bombs whenever they are needed without worrying about your phantasm CDs.

    The class has quite a big toolkit, and phantasms are not the only part of it. Phantasm builds are great, but they arnt the only thing we can do :P

    EDIT: also keep in mind that phantasms builds cannot use many skills with clone generation, as they would over-right, effectively cutting into their utility as well.
    Last edited by Nikijih; 2012-09-10 at 05:26 PM.

  10. #1750
    ill try putting subtitles later, but for now in this vid we can see the use of the Portal ability, wich is extrem OP for torneys.
    Last edited by Hayna; 2012-09-10 at 09:42 PM.

  11. #1751
    Quote Originally Posted by Hayna View Post
    ill try putting subtitles later, but for now in this vid we can see the use of the Portal ability, wich is extrem OP for torneys.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikoEDYFEq2E
    holy lag, batman!

  12. #1752
    Dreadlord Ninaran's Avatar
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    So, about Phantasmal Healing.. does anybody else think that the radius is much too short? Especially when you're "lucky" and the Phantasms spawn quite some distance away from you, not getting the initial pulse and thus not getting regeneration. You'll have to not shatter for 10 seconds (or hope that they're not destroyed in the meantime) to get anything out of it. :/

    Edit: Scrap that, there is no initial tick. Again another case of bad tooltips. Why not just say "Phantasms grant regeneration to nearby allies after 10 seconds." And why don't they say how long the regeneration lasts, and.. urgh. *frustrated*
    Last edited by Ninaran; 2012-09-10 at 07:12 PM.

  13. #1753
    High Overlord Avuun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ninaran View Post
    So, about Phantasmal Healing.. does anybody else think that the radius is much too short? Especially when you're "lucky" and the Phantasms spawn quite some distance away from you, not getting the initial pulse and thus not getting regeneration. You'll have to not shatter for 10 seconds (or hope that they're not destroyed in the meantime) to get anything out of it. :/

    Edit: Scrap that, there is no initial tick. Again another case of bad tooltips. Why not just say "Phantasms grant regeneration to nearby allies after 10 seconds." And why don't they say how long the regeneration lasts, and.. urgh. *frustrated*
    Yep that's one of the things that is annoying me quite a bit for a build I'm testing out. Though it's not working as I thought due to the delay.
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  14. #1754
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post
    Using a one handed sword, instead of a greatsword.
    What would you recommend for the offhand, pistol?

  15. #1755
    Quote Originally Posted by Nikijih View Post
    Now let me ask you this: How long does it take to put up 3 duelists without any of them getting killed? Its a 15 sec CD, so altogether you would need a minimum of 45 seconds and a couple prayers to get 3 ups. Meanwhile you could have launched at least 4 Mind Wracks. Now this is with base CDs, but we have an entire trait line dedicated to reducing Shatter CDs by up to 300%, so you could probably launch quite a lot, while the "Clone on dodge" trait allows you to launch them as soon as the CD is up.

    So your calculation is wrong. Its not 3 duelists vs 1 mind wrack. Its 3 duelists (maybe) against at least 6+ mind wracks. Also keep in mind that Jihad builds have quite a lot of flexibility by giving you the power to launch daze/distortion/confusion bombs whenever they are needed without worrying about your phantasm CDs.

    The class has quite a big toolkit, and phantasms are not the only part of it. Phantasm builds are great, but they arnt the only thing we can do :P

    EDIT: also keep in mind that phantasms builds cannot use many skills with clone generation, as they would over-right, effectively cutting into their utility as well.
    Actually, with a 15 second cooldown, it takes 30 seconds from start to finish to get 3 of them up. First at 0, second at 15, third at 30 (add in additional seconds for cast time, whatever). That's of course before you subtract the -20% cooldown reduction from the weapon spec trait, and then the -15% again from -Illusion Cooldown.

    10.2 second cooldown. You have 3 Phantasms plowing into something at full strength ~21 seconds into the game. Unless you're popping Mirror Images and burning your Endurance with the sole purpose of Jihad, you aren't getting 3 full strength Mind Wracks in 21 seconds (9 clones in 21 seconds without a Scepter is stretching it, even before limitations of the cooldown).

    But the calculation is correct, you're looking at the wrong point.
    Mind Wrack is short burst, and its damage output is less than 3 damage phantasms (Berserker, Warlock, Duelist, Swordsman, or dear gods that Warden) that are up. If you start the clock at 20 seconds instead of 0 seconds only for this half situation, Mind Wrack is already losing. So it's a matter of "how long do these need to stay alive for my total damage to outpace the guy that's been Mind Wracking from the beginning to now". That time is X seconds, but X is a very real number.

    Once everything's going, if I need to spawn a utility spell, or the one that pops up when I block (not a dodge clone), my cooldown for my Phantasm will either be up to replace the utility, be it a Disenchanter, Defender, Decoy, Illusionary Leap to cripple/immobilize/move me. The only thing I actually see a 3 phantasm build having trouble with is lolGreatsword (which begs the question why anyone is actually using this).


    As for Prayers to get my Phantasms up and going, they have quite a bit of durability between their already higher health pool, the Persistent Images trait, and potentially signet of Illusions (shame it was a bug, I liked their immortality ). Anyone running a Jihad build faces the same issue, the second that their clones die they have to delay a Mind Wrack because a 2 clone one just isn't worth it. It's lost damage as far as the cooldown is concerned.


    I'm not the one ignoring the tookit that Phantasms give. I see and acknowledge awesome use from Mind Wrack. I just don't think it's a button we need to be pushing on cooldown for anything except solo'ing easy mobs out in the world.
    Last edited by Kelesti; 2012-09-10 at 07:48 PM.
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
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    ~When you speak, I hear silence. Every word a defiance~

  16. #1756
    Gahhh either i'm playing extremely wrong or Mesmer is extremely squishy. I'm getting absolutely wrecked in group fights 3v3 5v5 etc and solo isnt much better... i'm not a scrub either gahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh this is really irritating.. Playing Sword+Pistol with Staff, keeping 3 illusions up, tryna keep los as much as possible and blending in when needed. I just get wrecked 24/7.

  17. #1757
    Quote Originally Posted by Boatking View Post
    What would you recommend for the offhand, pistol?
    Pistol, Focus (if you do, grab Phantasmal Haste in the Illusions Tree, dear gods), or Sword in the offhand. They all work well, do different things. I love the sword myself, that Phantasm moves rather than plants itself, and its attack is actually an Evade throughout the animation, not dying in melee range. Plus the block offers so much survivability that between it and Blurred Frenzy you can actually stay in melee range in times that most would be reaching for their ranged slot to keep up pressure.

    ---------- Post added 2012-09-10 at 01:50 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Maarius View Post
    hey, I love your replies, really got me thinking

    Can you link me your Staff-Sword/? build please? How does this work out, which stats are you priotizing? Staff would go with conditions I guess, + the Chaotic Dampening (Chaos 25) and Illusionary Elasticy (Illusions 20) which only leaves 25 points. Those in Power for the Sword-punch + stronger Phantasms? Condition Damage + Power + Toughness?
    This is actually close to the build I'm running right now: 0/20/20/15/15, swapping in Utility Spells as the situation changes (like Illusion of Life, Disenchanter, etc). I hope this helps with what I wrote up earlier.
    Last edited by Kelesti; 2012-09-10 at 07:52 PM.
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
    Now TESTING: ArcheAge (Alpha)
    Now PLAYING: MonoRed Burn (MtG Standard)
    Twitter: @KelestiMMO come say hi!
    ~When you speak, I hear silence. Every word a defiance~

  18. #1758
    Actually, with a 15 second cooldown, it takes 30 seconds from start to finish to get 3 of them up. First at 0, second at 15, third at 30 (add in additional seconds for cast time, whatever). That's of course before you subtract the -20% cooldown reduction from the weapon spec trait, and then the -15% again from -Illusion Cooldown.

    10.2 second cooldown. You have 3 Phantasms plowing into something at full strength ~21 seconds into the game. Unless you're popping Mirror Images and burning your Endurance with the sole purpose of Jihad, you aren't getting 3 full strength Mind Wracks in 21 seconds (9 clones in 21 seconds without a Scepter is stretching it, even before limitations of the cooldown).
    Haha i gotta agree you got me, my math isnt strong when im on Contact C ><. Ok so 30 seconds.

    But the calculation is correct, you're looking at the wrong point.
    Mind Wrack is short burst, and its damage output is less than 3 damage phantasms (Berserker, Warlock, Duelist, Swordsman, or dear gods that Warden) that are up. If you start the clock at 20 seconds instead of 0 seconds only for this half situation, Mind Wrack is already losing. So it's a matter of "how long do these need to stay alive for my total damage to outpace the guy that's been Mind Wracking from the beginning to now". That time is X seconds, but X is a very real number.
    What makes you think that you cannot continue mind wracking? Thats what I dont get: you seem to be under the impression that once your 3 phantasms are out suddently all clone/shatter skills go on CD. They dont. Sure things like Mirror has heafty CD, so you keep those for when you feel like you need a OSHIT button, but between both weapon sets and the dodge clones that is plenty to keep generating enough clones indefinitly.

    I'm not the one ignoring the tookit that Phantasms give. I see and acknowledge awesome use from Mind Wrack. I just don't think it's a button we need to be pushing on cooldown for anything except solo'ing easy mobs out in the world
    I am quite aware what phantasms can bring, as I play Phantank a lot myself. I am also quite aware what limitations they have, like, for exemple, they are very prohibitive to quick Daze/Distortion shatters. I am no dissing Phantasm builds or nothing, but you have to reallize that different builds will revolve around different elements. Thats like me putting everything I have into Condition Damage and saying you are stupid for not using a staff because any other weapon is weak in comparison.
    Last edited by Nikijih; 2012-09-11 at 04:32 AM.

  19. #1759
    bleh, i tried sword/pistol again and i still don't like it. greatsword/staff is just too good to replace
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  20. #1760
    ^ I don't like Greatsword much but Staff is awesome. I'm clearly playing wrong, or I just get unlucky with all the Thieves in SPvP, but I get destroyed every fight on my Mesmer. bah.

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