Mesmer Discussion Thread

[nighties]

For a spam attack that yes applies random conditions, its damage was pretty weak.

It takes a little more skill than just spamming 1 ability. Illusionary Warlock has great synergy with your auto-attack which has great synergy with your duplicate. All of which has a fairly low CD and is meant to used in every fight, not just simply spamming your 1.

[DrakeWurrum]

Ugh, Yogscast. "Look how little damage I'm doing!" *watches him just spam his autoattack and stay still while fighting* /facepalm

He didn't say "Look how little damage I'm doing!" while only spamming one attack.

He was demonstrating the change that blended the old bouncy skill with the auto attack, and commented "It doesn't seem to do much damage though."

That's not him saying that staff does very little damage, that's him saying that the staff autoattack doesn't do very much damage.

Very big difference.

[zito]

It takes a little more skill than just spamming 1 ability. Illusionary Warlock has great synergy with your auto-attack which has great synergy with your duplicate. All of which has a fairly low CD and is meant to used in every fight, not just simply spamming your 1.

That wasn't my point, I'm just saying for a spam attack 8 damage out of a 1k health pool is still pretty low even if it has synergy with other abilities, because other professions also have synergy.

[nighties]

He didn't say "Look how little damage I'm doing!" while only spamming one attack.

He was demonstrating the change that blended the old bouncy skill with the auto attack, and commented "It doesn't seem to do much damage though."

That's not him saying that staff does very little damage, that's him saying that the staff autoattack doesn't do very much damage.

Very big difference.

Actually, that's exactly what he said. 3:53 mark. While it's a no brainer that spamming only your autoattack doesn't do very much damage, you have to use more than one ability in any given fight to fully maximize your DPS. -_- and ffs dodge.

That wasn't my point, I'm just saying for a spam attack 8 damage out of a 1k health pool is still pretty low even if it has synergy with other abilities, because other professions also have synergy.

He seems to be fairly low level. I wouldn't be buggered about it when you can trait and therefor buff your condition damage later on.

[zito]

He seems to be fairly low level. I wouldn't be buggered about it when you can trait and therefor buff your condition damage.

Conditions are random, some can be useful in this situation like burn or bleed, but getting say crippling 3 times in a row will set you back.

8/1000 is too low of damage even with conditions. The initial damage isn't a condition btw.

[DrakeWurrum]

Actually, that's exactly what he said. 3:53 mark. While it's a no brainer that spamming only your autoattack doesn't do very much damage, you have to use more than one ability in any given fight to fully maximize your DPS. -_- and ffs dodge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdEvt...outu.be&t=3m5s

Orly? Because I watched the link that you quoted, which is what I just linked, before replying to you, and that's not what he said. His comment was specifically aimed at the staff autoattack because that's what he was demonstrating.

He doesn't say anything else about the staff after that because he's so giddy about shapeshifting at that point, which is the central focus of the video.

[nighties]

Conditions are random, some can be useful in this situation like burn or bleed, but getting say crippling 3 times in a row will set you back.

8/1000 is too low of damage even with conditions. The initial damage isn't a condition btw.

That's why you're a condition-producing-factory with the staves. With the change to your autoattack, and coupled with Duplicate/Chaos Storm, chances are you'll have more conditions than you'll know what to do with and dishing out moderates amount of damage. While I do agree your autoattack doesn't do that much damage in itself(I'm not surprised considering Staves are more tanky and their spells/trait tree reflects this), they're not meant for big bursts of damage. That's more akin to Greatswords.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdEvt...outu.be&t=3m5s

Orly? Because I watched the link that you quoted, which is what I just linked, before replying to you, and that's not what he said. His comment was specifically aimed at the staff autoattack because that's what he was demonstrating.

It's a poor use of the mechanics. The conditions that does damage, stacks in intensity. If you're not duplicating to get as many conditions off as possible, your autoattack is moot. So yes, it does fairly low damage on its own.

I'm also disappoint they failed to show the 4th ability, IW. Was really interested how much more damage you can do with 3 duplicates up, Chaos Storm, and IW.

[zito]

That's why you're a condition-producong-factory with the staves. With the change to your autoattack, and coupled with Duplicate/Chaos Storm, chances are you'll have more conditions than you'll know what to do with and dishing out moderates amount of damage. While I do agree your autoattack doesn't do that much damage in itself(I'm not surprised considering Staves are more tanky and their spells/trait tree reflects this), they're not meant for big bursts of damage. That's more akin to Greatswords.

Thats a cop out excuse imo, no I'm not expecting damage to be high like a greatsword. However synergy is shared between all professions so that's excluded. Conditions are nice yes but for an attack to do 8 damage out of a 1k health pool. That is fairly low. Unless that random condition is always going to be burn or bleed that does 200 damage a tick, it needs to be adjusted to like 50ish damage imo.

[nighties]

Thats a cop out excuse imo, no I'm not expecting damage to be high like a greatsword. However synergy is shared between all professions so that's excluded. Conditions are nice yes but for an attack to do 8 damage out of a 1k health pool. That is fairly low. Unless that random condition is always going to be burn or bleed that does 200 damage a tick, it needs to be adjusted to like 50ish damage imo.

Stacks-in-intensity. Duplicate Duplicate Duplicate.

[DrakeWurrum]

It's a poor use of the mechanics. The conditions that does damage, stacks in intensity. If you're not duplicating to get as many conditions off as possible, your autoattack is moot. So yes, it does fairly low damage on its own.

That's really all he was saying. He wasn't saying the staff, itself, was poor damage. He just said the autoattack doesn't do much on it's own. I'm pretty sure they would've found out why it's damage is poor if they played around with staff a bit, to learn the mechanics of the weapon as a whole.

---------- Post added 2012-03-26 at 07:10 PM ----------

Stacks-in-intensity. Duplicate Duplicate Duplicate.

From what I remember, if it stacks in intensity, it may as well just mean that it applies a separate version of the same dot, that ticks separately.

You apply burn, it lasts for 10 seconds.
5 seconds later, you apply another burn that lasts for 10 seconds.
In another 5 seconds, the first burn will wear off, and the second burn is still going for 5 more seconds.

[zito]

Stacks-in-intensity. Duplicate Duplicate Duplicate.

random random random.

[nighties]

That's really all he was saying. He wasn't saying the staff, itself, was poor damage. He just said the autoattack doesn't do much on it's own. I'm pretty sure they would've found out why it's damage is poor if they played around with staff a bit, to learn the mechanics of the weapon as a whole.

And that's what cheeses me. They're representing the class poorly and giving half-ass educated opinions like what I stated earlier.

random random random.

4 conditions a second with 3 duplicates up + you rolling out autoattacks. Combined with Chaos Storm. There's a certain RNG aspect of playing staff Mesmers that a lot of people will just have to get used to Besides, like I stated earlier, your nuke will be Illusionary Warlock.

[DrakeWurrum]

And that's what cheeses me. They're representing the class poorly and giving half-ass educated opinions like what I stated earlier.

I don't think it represents the class poorly at all to state the simple fact that the staff autoattack doesn't hit very hard. That just means the autoattack isn't big burst damage, and it's not like that's surprising.

I get what you're trying to say, but I think you're letting your opinion of Yogscast sully your perspective a bit too much. I don't like Yogscast any more than you do, but it's important to stay unbiased. And the simple fact is that, while they failed to go into extremely verbose detail to demonstrate the potential of the staff, that video wasn't about the mesmer - it was about racials.

They merely mentioned it in passing "Oh look, the auto attack changed. Huh, it doesn't seem to hit hard."

And on top of all that, this is beta... numbers mean diddly-squat.

[zito]

4 conditions a second with 3 duplicates up + you rolling out autoattacks. Combined with Chaos Storm. There's a certain RNG aspect of playing staff Mesmers that a lot of people will just have to get used to Besides, like I stated earlier, your nuke will be Illusionary Warlock.

You are missing the point entirely

[nighties]

You are missing the point entirely

Do you always retort to this statement when you can't back up your argument at all with any relevant information?

Yeah I don't like Yogscast at all. Curiosity got the best of me when someone mentioned autoattacks change. It's information like theirs that gets people thinking staff Mesmers are fairly weak with their autoattacks when that's not entirely the case.

[zito]

Relevent information? I don't know how many times I've stated this. Synergy between all professions is a given, you can do X more damage by doing YZABC with D. My point is 8 damage out of a 1000 health pool is too low(for this specific skill), yes conditions are nice if you can control them. The attack does a random condition still with me now? Yes bleed,burn and confusion is nice on its own but you have no way of controlling it to be a reliable source. For the scepter doing 8 damage out of 1000 hp is fine because it'll always stack confusion which is a nice controlled damage. However if if the move applies a random condition and the condition sucks for that specific moment, it should have something to fall back on and a minor damage boost can do that meaning 50ish damage is reasonable.

[nighties]

Relevent information? I don't know how many times I've stated this. Synergy between all professions is a given, you can do X more damage by doing YZABC with D. My point is 8 damage out of a 1000 health pool is too low, yes conditions are nice if you can control them. The attack does a random condition still with me now? Yes bleed,burn and confusion is nice on its own but you have no way of controlling it to be a reliable source. For the scepter doing 8 damage out of 1000 hp is fine because it'll always stack confusion which is a nice controlled damage. However if if the move applies a random condition and the condition sucks for that specific moment, it should have something to fall back on and a minor damage boost can do that meaning 50ish damage is reasonable.

Calm down. Synergy is important in this case because Staves Mesmer is fairly useless just spamming 1 ability. Your numbers are skewed a bit. 8/1000 is an understatement because that's just -one- condition ticking off. If you got multiple burns/poisons/etc proccing it'll be something like 20/1000 and that's before it stacks in intensity. Which you can easily do by having as many duplicates up. Like I said, 4 conditions a SECOND at your full potential. In PVP, Staves will rein superior than in PVE because every condition is good to have on your opponent, not just damaging ones.

The more you know :rainbow:

[Loaf Lord]

Why we gotta argue? Can't we just talk about our purdy purple butterflies peacefully?!

[DrakeWurrum]

Staves Mesmer is fairly useless just spamming 1 ability.

Useless statement that applies to every profession and every weapon.

[zito]

Calm down. Synergy is important in this case because Staves Mesmer is fairly useless just spamming 1 ability. Your numbers are skewed a bit. 8/1000 is an understatement because that's just -one- condition ticking off. If you got multiple burns/poisons/etc proccing it'll be something like 20/1000 and that's before it stacks in intensity. Which you can easily do by having as many duplicates up. Like I said, 4 conditions a SECOND at your full potential. In PVP, Staves will rein superior than in PVE because every condition is good to have on your opponent, not just damaging ones.

The more you know :rainbow:

Synergy between all professions is a given, you can do X more damage by doing YZABC with D.

yes conditions are nice if you can control them. The attack does a random condition

Other abilities have a CD

The more you know :rainbow:

10characters

---------- Post added 2012-03-27 at 12:37 AM ----------

Why we gotta argue? Can't we just talk about our purdy purple butterflies peacefully?!

Because people like to imply other people know everything to make them look good.