Mesmer Discussion Thread

[Futhark]

idiots who just want MOAR DAMAGE!! are thinking mesmers are broken because their clones aren't hurting.

I must be one of said idiots, because I just cannot figure this class out in PvE. I'm trying my best to make greatsword work, but I am just flailing around trying to get any distance between me and the mob because I'm not doing enough damage to kill it efficiently. My clones don't do jack, their shatters don't seem to be effective, and I need MoP always. I kill a solo beast and I am satisfied; if I take on adds, I am doomed.

I'm really pissed because I wanted a greatsword Mesmer to be my main. I switch to a staff Elementalist, destroy everything in my path, and wonder why it can't be like that when I play Mesmer. Totally acknowledge that it's just me, but it SUCKS.

[Deleted]

Funny thing about this BWE2 is that I positively loved sword+sword combo (PvE wise at least) which was the combo I thought I was gonna use the less. I mean, it felt (at least to me) that MH sword skills did much more damage than say for example scepter ones, plus the riposte is great when you figure out when/how to use it right (just pay attention to mob animations) and you also get 3 illusions out in no time at all that I was shattering straight away for more damage or to pop feast if you are low on health.

max range->swordsman->leap->swap after clone actually leaps into target->gash for vulnerability while mob it's immobilized from swap->frenzy for burst while being invulnerable and then dodge out...

I just loved it!

[Kelesti]

Greatsword seemed a LOT slower than BWE1. While having a fluid toolkit that's very intuitive, it doesn't really have the damage or the support of other weapons. As far as the clones, the Shatters I was using a lot more often this time were the daze to keep myself or my group alive, and Distortion for just me. I would only pull off a Mind Wrack if both of those were on cooldown for quite awhile, or something was just about to die and I'd lose them. Otherwise, I kept them up for the boost to healing, the ability to potentially soak a hit for me, and the other passive benefits they do (staff does debuffs, 1h/2h swords have snares, Phantasmal Defender splits my damage intake, etc).

The Phantasms themselves seem to be pulling most of their weight in effectiveness. The clones just look like you, but have the same effective output through Shatters.



Changing it up a bit, anyone try out the scepter? Did it change at all? I was too enamored with Sword/Sword, or later Sword/Pistol (especially in the Catacombs). Kiting as melee seems weird, but taking on triple Vets solo, you learn how to stay alive real quick (PvE).

[xxia]

I didn't play GW1, and I am no mesmer expert, but I can say I played it quite a bit over this BWE because I REALLY love the concept of the class. Unfortunately, in comparison to EVERY other class that I played mesmer took way longer to kill things... to the point of it feeling like a completely broken class. I have heard they used to be way OP, so I understand it's being reworked... was just unfortunate that it is more or less just a shell of a class at the moment.

[Deleted]

As this was the last profession we got in, you will notice it is probably still the roughest around the edges. We aren’t going to rework how the whole thing works, but you will see him get a lot smoother as we head towards release. This gives you a pretty big insight into our iterative process, but also requires Mesmer players to be a bit more patient. The feedback in here has been great so keep it up and we will keep working on improving your profession.
- Jon
source

Also about the changes here is nice site listing them: GuildWars2Mesmer.com. This is takem from there:

"You can see some of the changes in this clip from Gendarran Fields. It shows the scepter doing about 80 damage, the clones do 1 damage. The pistol phantasm hits for 200-400 damage in rapid succession. Mind Wrack does about 120 damage which is OK."

[VibrantViolet]

I definitely thought I was going to be a necromancer, but I changed my mind upon playing the mesmer. It was a lot of fun, even though they feel a little weak right now. Having a buttload of illusions was great, but my damage output-not so much. I think Anet needs to make the illusions a bit more "smart". They would just cast at nothing, or get stuck. I think if they only casted when enemies were in the area, especially in PvP, that would make it a lot harder for players to identify who the real mesmer was. The greatsword was definitely lacking, I found the sword/torch to be more effective, even the staff, because I could bring out the warlock illusion. I didn't die a lot in PvP, which was fun, I can escape very easily, but I can't really hold my own as far as damage. I am hoping Anet addresses this, I did make a post about it on the beta forums, and I saw others felt the same way.

[Deleted]

I definitely thought I was going to be a necromancer, ...

Same ^_^ Needed to update forum sig and stuff. Asuras <3

Btw, did you notice that portal now has "press F to use". It is bacause of this was posible:

[Durzlla]

I must be one of said idiots, because I just cannot figure this class out in PvE. I'm trying my best to make greatsword work, but I am just flailing around trying to get any distance between me and the mob because I'm not doing enough damage to kill it efficiently. My clones don't do jack, their shatters don't seem to be effective, and I need MoP always. I kill a solo beast and I am satisfied; if I take on adds, I am doomed.

I'm really pissed because I wanted a greatsword Mesmer to be my main. I switch to a staff Elementalist, destroy everything in my path, and wonder why it can't be like that when I play Mesmer. Totally acknowledge that it's just me, but it SUCKS.

I can't say about great sword on count of I used a staff and scepter/sword, but I'd say you just need more practice, once you get the hang of it you'll probably be manhandelung people like this one great sword Mesmer I found in PvP... God she just destroyed me every time...

[zito]

I still don't understand why they still have a merged cap on phantasms and clones. Everyone is complaining about how phantasms are just too good to shatter, and clones easily replacing them like scepter skill.

This weekend, phantasms damage was insane, at 80 PvP the pistol phantasm was doing 2k crits per shot, so around 6-8k per attack. Which is fine if there was only 1.

My suggested still stands, 3 clone limit, and 1 phantasm limit with a chain skill attached to it after it is summoned. This makes things like button mashing appear less, because now you have to pick, do I need more damage? Pistol phantasm, do I want more defense? Defender phantasm and put chain skills with it much like shatters but not.

Such as sacrifice your defender phantasm to create a wall that reflects projectiles and prevents foes from crossing.

[DrakeWurrum]

I still don't understand why they still have a merged cap on phantasms and clones. Everyone is complaining about how phantasms are just too good to shatter, and clones easily replacing them like scepter skill.

This weekend, phantasms damage was insane, at 80 PvP the pistol phantasm was doing 2k crits per shot, so around 6-8k per attack. Which is fine if there was only 1.

My suggested still stands, 3 clone limit, and 1 phantasm limit with a chain skill attached to it after it is summoned. This makes things like button mashing appear less, because now you have to pick, do I need more damage? Pistol phantasm, do I want more defense? Defender phantasm and put chain skills with it much like shatters but not.

Such as sacrifice your defender phantasm to create a wall that reflects projectiles and prevents foes from crossing.

Post that on the official forums dammit! Just copy-pasta that post directly into a new thread in Mesmer!

[zito]

Post that on the official forums dammit! Just copy-pasta that post directly into a new thread in Mesmer!

I did before, nobody liked the idea. They wanted more than 1 phantasm but yet to figure out you obviously had to buff them since you get 1 at a time.

[Durzlla]

I did before, nobody liked the idea. They wanted more than 1 phantasm but yet to figure out you obviously had to buff them since you get 1 at a time.

But then you're putting all your eggs in one basket where as with the current system I can have both a defensive phantasm (warden) and a phantasm twirling around crippling enemies, and there's a simple solution, don't make clones if you don't want to part with your phantasm! *GASP!* if only it were as simple as that!!

[DrakeWurrum]

I did before, nobody liked the idea. They wanted more than 1 phantasm but yet to figure out you obviously had to buff them since you get 1 at a time.

Very few methods of having multiple phantasms right now anyways, not counting weapon swaps. It seems fairly pointless to have multiple.

[zito]

But then you're putting all your eggs in one basket where as with the current system I can have both a defensive phantasm (warden) and a phantasm twirling around crippling enemies, and there's a simple solution, don't make clones if you don't want to part with your phantasm! *GASP!* if only it were as simple as that!!

You could do that, but it will still be a summon and forget thing, not really interactive and what if you need a clone? What if you need a shatter and wasted that oh so awesome phantasm over a clone.

Phantasms will always be too good to shatter( BWE2 ), or just not good at all that they are no better then clones and you just use them for shatter and not their effect (BWE1).

Its better just to separate the 2.

[Durzlla]

You could do that, but it will still be a summon and forget thing, not really interactive and what if you need a clone? What if you need a shatter and wasted that oh so awesome phantasm over a clone.

Phantasms will always be too good to shatter( BWE2 ), or just not good at all that they are no better then clones and you just use them for shatter and not their effect (BWE1).

Its better just to separate the 2.

The difference between me and you Zito is I'm a fan of chaos and have no problem at all summoning a phantasm to force change in my enemies play style and then shatter it as soon as they adapt and start bringing in clones...

However, that being said I do very much like the idea of phantasm chain skills, that would be cool!

[zito]

The difference between me and you Zito is I'm a fan of chaos and have no problem at all summoning a phantasm to force change in my enemies play style and then shatter it as soon as they adapt and start bringing in clones...

If they did that I wouldn't be saying anything, moving around your whirling phantasm isn't a change in playstyle. You just moved, like everything else.

[Durzlla]

If they did that I wouldn't be saying anything, moving around your whirling phantasm isn't a change in playstyle. You just moved, like everything else.

They usually dodge out of the way, expending their energy, and if they aren't adapting and keep getting slaughtered by it I leave it be! Btw dropping an illusionary warden and playing ring around the rosey with it has won me so many fights against people with no Melee weapon =D!

[Deleted]

I did before, nobody liked the idea. They wanted more than 1 phantasm but yet to figure out you obviously had to buff them since you get 1 at a time.

I actually really like your idea. I hope Arena Net possibly uses that idea, even if they add your chain idea to existing phantasms and they still share the 3 illusion limit, its still a great idea. Also its not too much of an overhaul so more likely they would make changes like that.

[Durzlla]

I actually really like your idea. I hope Arena Net possibly uses that idea, even if they add your chain idea to existing phantasms and they still share the 3 illusion limit, its still a great idea. Also its not too much of an overhaul so more likely they would make changes like that.

The problem with Zito's idea (especially if you buff up the phantasams) is you're not making a choice at that point, it's you use your phantasam for offense AND get to keep the defense of your clones, and if they did buff the phantasam to make up for not having multiple then the phantasams themself would just be to strong (i think earlier zito said the illusinary gunners would do 6k-8k damage per shot? that's more then an elite skill!)

[Deleted]

But then you're putting all your eggs in one basket where as with the current system I can have both a defensive phantasm (warden) and a phantasm twirling around crippling enemies,

I agree - I quite enjoyed mixing and matching phantasms based around what I wanted to do. When fighting a group it was nice launching different things to different targets...made for very engaging game-play - I'd hate to see that potential removed.

---------- Post added 2012-06-12 at 06:14 PM ----------

You could do that, but it will still be a summon and forget thing, not really interactive and what if you need a clone? What if you need a shatter and wasted that oh so awesome phantasm over a clone.

Phantasms will always be too good to shatter( BWE2 ), or just not good at all that they are no better then clones and you just use them for shatter and not their effect (BWE1).

Its better just to separate the 2.

I agree that phantasms are often too good to shatter - I just don't follow that the best solution is to therefore limit the number of phantasms.