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  1. #1901
    Quote Originally Posted by SirRobin View Post
    Rolled a female charr mesmer tonight and it was interesting. Had not done much with them before. Given that charr are the lowest rep race i think ill roll or reroll all my toons as charr.
    Don't forget to make it an Artificer, to be all the lowest representation things

  2. #1902
    Immortal SirRobin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jetstream View Post
    Don't forget to make it an Artificer, to be all the lowest representation things
    Yep

    Now I just need to get the naming thing down.
    Sir Robin, the Not-Quite-So-Brave-As-Sir-Lancelot.
    Who had nearly fought the Dragon of Angnor.
    Who had almost stood up to the vicious Chicken of Bristol.
    And who had personally wet himself, at the Battle of Badon Hill.

  3. #1903
    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    I still feel that my suggestion of making clone generation the mesmer "mechanic bar" and putting specific shatters onto weapons, would be a good move, for exactly all the things you just said in that post. Maybe not a perfect one, but a good one.

    Of course, it would also be nice if phantasms and illusions were completely separate, right down to having separate maximums that don't influence one another.
    THAT right there is the problem. The cloning mechanic just isn't very... well, good. I did up to 50 between the first 2 weekends, and did a ton of pvp, and hit 80 on live. The whole clone mechanic itself is what bugs me I think. I do feel that the shatters do something, it's the clones themselves that feel like crap. Maybe it's because they disappear after your primary target dies, I dunno. It just felt like every weapon ability on the thief felt like it did something meaningful (granted I only hit level 10 before I had to leave my house) whereas the Mesmer on most weapons feels like nothing happens unless you have some of the better clones up.

    So, as I typed the above, it hit me. Passive vs. Active. Mesmer can get away with being fairly passive on auto attacks, especially with staff/scepter since it gives pretty decent clone generation, as well as boons/conditions. Because, let's face it, once you get everything up, what's there to do? Almost nothing, unless you use a bomb build, and as Kelesti pointed out, the shatter treats them all the same.

    Maybe they want us to pick what types we'll use for various situations, similar to attunements. It may sound bonkers, but... What if they designed it around certain summons (includes anything that fills the pink dots for generality) being used for not being shattered. The more I think about it, it makes a little more sense. This will probably become a hefty wall of text, so I'll paragraph for each for ease of read.

    Phantasm They benefit from
    raits that buff our Phantasms and keeping them alive as much as possible (+damage to illusions, +health to Phantasms, Fury/Retaliation on Phantasms, Phantasms give Regeneration [and therefore Protection])
    In the Phantasm, we see the most damage from abilities, ie GS 4, where it does something very tangible while it lives, so it benefits the most from the traits that exclusively buff phantasms. Using this thinking, we should NEVER shatter a phantasm unless the situation is dire, because along with a fairly long cooldown, as well as the shatter assuming everything is the same, a phantasm will always do best while up. But when to use Phantasms? Personally, (using the GS 4 skill as "control") this phantasm doesn't do very good against single targets, it excels on AOE situations, with targets not dying instantly, so Phantasms are pretty decent for soloing when traited. If we continue down this, without traiting, Phantasms die fairly quickly if targeted, so it will always be best to summon them second-third in the summoning order.

    Clones Next is Clones. Summoned from more skills than Phantasms, these are lower statted versions of the player, that are fairly durable. There isn't any traiting into them having more health, just condition on kill and more damage while they're in play. They do create a good distraction in PvP when used right. Use of them can vary, from the dodge summon to confuse an enemy (not the condition) to any skill that summons them. The summon of a clone, is probably best done first, as they are more durable (naturally) than Phantasms, so they can take a little more punishment while the summon of an Illusion or Phantasm is done. Since we know shatters don't take into account what you shatter, a full Clone summon is probably ideal for any shatter situation, since there are a myriad of skills that will summon one.

    Illusions Last are the Illusions. These are very niche summons, that are fairly common. Niche in that there aren't any traits that make them really good, but there are a bunch of traits that buff them. There isn't much to say about the Illusions, as they are fairly independent of the character (in terms of damage). They are probably best summoned second in the summon set, as they need a decent amount of time to really do much good, so the clone needs to be up first. As with the Phantasm, Illusions aren't ideal for any shatter due ramp up times on damage (staff skills come to mind).

    All of my information (unfortunately mostly) comes from the wiki, but I feel that some skill descriptions and summons are wrong compared to the client. This wasn't meant to be an end all be all of a summon guide, more of thoughts after playing Mesmer almost exclusively, in a variety of roles. I also noticed while looking at the skills, Shatter skills aren't listed as shattering Illusions but I've always noticed them doing so. If it, along with a few other mechanic issues are truly bugged, and we've never noticed, maybe that's what the problem is with the class as a whole. As I kind of stated above under Illusions, they need some time to really do much good, thus the more passive buffing through traits. Well, if you read, thanks, it's probably the longest post I've ever done, so if you notice anything wrong (especially fact wise) feel free to point it out. I just felt that I needed to expand on what I (and a few others by the looks of it) feel is the most wrong with Mesmers.

    Edit: I've also never used colors in a post before, so I'm glad it worked.
    Last edited by Fenlnir; 2012-09-17 at 05:36 AM. Reason: The color pink worked
    <-- That is otterly adorable.

  4. #1904
    There isn't really an "Illusion" category. Illusions is both Clones and Phantasms grouped as one. Clones do zero damage (but sometimes have a debuff) and look like you, Phantasms are the transparent purply stuff.
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
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  5. #1905
    Deleted
    so im level 35 now on my Mesmer, and i have only just tried 2x 1h swords. its really awesome im bouncing around all over the place, evading/blocking nearly every attack. reccomend trying it to everyone, a nice change of pace from staff mesmer

  6. #1906
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post
    There isn't really an "Illusion" category. Illusions is both Clones and Phantasms grouped as one. Clones do zero damage (but sometimes have a debuff) and look like you, Phantasms are the transparent purply stuff.
    So it's a little ambiguous. When it says it summons an illusion, what does it really summon? I could go back and edit my post from last night, but I feel that it's solid enough. If Illusion is the general meaning, why not have the skills list an illusion summon as a clone instead? But I agree with Drake, that they need to be independent of one another, with a noticeable difference with a phantasm shatter, and a clone shatter. At this point, I'm more annoyed with terminology and semantics in the skill set. Maybe if they cleared that up, it would help in selection of what we should use for any given situation.
    <-- That is otterly adorable.

  7. #1907
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenlnir View Post
    So it's a little ambiguous. When it says it summons an illusion, what does it really summon? I could go back and edit my post from last night, but I feel that it's solid enough. If Illusion is the general meaning, why not have the skills list an illusion summon as a clone instead? But I agree with Drake, that they need to be independent of one another, with a noticeable difference with a phantasm shatter, and a clone shatter. At this point, I'm more annoyed with terminology and semantics in the skill set. Maybe if they cleared that up, it would help in selection of what we should use for any given situation.
    depends on the skill, illusion can mean either one. if i remember right, the word illusion is used in both clone and phantasm spells(not all of them) like warlock(phantasm) and illusion leap(clone) or whatever those 2 are called.
    i think they just substitute that word in for clone and phantasm to mix the word choice up a bit, i dunno.
    Battlemaster Ralamus (retired rogue)

  8. #1908
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenlnir View Post
    So it's a little ambiguous. When it says it summons an illusion, what does it really summon? I could go back and edit my post from last night, but I feel that it's solid enough. If Illusion is the general meaning, why not have the skills list an illusion summon as a clone instead? But I agree with Drake, that they need to be independent of one another, with a noticeable difference with a phantasm shatter, and a clone shatter. At this point, I'm more annoyed with terminology and semantics in the skill set. Maybe if they cleared that up, it would help in selection of what we should use for any given situation.
    Which abilities specifically say that it summons an illusion?
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  9. #1909
    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    Which abilities specifically say that it summons an illusion?
    the ones i can think of off the top of my head are warlock, illusionary leap, and swordsman. might be a couple others
    Battlemaster Ralamus (retired rogue)

  10. #1910
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralamus View Post
    the ones i can think of off the top of my head are warlock, illusionary leap, and swordsman. might be a couple others
    Ah. Illusionary Warlock has "Phantasm" as the very first word, to represent that it's a phantasm. Illusionary Leap has "Clone" as the very first word, to represent that it's a clone.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  11. #1911
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by SirRobin View Post
    Yep

    Now I just need to get the naming thing down.
    Considering that Charr are the Orcs of Guild Wars.. Bloodstaff the Destroyerbutterfly!

  12. #1912
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ninaran View Post
    Considering that Charr are the Orcs of Guild Wars.. Bloodstaff the Destroyerbutterfly!
    That's an insult to Charr everywhere.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  13. #1913
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    That's an insult to Charr everywhere.
    Aw come on, it's obvious as the sunlight that Charr are just furry Orcs

  14. #1914
    Yeah sometimes they're a little bit like WC2 orcs. But less stinky.
    Last edited by Mistral; 2012-09-17 at 06:10 PM.
    The advantage of the dreamer is that he never has to face the chains of reality.
    Blackhand[EU] - Mistral

  15. #1915
    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    Ah. Illusionary Warlock has "Phantasm" as the very first word, to represent that it's a phantasm. Illusionary Leap has "Clone" as the very first word, to represent that it's a clone.
    nope i just looked em up

    warlock tooltip = Summon an illusion that deals extra damage for each unique condition on the target foe. (phantasm)
    leap tooltip = Summon an illusion that leaps at your target, crippling them. (clone)
    swordsman tooltip = Create an illusion that attacks your foe. (phantasm)
    riposte tooltip = Block your foe and create an illusion when attacked. (clone)

    the phantasm ones say phantasmal in the name, but they still say illusion in the tooltip, which is what his point was i believe
    Battlemaster Ralamus (retired rogue)

  16. #1916
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralamus View Post
    nope i just looked em up
    Go into the game, or even check gw2skills.net/editor/en/

    The very first word, bolded and colored, is either "Phantasm" or "Clone"
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  17. #1917
    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    Go into the game, or even check gw2skills.net/editor/en/

    The very first word, bolded and colored, is either "Phantasm" or "Clone"
    right, but it still uses the word illusion in the tooltip
    Battlemaster Ralamus (retired rogue)

  18. #1918
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenlnir View Post
    So it's a little ambiguous. When it says it summons an illusion, what does it really summon? I could go back and edit my post from last night, but I feel that it's solid enough. If Illusion is the general meaning, why not have the skills list an illusion summon as a clone instead? But I agree with Drake, that they need to be independent of one another, with a noticeable difference with a phantasm shatter, and a clone shatter. At this point, I'm more annoyed with terminology and semantics in the skill set. Maybe if they cleared that up, it would help in selection of what we should use for any given situation.
    I agree. I think that each phantasm summon should have added benefits to its explosion.
    Phantasmal Warlock: On Shatter, deals # extra damage per condition on the target.
    Phantasmal Mage: On Shatter, grants retaliation to allies for # seconds.
    Phantasmal Duelist: On Shatter, sprays out a mass of gunfire, Bleeding the target, dealing # damage over # seconds.
    Phantasmal Warden: On Shatter, Grants Might, for # seconds, to nearby Allies, and Vulnerability, for # seconds, to nearby foes.
    Phantasmal Berserker: On Shatter, Cripples nearby enemies, reducing their movement speed by #% for # seconds.

  19. #1919
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralamus View Post
    right, but it still uses the word illusion in the tooltip
    My point is that it's not ambiguous. A Phantasm skill will summon a phantasm.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  20. #1920
    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    My point is that it's not ambiguous. A Phantasm skill will summon a phantasm.
    My largest issue with it, is mostly that when it says illusion, it doesn't say if it's a clone, or a phantasm, at least as far as the tooltip goes. Maybe I'm just annoyed that the mechanics (with Illusions) feel incomplete, as we've talked about.

    Know what I just realized? I knew what I was talking about, shouldn't have used the Wiki for any of the information. So... ignore the whole illusion thing from my other post.
    the phantasm ones say phantasmal in the name, but they still say illusion in the tooltip, which is what his point was i believe.
    That was it exactly, but as I said, ignore the whole Illusion thing, I read it this morning and should have just edited it out.
    <-- That is otterly adorable.

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