So lets hear about innovation past 50.

[Miah]

I keep hearing about there is nothing to do once you hit 50.

I also hear there is nothing new here in SWTOR, nothing innovative 2 months after launch. I want to hear what is innovative

I don't want to hear about bugs, it states right on the box before you take it to the cash register you may need to upgrade or PURCHASE a new computer to effectively play this game. I personally know multiple people that have experienced 0 bugs with computers ranging from 4 years old to new for this game with no bugs other than lag in Ilum in a 30v30 and up, it seems there is a problem here for most. Warhammer fixed it with collision but they didnt have quite the animation timers SWTOR does.

After 50, I PvPed to full set of Battlemaster, this was a goal of mine, this takes time.........alot of time even in premades and big Ilum battles. PvP gearing is RnG, to me this is innovating compared to others, frustrating at times, but none the less different than any other. Those who do their time will get the gear, They took out the being carried through arenas and rated BG aspects.

One thing I would like to see would be companions in Ilum if it too "one sided", Lets say there's 25 Imps camping mid, and 10 Pubs want some action, they can pull out their full champion companions and let loose.

People say there is nothing new here in SWTOR, we know there is, whether it matters in the end or not, there is differences in this game.

1. Light or Dark side

2. Workable companions you build relationships with, that participate in Professions, dumping grays, and assisting in Dailys.

3. Space missions, might be rail fights but they are fun, and can be difficult.

4. Decent character customizing from the get go, there is a lot of variety in the way people look and you can spot certain people by their "look" almost instantly.

5. Datacrons and Matrix shards, some easy, some not so easy, someone said these take a couple hours but getting the green matrix shard alone in Belsavis is close to 45 minutes alone. This is taking into account you know the flight path for the Rakkata Boxes and no one else is farming them. Anyone who has their +10 Stats Datacron knows good and well it doesn't take a couple hours to get your datacrons

6. Great leveling experience that promotes wanting to run a different faction Alt, the worlds are different, the class and bonus series mission are different, everything is different. Im not getting any of the talk that everything but the class quests are the same, they're not. There were Planets I completely skipped except class quests because I did every quest a previous planet offered.

7. The PvP in this game is different, it takes you some time to become good, If you just spam a couple buttons you will not survive, I have 24 keybinds on my Marauder and use them all if I want 400k Damage and want to live. I can NOT think of one skill I don't use at opportune times in a match. This does not include stims or relics

8. The Bonus series ending fights can be quite epic and feel almost like mini raids, I never experienced this feel in any other MMO, sometimes certain companions just don't work. Another innovation that's different, Your own healer/tank/dps to choose from.

9. PvP zones create a sense of urgency and proper group makeup, Huttball, love it or hate it takes a certain play style to win and unbalanced teams will lose. The pacing and size of huttball alone makes it innovative. You can end the match in 3 minutes if you're good enough ( and have 8 sorcs) Not sure what other MMO had a PvP match that could be ended in 3 minutes ever. Not even Warhammer.

10. PvP awards and MvP voting, if used correctly and honorably is completely different than any other MMO.

11. Raiding has stories which can be annoying after the first time but at least there is a "first time", Raid has a different feel to it as well including platformer type moving. It doesn't feel like you stand in one spot and spam away, move to the left a little, spam away, at times it feels new instead of Stack, move, unload cooldowns, spread out. I guess it just seems fun instead of boring. The visuals and dynamics of Lightsabers flying, bodies flying, it just seems cinematic as compared to raiding in other MMOs

12. No add-ons, for many this is gamebreaking, for me its a relief, I don't want deadly boss mods playing my character for me, I want to figure things out. No Vuhdu and bartender to spend 30 minutes re setting every patch. For me, this is refreshing, it's not innovative but welcomed by MANY.

13. Your players look dominating in action, I have heard people say my little female Sith Marauder makes them run fast and far away, by running a Jedi Consular I know now what they are talking about. You actually feel like your are getting throttled when you are, its almost like you feel the pain and hopefully you have saved some cooldowns to turn the tide which you actually can in this game, the balance is there if you play properly. There is no OP that's completely untouchable. Full Battlemaster and I still enjoy the graphics and feel of completely destroying the other classes.


As far as some innovations, I would like to see some Pod racing incorporated into PvP or Raids or something where you can purchase gizmos from a vendor to slow the other player, If they added something like this to Ilum or Tatooine I think it would help the faction vs Faction in a fun way

[Vegemeat]

Innovative is not a word used to describe what you listed. And battlemaster does take time.....for rep, imps got it by exploiting ilum.

[jvbastel]

1. Light or Dark side

Doesn't matter at max lvl

2. Workable companions you build relationships with, that participate in Professions, dumping grays, and assisting in Dailys.

only matters for dailies at max level, if at all.

3. Space missions, might be rail fights but they are fun, and can be difficult.

Fun minigame, but too repetitive (there's a very small amount of missions and even then half of them is rehashed. It feels like a game you'ld find on newgrounds.

4. Decent character customizing from the get go, there is a lot of variety in the way people look and you can spot certain people by their "look" almost instantly.

Character Customization is one of the weak points of the game, IMO, every race looks the same, in a franchise with massive variety between species this is disappointing.

5. Datacrons and Matrix shards, some easy, some not so easy, someone said these take a couple hours but getting the green matrix shard alone in Belsavis is close to 45 minutes alone. This is taking into account you know the flight path for the Rakkata Boxes and no one else is farming them. Anyone who has their +10 Stats Datacron knows good and well it doesn't take a couple hours to get your datacrons

It's good that BW rewards exploration. The sad thing is datacrons are basically necessary for min-maxers, even if they don't care for exploration. I can see how that could be a problem for some.

6. Great leveling experience that promotes wanting to run a different faction Alt, the worlds are different, the class and bonus series mission are different, everything is different. Im not getting any of the talk that everything but the class quests are the same, they're not. There were Planets I completely skipped except class quests because I did every quest a previous planet offered.

While levelling for the first character is amazing, and certainly one of the best levelling experiences I've had in MMO's (apart from maybe DCUO and GW1), the game isn't really all that alt friendly IMO. While the class content is magnificent, the side quests are usually awful, boring and repetitive.

7. The PvP in this game is different, it takes you some time to become good, If you just spam a couple buttons you will not survive, I have 24 keybinds on my Marauder and use them all if I want 400k Damage and want to live. I can NOT think of one skill I don't use at opportune times in a match. This does not include stims or relics

I don't see how pvp in SWTOR is any different from wow's. It's a gear grind, and newly dinged 50's might as well stand in the middle and do nothing. Class balance is nothing to write home about, but is not as important because there is only Battleground pvp. There is no option whatsoever for competitive players. Illum is a joke. Overall, SWTOR is one of the worst mmo pvp experiences I've had.PvP in SWTOR is as skill-related as it is in WOW. (not very)

8. The Bonus series ending fights can be quite epic and feel almost like mini raids, I never experienced this feel in any other MMO, sometimes certain companions just don't work. Another innovation that's different, Your own healer/tank/dps to choose from.

It's good that bioware promotes group play for levelling, innovative? Not really, every mmo has this. (except wow since cata)

9. PvP zones create a sense of urgency and proper group makeup, Huttball, love it or hate it takes a certain play style to win and unbalanced teams will lose. The pacing and size of huttball alone makes it innovative. You can end the match in 3 minutes if you're good enough ( and have 8 sorcs) Not sure what other MMO had a PvP match that could be ended in 3 minutes ever. Not even Warhammer.

Huttball is a really fun BG. It just feels like it was meant for either premades, or guild vs guild matches. So much untapped potential there. There are however a few problems. Knockback and stun are too important, and certain compositions are just auto-loss. I have no idea why matches ending in 3 minutes would be a good thing :s I had gvg's in GW1 end in 3 minutes, but that's not really comparable to huttball

10. PvP awards and MvP voting, if used correctly and honorably is completely different than any other MMO.

I like the idea of MVP voting, but as with a lot of things, people won't do it like it's supposed to. I hardly ever saw people vote, and if they did, they voted for guildies.

11. Raiding has stories which can be annoying after the first time but at least there is a "first time", Raid has a different feel to it as well including platformer type moving. It doesn't feel like you stand in one spot and spam away, move to the left a little, spam away, at times it feels new instead of Stack, move, unload cooldowns, spread out. I guess it just seems fun instead of boring. The visuals and dynamics of Lightsabers flying, bodies flying, it just seems cinematic as compared to raiding in other MMOs

I like them incorporating the conversations in raids and dungeons, but I feel the system doesn't lend itself to multiplayer that well.
Running BT was awful after the first few times, since someone always wanted to see the same damn conversations again ><.

12. No add-ons, for many this is gamebreaking, for me its a relief, I don't want deadly boss mods playing my character for me, I want to figure things out. No Vuhdu and bartender to spend 30 minutes re setting every patch. For me, this is refreshing, it's not innovative but welcomed by MANY.

There will be addons soon enough

Overall, I like what bioware did with the levelling in SWTOR. I just wish they had made it a brilliant single player game and not a mediocre MMO.

As for innovation, there's a decent amount of innovation, until you hit 50. Then there's dungeons, raids and BG's.

[Miah]

Innovative is not a word used to describe what you listed. And battlemaster does take time.....for rep, imps got it by exploiting ilum.

So whats innovative? Everything I listed is innovative as compared to any other MMO I have played since 1996. You say things are not innovative but fail to list what is innovative. I listed what I thought would be innovative and add to the PvP aspect anyway.

---------- Post added 2012-02-24 at 02:58 PM ----------

Doesn't matter at max lvl



only matters for dailies at max level, if at all.



Fun minigame, but too repetitive (there's a very small amount of missions and even then half of them is rehashed. It feels like a game you'ld find on newgrounds.



Character Customization is one of the weak points of the game, IMO, every race looks the same, in a franchise with massive variety between species this is disappointing.



It's good that BW rewards exploration. The sad thing is datacrons are basically necessary for min-maxers, even if they don't care for exploration. I can see how that could be a problem for some.



While levelling for the first character is amazing, and certainly one of the best levelling experiences I've had in MMO's (apart from maybe DCUO and GW1), the game isn't really all that alt friendly IMO. While the class content is magnificent, the side quests are usually awful, boring and repetitive.



I don't see how pvp in SWTOR is any different from wow's. It's a gear grind, and newly dinged 50's might as well stand in the middle and do nothing. Class balance is nothing to write home about, but is not as important because there is only Battleground pvp. There is no option whatsoever for competitive players. Illum is a joke. Overall, SWTOR is one of the worst mmo pvp experiences I've had.PvP in SWTOR is as skill-related as it is in WOW. (not very)



It's good that bioware promotes group play for levelling, innovative? Not really, every mmo has this. (except wow since cata)



Huttball is a really fun BG. It just feels like it was meant for either premades, or guild vs guild matches. So much untapped potential there. There are however a few problems. Knockback and stun are too important, and certain compositions are just auto-loss. I have no idea why matches ending in 3 minutes would be a good thing :s I had gvg's in GW1 end in 3 minutes, but that's not really comparable to huttball



I like the idea of MVP voting, but as with a lot of things, people won't do it like it's supposed to. I hardly ever saw people vote, and if they did, they voted for guildies.



I like them incorporating the conversations in raids and dungeons, but I feel the system doesn't lend itself to multiplayer that well.
Running BT was awful after the first few times, since someone always wanted to see the same damn conversations again ><.



There will be addons soon enough

Overall, I like what bioware did with the levelling in SWTOR. I just wish they had made it a brilliant single player game and not a mediocre MMO.

As for innovation, there's a decent amount of innovation, until you hit 50. Then there's dungeons, raids and BG's.

You must be on a server that doesn't cooperate very well or something, Ilum is fun as can be multiple times a day for us, we as Imps, let the Pubs Breath repeatedly as to not scare them off, we have also re-rolled alot of Pubs to even it out if need be. On our server we skirmish North to south, east to west and its very challenging and fun every day.

The PvP here is nothing like WoW from my experience, I cant think of one class other than commando that can spam and be effective. That being said, most of the People that Have geared in Battlemaster have learned how to fight so each fight is epic and usually comes down to the last second on who wins, Our server has extremely good PvP. Of course gear matters, thats why the strong protect the weak until they are geared. You can not duplicate a fully Battlemastered Marader v Maraduar visually or technically in any other MMO I can think of. I know I use every ability I have, Stim, relic included. I think Huttball brings out the skill better than any other game has come close too, not in the fact that you throw the huttball, but in the fact you better be positioned in the arena and have your cooldowns in check to prevent or assist in being productive. Every class has a role and if they fail the entire group fails. I find 2/3 Wzs innovative and fun as can be as a Full battlemaster, My adrenaline still pumps as a Mara

Im talking about Bonus questing for each planet when saying innovative and enjoyable, each Planet has one and if you break the chain you will not see them, they always end in a slightly epic battle that take the right companion and some thought as to how to complete it either by clicking an item before or after battling a mob, some take 2 players they are so challenging. Im not even talking heroic/Flashpoint or (area) , I'm talking the planets story line Bonus quest.

I have not seen the same quest once leveling a Jedi alt compared to my Sith Mara, Even taris is completely different in atmosphere and questing.

So what would you consider innovative, you say Bioware came up with nothing new, what should they have added thats new?

[Vegemeat]

Tracer missile would like to have a word with your commando spam.

[Miah]

Tracer missile would like to have a word with your commando spam.

They usually don't get the chance, and if they do, they are soon a pile of rubble. One of the easiest classes for me to destroy with my Mara, our interrupt is like 6 seconds? Maybe if more learned to use their interrupts and CC they would get better. I have cheesy CC and little to no problem keeping people the meat in my lightsaber sandwich

---------- Post added 2012-02-24 at 04:13 PM ----------

Ok, so we've heard No innovation now for 2 months solid..........people say its no more than any other MMO, say theres nothing to do past 50 ( but there is in other MMOs supposedly) and no one can establish what other MMOs have to do past max levels, or an example of something innovative. Just as I figured after 206 views. Now back to you regularly scheduled bashing of SWTOR without a shred of anything to back it up

[jvbastel]

[/COLOR]Ok, so we've heard No innovation now for 2 months solid..........people say its no more than any other MMO, say theres nothing to do past 50 ( but there is in other MMOs supposedly) and no one can establish what other MMOs have to do past max levels, or an example of something innovative. Just as I figured after 206 views. Now back to you regularly scheduled bashing of SWTOR without a shred of anything to back it up

Noone needs to prove anything here, SWTOR isn't really the most innovative game ever made, but that's ok, it's a decent game if you're into WoW/EQ/Rift type MMO's. It's the levelling where it shines. However, if it's innovation you're talking about, Look at games like TSW,GW2,TERA or archeage.

[Kouki]

Nothing listed here is new to any mmo before or after wow.
I know you don't want to hear it but this is my guild opinion, not just a list of bugs.

Quest Text is now voiced, you still have to read it if you for any reason cant hear, you still need to wait and listen to it or skip it and follow your map.

Lack of a combat log or damage meeter is going backwards, i can allow them to block addon support so no damage meeters get linked, but not having a combat log to read to find out why you died or how best to do damage is moronic.

Sound voids in the alderan combat bg, and the weird flight path of the speeder as it flies all over in a big circle before you get back into combat is really anoying.

Classes on each faction which are the same like Sage and Sorc get buffed and nerfed differently, thats totally stupid.

Grass The draw distance is much much less then the view distance, the grass is 2d sprites that always face you no matter what angle your camera is.
The grass draw has caused many people to get eye strain headaches and seizures, that in itself is bad enough to let the game die.

Too much time and money was spent on the VA and not on the development of the game systems servers and features like The yet unreleased past 50 leveling known as legacy in swtor or as planar atunement in rift.

Im sorry but for the moment it feels like a rushed xmas game with half the content on and half off like a beta you have to pay for, the game is just not ready and its sad but they will soon monitize the game lime mass effect 3 which is a total rip off in itself.

EA Has never launched a good mmo or been part of the development of a good one, its not bioware that is to blame dont get me wrong its EA.

[Darsithis]

Im sorry but for the moment it feels like a rushed xmas game with half the content on and half off like a beta you have to pay for, the game is just not ready and its sad but they will soon monitize the game like mass effect 3 which is a total rip off in itself.

I don't quite agree. Sure, there is less polish in some ways than more established MMO's, but there is still a huge amount of work that went into the game. It doesn't feel rushed, but it does feel like the QA was a little lax.

End-game content, however, is a bit lacking. I think they didn't anticipate the speed at which people would arrive at 50 in the numbers they have.

[Sumatran]

Innovative is not a word used to describe what you listed. And battlemaster does take time.....for rep, imps got it by exploiting ilum.

Which exploit are you talking about?

[Lathais]

I don't quite agree. Sure, there is less polish in some ways than more established MMO's, but there is still a huge amount of work that went into the game. It doesn't feel rushed, but it does feel like the QA was a little lax.

End-game content, however, is a bit lacking. I think they didn't anticipate the speed at which people would arrive at 50 in the numbers they have.

They knew people would hit 50 and get into the end-game content that quickly, they also had plenty of QA time with the betas, and most of the issues were reported then and not fixed until later. It was rushed for X-mas and that is evident by simple things like the lack of a combat log. They wanted a combat log, had one in in beta. It was buggy as all getup so they literally said, "we don't have time to fix it, take it out and we'll put it in later." That sounds like rush to me.

[Kouki]

I don't quite agree. Sure, there is less polish in some ways than more established MMO's, but there is still a huge amount of work that went into the game. It doesn't feel rushed, but it does feel like the QA was a little lax.

End-game content, however, is a bit lacking. I think they didn't anticipate the speed at which people would arrive at 50 in the numbers they have.

Well its nice to see we agree to some point enough that your not a scary moderator.

What about the mass exodus ive felt, first 2 weeks 25 min ques, now at the very most ive got 8 ppl on any given world.

I think the biggest issue is no server transfers, you can't say they need to wait till later for that, we need to manage population right from the start.

Traveling to many worlds to find enough ppl for something because no one hangs out on the station or no one is awake on your server is killing the game for me.

At the launch of the game i tried to find a server full of ppl in my relative time zone, however im in Alberta its not exactly east or west, and since the servers dont have a server time shown or anything how do you find one that is close to your time.

See in Zangarmarsh time its my local time same time zone, so when its night for me its night in game, by that mark i can judge when other ppl will be on as most ppl tend to play on servers close to their own time frame, the box itself may not really be in that time zone but the blade is set to that time.

How in swtor can you find out when your server is most active and least active on launch day, you just cant and my guild picked the worst server Thana Vesh.

For the moment ive had tons more fun with league of legends and until guildwars 2 comes out all i will be doing is lol and skyrim.

---------- Post added 2012-02-24 at 05:04 PM ----------

They knew people would hit 50 and get into the end-game content that quickly, they also had plenty of QA time with the betas, and most of the issues were reported then and not fixed until later. It was rushed for X-mas and that is evident by simple things like the lack of a combat log. They wanted a combat log, had one in in beta. It was buggy as all getup so they literally said, "we don't have time to fix it, take it out and we'll put it in later." That sounds like rush to me.

I Agree, What i hate the most about this rush, is they are waiting till after the 3rd month to implement the first major patch so ppl will need to spend another 15 bucks or a time card.

And that the most elitist people i know my old wow guild, that went into swtor will be right for once in calling it rushed or a beta you pay for, i really hate it when these guys are right and they are for once i hate it.

---------- Post added 2012-02-24 at 05:19 PM ----------

So whats innovative? Everything I listed is innovative as compared to any other MMO I have played since 1996. You say things are not innovative but fail to list what is innovative. I listed what I thought would be innovative and add to the PvP aspect anyway.

---------- Post added 2012-02-24 at 02:58 PM ----------

You must be on a server that doesn't cooperate very well or something, Ilum is fun as can be multiple times a day for us, we as Imps, let the Pubs Breath repeatedly as to not scare them off, we have also re-rolled alot of Pubs to even it out if need be. On our server we skirmish North to south, east to west and its very challenging and fun every day.

The PvP here is nothing like WoW from my experience, I cant think of one class other than commando that can spam and be effective. That being said, most of the People that Have geared in Battlemaster have learned how to fight so each fight is epic and usually comes down to the last second on who wins, Our server has extremely good PvP. Of course gear matters, thats why the strong protect the weak until they are geared. You can not duplicate a fully Battlemastered Marader v Maraduar visually or technically in any other MMO I can think of. I know I use every ability I have, Stim, relic included. I think Huttball brings out the skill better than any other game has come close too, not in the fact that you throw the huttball, but in the fact you better be positioned in the arena and have your cooldowns in check to prevent or assist in being productive. Every class has a role and if they fail the entire group fails. I find 2/3 Wzs innovative and fun as can be as a Full battlemaster, My adrenaline still pumps as a Mara

Im talking about Bonus questing for each planet when saying innovative and enjoyable, each Planet has one and if you break the chain you will not see them, they always end in a slightly epic battle that take the right companion and some thought as to how to complete it either by clicking an item before or after battling a mob, some take 2 players they are so challenging. Im not even talking heroic/Flashpoint or (area) , I'm talking the planets story line Bonus quest.

I have not seen the same quest once leveling a Jedi alt compared to my Sith Mara, Even taris is completely different in atmosphere and questing.

So what would you consider innovative, you say Bioware came up with nothing new, what should they have added thats new?

None of this is new.
Yes hutball is fun, unless you have no room for the ball on your action bar, i like the announcer, but the rest of pvp is dreadfully bad design, and ability delay really sucks in pvp.

They still use all the same stats as wow, even resiliance but they have 2 forms of haste and crit, and for some reason they stack power on all the sage gear, but sage want willpower over power.

They still use talk to npc with floaty over his head kill 10 mobs then bonus 20 and 30 mobs then hand in, thats not groundbreaking, and adding voice overs mostly alien btw is also not any different then reading first, especially if you cant hear in the first place, you end up reading then skipping and going to the map location.

They did get a bit unique on how they transmog simply remove the modifications from one item and put in another boom its transmoged.

Crafting being done by your pet seems neat, but then you realise your basically making him buy mats on the AH technically like what we do in wow on our twinks.
Buying mats on the AH to level faster (Yes i know he does not actually buy them on the ah).

The game does not use UMBRA 3 Occlusion Culling, this is a feature that only renders what is seen allowing what is seen to have more polygons.

Objects and npc's/mobs at a distance move really really slow or weird, like when you see cars or winged mobs in the distance skip and pause as they move.

The Grass is Sprites thats something ive not seen since mario 64.

Buildings you cant enter are 2d backdrops, most buildings in wow are actually you know buildings.
(Although the mage tower is the wrong scale and the inside is under sw).

I can go on. there is no innovation there is just a new skin on everything.

[Spellweaver]

After 50, I PvPed to full set of Battlemaster, this was a goal of mine, this takes time.........alot of time even in premades and big Ilum battles. PvP gearing is RnG, to me this is innovating compared to others, frustrating at times, but none the less different than any other. Those who do their time will get the gear, They took out the being carried through arenas and rated BG aspects.

You're comparing the PvP gearing up at the start of the game to the gearing up at the current stage of WoW.
Instead, try comparing it with the PvP gearing up when BGs where implemented in WoW. I'm pretty sure it took quite a while to get that Grand Marshal/High Warlord weapon. So there's no innovation there.

1. Light or Dark side

Good/evil side options have been in games for years.

2. Workable companions you build relationships with, that participate in Professions, dumping grays, and assisting in Dailys.

While I agree that allowing them to sell grays and letting them do crew skill missions is somewhat innovative (although it's a bit annoying that you can't craft anything yourself), building a relationship with a companion was already in some games before SWTOR. Mass Effect, for example.

4. Decent character customizing from the get go, there is a lot of variety in the way people look and you can spot certain people by their "look" almost instantly.

RIFT/WoW/Tera all have decent character customizing, this isn't exactly something innovative.

5. Datacrons and Matrix shards, some easy, some not so easy, someone said these take a couple hours but getting the green matrix shard alone in Belsavis is close to 45 minutes alone. This is taking into account you know the flight path for the Rakkata Boxes and no one else is farming them. Anyone who has their +10 Stats Datacron knows good and well it doesn't take a couple hours to get your datacrons

Treasures that can be discovered by exploring, nothing innovative. For example, RIFT has artifacts that can be found when exploring.

6. Great leveling experience that promotes wanting to run a different faction Alt, the worlds are different, the class and bonus series mission are different, everything is different. Im not getting any of the talk that everything but the class quests are the same, they're not. There were Planets I completely skipped except class quests because I did every quest a previous planet offered.

While the levelling experience is great, most of the non-class quests -are- the same. If you level, for example, a Sith Inquisitor and a Bounty Hunter, the only worlds that will have different non-class quests is the world you start on. (Korriban/Hutta)

7. The PvP in this game is different, it takes you some time to become good, If you just spam a couple buttons you will not survive, I have 24 keybinds on my Marauder and use them all if I want 400k Damage and want to live. I can NOT think of one skill I don't use at opportune times in a match. This does not include stims or relics

This would only be innovative if the pvp in every game before SWTOR was just spamming a couple buttons.

11. Raiding has stories which can be annoying after the first time but at least there is a "first time", Raid has a different feel to it as well including platformer type moving. It doesn't feel like you stand in one spot and spam away, move to the left a little, spam away, at times it feels new instead of Stack, move, unload cooldowns, spread out. I guess it just seems fun instead of boring. The visuals and dynamics of Lightsabers flying, bodies flying, it just seems cinematic as compared to raiding in other MMOs

A raid that has a story? Wow, that truely is innovative. If only other games before SWTOR had raids with a story. /sarcasm

12. No add-ons, for many this is gamebreaking, for me its a relief, I don't want deadly boss mods playing my character for me, I want to figure things out. No Vuhdu and bartender to spend 30 minutes re setting every patch. For me, this is refreshing, it's not innovative but welcomed by MANY.

There's no addons because they haven't finished working on the API yet. Once they finish and release it, there will be addons.
Maybe one of these addons could add a target of target option, which honestly should've been available at the release. (So I guess this could be counted as ''reverse innovation''? Alot of mmos have this.)

[Kouki]

You're comparing the PvP gearing up at the start of the game to the gearing up at the current stage of WoW.
Instead, try comparing it with the PvP gearing up when BGs where implemented in WoW. I'm pretty sure it took quite a while to get that Grand Marshal/High Warlord weapon. So there's no innovation there.


Good/evil side options have been in games for years.


While I agree that allowing them to sell grays and letting them do crew skill missions is somewhat innovative (although it's a bit annoying that you can't craft anything yourself), building a relationship with a companion was already in some games before SWTOR. Mass Effect, for example.


RIFT/WoW/Tera all have decent character customizing, this isn't exactly something innovative.


Treasures that can be discovered by exploring, nothing innovative. For example, RIFT has artifacts that can be found when exploring.


While the levelling experience is great, most of the non-class quests -are- the same. If you level, for example, a Sith Inquisitor and a Bounty Hunter, the only worlds that will have different non-class quests is the world you start on. (Korriban/Hutta)


This would only be innovative if the pvp in every game before SWTOR was just spamming a couple buttons.


A raid that has a story? Wow, that truely is innovative. If only other games before SWTOR had raids with a story. /sarcasm


There's no addons because they haven't finished working on the API yet. Once they finish and release it, there will be addons.
Maybe one of these addons could add a target of target option, which honestly should've been available at the release. (So I guess this could be counted as ''reverse innovation''? Alot of mmos have this.)

Agreed to everything, so do you feel like its a rushed game?

[DemaioJ]

I have a Commando, Jedi Knight and Sage I PvP very regularly with and I'm going to tell you straight up that if you sit around spamming tracer missle/grav round you're doing it wrong. TBH on my commando I'm actually using hammer shot more than grav round to try and conserve my ammo for kills. Anyway, SW's pvp is actually really close to pre-hat Team Fortess 2. There's a lot of room for skillful play but it usually has very little to do with your class.

[Rakoth]

It doesn't feel rushed, but it does feel like the QA was a little lax

As a QA myself, I feel that this is the worst opinion one could have. Believe me, QA has logged ALL of the bugs you are finding and thousands more. The priority was decreased by the project management team.

Quality Assurance has 1 role, to inform. We inform the dev's of the bugs and how to reproduce, we inform the project managers what the state of the quality of the game is and how many ppl they will affect. The decision to fix / not fix is not ours.

Back on topic:
The game leveling experience is beautiful, but Illum is a mess (How arrogant do you have to be to say you let Pub's "Breath" so they don't flee, that statement right there illustrates how broken Illum is). The use of a DOUBLE sided resilience stat (works both for offense and defense) has made getting into PvP that much harder then it is in WoW (even Blizzard has recognized resilience has it's problems and Bioware went and doubled it.)

I love the leveling, but I have two characters at max level, and I find myself logging in one night a week. The end-game is not quite there yet.

I am leveling my third (yes it's a commando, and the OP is right, they are really easy to shut down in PvP) for my guild's raid group. I enjoy it, even after three times (I skipped a few bonus series with my first two chars, I get to do them again now). Needless to say, I also spacebar every dialog.

[Miah]

Noone needs to prove anything here, SWTOR isn't really the most innovative game ever made, but that's ok, it's a decent game if you're into WoW/EQ/Rift type MMO's. It's the levelling where it shines. However, if it's innovation you're talking about, Look at games like TSW,GW2,TERA or archeage.

We might even find out someday. Let me be like others here and just throw out a blanket " They have no innovation" and if they do, I will just squack like a Parrot.No They dont, No they dont, No they dont, even if people point out that they do and certainly more than the MMO standard supposedly held by one familiar un-fun grind fest.

Still waiting to hear something Innovative

[DemaioJ]

The entire pvp system is pretty innovative. It needs a lot of work IMO but that's to be expected with something new.

[Vegemeat]

We might even find out someday. Let me be like others here and just throw out a blanket " They have no innovation" and if they do, I will just squack like a Parrot.No They dont, No they dont, No they dont, even if people point out that they do and certainly more than the MMO standard supposedly held by one familiar un-fun grind fest.

Still waiting to hear something Innovative

Are you talking about swtor in the part I bolded? You need to stop taking things so personally, if people don't like swtor they don't like swtor, someone went through and detailed why the stuff you listed isn't innovative, either accept it or move on and enjoy the game.

[Miah]

You're comparing the PvP gearing up at the start of the game to the gearing up at the current stage of WoW.
Instead, try comparing it with the PvP gearing up when BGs where implemented in WoW. I'm pretty sure it took quite a while to get that Grand Marshal/High Warlord weapon. So there's no innovation there.


Good/evil side options have been in games for years.


While I agree that allowing them to sell grays and letting them do crew skill missions is somewhat innovative (although it's a bit annoying that you can't craft anything yourself), building a relationship with a companion was already in some games before SWTOR. Mass Effect, for example.


RIFT/WoW/Tera all have decent character customizing, this isn't exactly something innovative.


Treasures that can be discovered by exploring, nothing innovative. For example, RIFT has artifacts that can be found when exploring.


While the levelling experience is great, most of the non-class quests -are- the same. If you level, for example, a Sith Inquisitor and a Bounty Hunter, the only worlds that will have different non-class quests is the world you start on. (Korriban/Hutta)


This would only be innovative if the pvp in every game before SWTOR was just spamming a couple buttons.


A raid that has a story? Wow, that truely is innovative. If only other games before SWTOR had raids with a story. /sarcasm


There's no addons because they haven't finished working on the API yet. Once they finish and release it, there will be addons.
Maybe one of these addons could add a target of target option, which honestly should've been available at the release. (So I guess this could be counted as ''reverse innovation''? Alot of mmos have this.)

I know level 72 Valor Toons without full battlemaster, or even close, they are still in half Champion how does this compare to WoW, I actually was comparing it to WoW whether it was an All day Alterac Valley or a 15 minute Alterac Valley.

We are talking about MMOs right........Bioware comes up with companions but its not innovative for an MMO because Bioware did it in Mass effect first? Well heck Ninja Gaiden for the XBox was innovative too but are we going to go back to Pong through the different genres to figure out whats innovative in THIS MMO that people keep repeating has NO innovation and usually use WoW as the standard they go by?, I thought Warhammer was much more innovative than WoW, even Aion was considerably more innovative, it was just a grind fest. I personally see no innovation in Timesink Grindy games like WoW and Aion

The PvP in most MMOs except possibly Warhammer are button spammers to be effective, Button spam in SWTOR and see where it gets you, I can certainly button spam most classes in the Industry Standard. I see alot more quality PvP in SWTORs end game PvP than any other MMO except possibly Warhammer, but even Warhammer had massively OP classes.

I didn't know WoW added decent character customization, I havent played since the second week of Firelands and up to that point I never remember laughing at some Fat, stumpy, Character that's appearance changed through decisions it made through the game, nor thinking any character I saw looked Cool or intimidating in any way. The Goblins were cute but aside from that...........maybe it was the 6 years of seeing the same ole same ole. I remember all druids looking like all other druids except maybe their horns and sex. Its interesting they can now choose to be good or evil though.

I didn't even talk about Legacy yet because no one actually has the definite word on that so i'm not sure how innovative that is yet, if at all, It may be like WoW and let you easy mode an alt up in a couple days by fully gearing it up via mailbox.

There is no innovation in Add-ons, its just more easy mode. I don't classify DBM telling me how to raid innovating in the least, just like recount and its tendency to have the DPS and healers try and out do each other and run out of Mana or whatever in their race and wiping the Raid. People seem to be doing fine without Add-ons in SWTOR, I know people like to eat dinner and watch TV while they raid, if so, maybe they need to stick to add ons. And since we're not sticking to MMOs, I really wish Ninja Gaiden would have had add-ons, errr maybe Counterstrike and Super mario Bros if thats your kick.

So what was the story with BWD and BoT in Cata as you walked around the gloomy red circle and killed a couple bosses to get to Nefarian. Sorry i dont remember I was always to bored to care. I will say that Kara in BC was a well done Raid for its time, not to take anything from Blizzard, Hyjal had a little cool factor to it as well.

So Rift has Datacrons that take special tools to uncover and takes platforming skills to get to? Nice, I never played Rift, looked like yet another Fantasy "been there done that" to me. Maybe the constant comparisons should be made to Rift with a Lightsaber then, atleast they have datacron type platforming in hidden places using purchased items.