1. #1

    Is there a discernible difference between "top" and "bot" ?

    I always hear that certain classes are better at top, and others better at bottom. They seem like mirror images to me, so what gives?

    Also if anyone wants to explain the point of jungling to me, I would appreciate it! I find that I get more gold and experience killing enemy minions!

  2. #2
    Dreadlord Nosonia's Avatar
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    Standard setup for 5v5 is

    Tanky champ top
    Jungler
    AP Mage mid
    AD Carry + Support bot

    now of course, there are many variations, kennen does well top, cassi can do well bot... etc..

    Top and bottom are very different styles of gameplay. Bot is usually accompanied by a support class who can keep you healed up, aid you in serious harassment of the enemy, restore mana, etc...

    It is usually very hard for a top lane to impact a game so much that they can turn the tides of battle and win... where as your mid AP or AD carry can...

    The sustain required for top is higher then bot... Top is usually a tank who can just sit there and farm without having to worry about too much harassment, its typically pretty boring.. Where as bot is a lot more action packed, and in my opinion a lot harder to play then top.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Nosonia View Post
    Standard setup for 5v5 is

    Tanky champ top
    Jungler
    AP Mage mid
    AD Carry + Support bot

    now of course, there are many variations, kennen does well top, cassi can do well bot... etc..

    Top and bottom are very different styles of gameplay. Bot is usually accompanied by a support class who can keep you healed up, aid you in serious harassment of the enemy, restore mana, etc...

    It is usually very hard for a top lane to impact a game so much that they can turn the tides of battle and win... where as your mid AP or AD carry can...

    The sustain required for top is higher then bot... Top is usually a tank who can just sit there and farm without having to worry about too much harassment, its typically pretty boring.. Where as bot is a lot more action packed, and in my opinion a lot harder to play then top.
    Okay, I am curious now, does the top lane have more minions that spawn or something, or is this an unwritten rule of League of Legends that most players tend to follow? Also, doesn't Jungling give less exp/gold than enemy minions?

  4. #4
    Dreadlord Nosonia's Avatar
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    That "unwritten rule" comes from tournaments players watch. Most world class players sim and sim and sim until their eyes bleed to come out with the best strategies. (which is currently tanky top, ap mid, ad carry bot with support and a jungler)

    Having your tank top, allows him to farm without stealing minions from anyone else. He gets tanky, and then simply doesn't die.

    Your jungle (with the new jungle) can keep up in minions very easily, while getting ahead with ganks in top and mid lane. He ends up on par with everyone else.

    Your AP mid can gank top or bot on demand, as well as farm like a mad man in mid and get fed as crazy.

    The AD carry bottom will get all the last hits on minions, while the support simply babysits and allows the Ad carry to farm.

    So essentially, you end up with 3 solo lanes, plus a jungler (who with the new jungle is getting enough CS to be considered his own lane) and a very starved support. Since support classes are not item dependent, it doesn't matter.

    Usually a tank can ignore harass much more then the AP mid or AD carry bot... as a result, they can get more farm then other lanes. It's not that there are more minions, there is just less risk for a tank to push forward a bit to get a last hit then there is for an AP or Ad carry.

    EDIT: It's also very important to know that champion death gold was nerfed a while ago, and it is much more beneficial to farm CS and ignore the other champ then to harass the other champ like crazy and miss tons of CS.

  5. #5
    Bot lane is closest to dragon and that's why both sides have their duo there, rather than in top lane. That is the only reason why top is solo lane, and bot is duo lane. If you replaced Baron with a 2nd dragon the 2 lanes would be identical, so you'd have the purple duo start in top as it allows them to do their golems.

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  6. #6
    The difference between top and bot is Dragon. Early game the most important objective is dragon so to make it easier to secure you want as many players around. So for this purpose you send your duo lane bot, so you can have more people ready to contest the dragon.

    The purpose of jungler is to make use of all possible resources. If you don't have a jungler you are giving up on all that experience and gold form the jungle creeps. If you jungle you also open up a slot for an additional solo lane, that being solo top. Also a jungler can apply pressure to lanes which are losing and make it easier for his team to secure objectives on the map.
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  7. #7
    This is my last question, mainly regarding the "Jungle"... after reading that Shaco was awesome at Jungling, I tried to go Jungle at level 1 and got my ass kicked pretty bad. Are you suppose to wait until higher levels to begin doing this or am I doing something completely wrong? lol!

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Jersovic View Post
    This is my last question, mainly regarding the "Jungle"... after reading that Shaco was awesome at Jungling, I tried to go Jungle at level 1 and got my ass kicked pretty bad. Are you suppose to wait until higher levels to begin doing this or am I doing something completely wrong? lol!
    Are we talking character level 1 or summoner level 1? Because runes and masteries are very, very, VERY helpful when jungling.

  9. #9
    Shaco is one of the hardest champions in the game to master. I dont play him personally but most shacos I see start with jack in the box and stack them before the mobs spawn. I would check out a guide on mobafire.com or youtube a shaco guide. Shaco's the best counterjungler/invader in the game (imo) and thats where he really shines. Messing other peoples days up.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Alexandri View Post
    Are we talking character level 1 or summoner level 1? Because runes and masteries are very, very, VERY helpful when jungling.
    Character level 1... my summoner level was probably 6 at the time (I'm level 10 now).

  11. #11
    Also Alexandri is right, runes/masteries are a HUGE DEAL for any champion that isn't listed as a 'Jungler', they make jungling signifigently easier and faster.

  12. #12
    You want to not bother jungling until level 20 imo. At that point, you can put some runes in, you have better masteries, etc. Then you want to start with a jungler that's relatively easy, to get a feel for respawn timers, and a jungling route. Once you have your initial route and all that sorted, then you start looking at ways to gank.

  13. #13
    High Overlord Liquephyre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jersovic View Post
    I tried to go Jungle at level 1 and got my ass kicked pretty bad. Are you suppose to wait until higher levels to begin doing this or am I doing something completely wrong? lol!
    If you're Account is level1 you'll be missing all of your runes and masteries for jungling. However, you can take an 'easier' route to compensate. As far as Jungling Shaco: Box placement and utilization is key!. I'm not sure how a runeless/mastery-less shaco would do it although, as level30, I start at blue by placing Boxes around the camp. 3 under the golems butt and another 1-2 where the smaller ones spawn. For the smaller camps drop a box in the middle of them, let the box 'tank' some damage while you clean them up. For a Red/Blue after initial spawn pre-7: drop a few boxes (2-3) in the brush next to the golem (without pulling yet, obviously) then drop a last one on the golem itself to initiate the pull. After the first box dies stand near the cluster you built to get them to help finish 'em off.

    Aside from these anecdotes I'd suggest creating a few custom games for you to practice jungling in. To do that- Click the Play button (like usual), on the left hand side you'll be normally marked for PvP. Change that to the Custom tab, and then Create(the other 2 options are co-op VS UI and Tutorial). In the Create a Game you can select how many opponents you have, who they are as well as your team make-up (to some limits). This will give you a chance to practice a jungle route while not getting yelled at by team mates for making a mistake!

    One of the biggest changes to my gameplay when I was learning to jungle was to Know and Watch your timers! Watch and learn how quickly the red/blue golems, dragon and baron respawn. Once you can predict your own jungle you can start learning how to counter jungle more effectively! And counterjungling is what Shaco (and some others!) are all about
    Last edited by Liquephyre; 2012-02-25 at 08:26 PM. Reason: Sentence structure :confused:
    Grammar- It's the difference between knowing your shit & knowing you're shit.

  14. #14
    Fiddlesticks I think cna jungle regardless of runes and masteries.

    I wouldn´t try it though as jungling is much more complex to a newcomer than laning.

  15. #15
    Shaco can jungle naked thanks to his boxes, most of his runes and masteries are to make his ganks better. So yea, you take boxes at lvl 1 and go to blue/red and start spamming them as soon as the game timer hits 1:00. If you put 4-5 boxes you can usually kill the Lizard/golem without smite. Seriously with shaco it's just ridiculous.
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  16. #16
    Mechagnome akts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jersovic View Post
    I always hear that certain classes are better at top, and others better at bottom. They seem like mirror images to me, so what gives?
    Bot is duo lane because of it proximity to drake. Duo laners have more money and opportunities to ward that area, therefore they go bot. Therefore top is solo lane. Simple.
    In Soviet Russia banks rob you! Oh, wait a second...

  17. #17
    The reason that top is a solo lane and bot is a duo lane is because dragon spawns at bottom, easier to ward and better control in general.

  18. #18
    Fluffy Kitten Aciaedius's Avatar
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    Okay, I'd just like to preface this by saying that I may be wrong since I don't play a lot of LoL, but in other MOBAs the jungler isn't out there so much for himself as he is for the rest of the team. Some jungle heroes get just about the same xp and gold per minute as they would on a solo lane, but most of the time they're just trying to keep up while the team gets two solo heroes on the lanes farming away. If the jungler is also a really strong jungler, the team practically has three soloers.

    So yeah, it's more for the purpose of not being on a lane than it is for you to get the most farm. Most of the time, anyway.
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