I'll guard you. Let them come through ME first! - Guardian discussion thread.

[Cassandrea]

Edit:
From a guildwarsinsider staff member:

"I think they replaced Sanctuary with a new Elite - Renewed Focus: Focus making you invulnerable and recharging all your virtues on a 135s recharge (obviously my complaining that Guardian elites were too immobile paid off)"

Looking back at it the guy doesn't seem absolutely positive so I'm not sure how to take it.

Hmmmm interesting indeed. I do like the new elite (if it gets implemented) because it then plays to those builds that are indeed highly mobile (sword and torch combo for example), and can lend great support on the move with a more melee oriented group. I still want the 1st and 2nd hammer skills to change however... that must be done first!

[zcks]

Hmmmm interesting indeed. I do like the new elite (if it gets implemented) because it then plays to those builds that are indeed highly mobile (sword and torch combo for example), and can lend great support on the move with a more melee oriented group. I still want the 1st and 2nd hammer skills to change however... that must be done first!

Agree completely, given that the hammer already does AOE by default they should just bake skill number 2 into skill number 1.
As for what they could replace it with, I & allot of others feel the guardian could use a cripple or immobilize ability. Also it would work quite well because it would offer a good hard choice of weather to use greatsword for mobility or hammer for conditions.


Also to anyone who hasn't looked at the new trait lines should do so as soon as you can. They heavily changed the radiance trait line, so much so that 3 things may break previous build ideas people had.
1: The guardian no longer has any abilities that trigger off of critical strikes.
2: The blind effects which could previously be applied passively by virtue of justice or critical strikes can now only be applied by activating justice (which has a 20 second CD)
3: The trait that applied burning on critical strikes is also gone.

This means if your were planing on playing an offensive build that focused on critical strikes & applying conditions your SOL and going to have to rethink how you want to build your traits.

as a side note, some of the changes like moving traits into different lines was a good idea but there were very few complaints before hand & the changes just seem unneeded. They are also bound to tick more then a few people off who had planed on playing with an offensive build.

[DrakeWurrum]

Oh, good. Guardian gets their "Super Saiyan" elite skill after all!

I knew they'd think of a way to do it. :3

[Loaf Lord]

Oh, good. Guardian gets their "Super Saiyan" elite skill after all!

I knew they'd think of a way to do it. :3

Now I can live like this dude. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxiWnsp0dTY

[grandpab]

Now I can live like this dude. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxiWnsp0dTY

I think he's trying to make race car noises.

[Cassandrea]

Agree completely, given that the hammer already does AOE by default they should just bake skill number 2 into skill number 1.
As for what they could replace it with, I & allot of others feel the guardian could use a cripple or immobilize ability. Also it would work quite well because it would offer a good hard choice of weather to use greatsword for mobility or hammer for conditions.


Also to anyone who hasn't looked at the new trait lines should do so as soon as you can. They heavily changed the radiance trait line, so much so that 3 things may break previous build ideas people had.
1: The guardian no longer has any abilities that trigger off of critical strikes.
2: The blind effects which could previously be applied passively by virtue of justice or critical strikes can now only be applied by activating justice (which has a 20 second CD)
3: The trait that applied burning on critical strikes is also gone.

This means if your were planing on playing an offensive build that focused on critical strikes & applying conditions your SOL and going to have to rethink how you want to build your traits.

no... NO.. NOOOOOOOO0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O

But the point of a guardian was to be defensive by being offensive... what about my burning crusader? Gah this is bad I hope they at least at more offensive abilities... >:{

[DrakeWurrum]

...so they're limiting the offensive power of the Guardian further?

Even though Guardian is likely to be less popular than others specifically because people assume, based on the name, that it's all about focus and defense? :S

I don't like.

[zcks]

no... NO.. NOOOOOOOO0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O

But the point of a guardian was to be defensive by being offensive... what about my burning crusader? Gah this is bad I hope they at least at more offensive abilities... >:{

I know how ya feel, I had planned on using a build that went heavily into the radiance trait line. It would have been very focused on preventing damage via blinds & retaliation effects while doing damage via burning effects.

Some of the changes are nice however.

For instance they moved Expertise to the zeal trait line, Malice to the radiance trait line & concentration to the virtues trait line.

Those changes at least are good ones & could be used to make some awesome builds if they would just revert the major & minor Radiance traits back to how they were in the last build.

[grandpab]

Idk...guardian just might not be offensive enough for me. I watched a guardian vs guardian fight and it just didn't get anywhere until another enemy came to help. They got each other to about half health, but they both ended up at full health again. I don't know if I want to be able to slowly kill someone just because I have high survivability.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4qAIz_ScMg#t=1m35s

[DrakeWurrum]

Idk...guardian just might not be offensive enough for me. I watched a guardian vs guardian fight and it just didn't get anywhere until another enemy came to help. They got each other to about half health, but they both ended up at full health again. I don't know if I want to be able to slowly kill someone just because I have high survivability.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4qAIz_ScMg#t=1m35s

I don't have an issue with the concept of a high-survivability build that slowly kills like that, but... I don't think an entire profession should be based on that concept, as I can use traits in any profession to play that way. Especially Engineer.

[Loaf Lord]

Idk...guardian just might not be offensive enough for me. I watched a guardian vs guardian fight and it just didn't get anywhere until another enemy came to help. They got each other to about half health, but they both ended up at full health again. I don't know if I want to be able to slowly kill someone just because I have high survivability.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4qAIz_ScMg#t=1m35s

Yeah, if guardians end up lacking damage, then it pretty much puts a tombstone on them for me. I'm all about wrecking faces.

[zcks]

Idk...guardian just might not be offensive enough for me. I watched a guardian vs guardian fight and it just didn't get anywhere until another enemy came to help. They got each other to about half health, but they both ended up at full health again. I don't know if I want to be able to slowly kill someone just because I have high survivability.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4qAIz_ScMg#t=1m35s

Eh after looking at that video I noticed a few things.

First off the guys chosen talents were defensive ones.

Secondly he was using a hammer which is by it's nature more defensive then the greatsword, especially since the greatsword's #3 ability now applies symbol of wrath instead of symbol of swiftness.

Lastly we don't known what traits he was using, for all we know he was using the defensive ones.


All that being said the recent changes to the minor & major traits for the radiance trait line do limit the offensive ability of the guardian quite a bit.
Hopefully they revert the changes to the minor & major traits in the radiance trait line but leave the other recently made changes.

[Cassandrea]

Eh after looking at that video I noticed a few things.

First off the guys chosen talents were defensive ones.

Secondly he was using a hammer which is by it's nature more defensive then the greatsword, especially since the greatsword's #3 ability now applies symbol of wrath instead of symbol of swiftness.

Lastly we don't known what traits he was using, for all we know he was using the defensive ones.


All that being said the recent changes to the minor & major traits for the radiance trait line do limit the offensive ability of the guardian quite a bit.
Hopefully they revert the changes to the minor & major traits in the radiance trait line but leave the other recently made changes.

This annoys me because the main reason I chose the guardian was because it was just as offensive as all the other classes with a focus on defense... so being offensive while being defensive... but if that big a change was made to our offensive ability...

[zcks]

This annoys me because the main reason I chose the guardian was because it was just as offensive as all the other classes with a focus on defense... so being offensive while being defensive... but if that big a change was made to our offensive ability...

Well it's still beta & things could easily change for the better.

Even after the 10th of next month there will probably be at least a month or 2 worth of beta's.


If people (especially beta players) speak up about what they liked in previous builds & speak up about what they don't like in the current build Arena.net will probably change things for the better.
They tend to have a much better record of adjusting things class/profession design wise then allot of other companies.
(evidence of that can be seen in the fact that they brought the #3 greatsword ability "Symbol of Wrath" due to so many people liking it. During the press beta they had replaced it with symbol of swiftness but so many people wanted symbol of wrath back that they decided to revert the change)

So hopefully by the time beta is over some of those major/minor trait changes will be reverted or made better resulting in the profession having a good fluid play style weather you play defensively, offensively or somewhere in between.

(personally though I'm with you, I loved the idea of playing offensively but still providing damage reduction via blinds & retaliation effects while doing so.)

[Deleted]

Theres nothing worry about with a Guardian been offensive, they are more capable of dishing good damage, then turning into a defense monster.

[Deleted]

What do you think about the Guardian elite skills? Your skills gets replaced with powerful skills, but you will be stuck in place, though an awesome book comes out from nowhere infront of you -w-

[Deleted]

Im very sad they removed Sanctuary, I absolutely love spells that push back in aoe... I do, however, agree that we needed some elite skills we can move around with. the two books didnt really seem all that interesting to me, tbh

[BlairPhoenix]

Im very sad they removed Sanctuary, I absolutely love spells that push back in aoe... I do, however, agree that we needed some elite skills we can move around with. the two books didnt really seem all that interesting to me, tbh

They didn't entirely remove Sanctuary, they kicked it down to a utility skill and changed, I believe the radius of it, and it now gives Regen to people.

[Cassandrea]

They didn't entirely remove Sanctuary, they kicked it down to a utility skill and changed, I believe the radius of it, and it now gives Regen to people.

What he said ^^^^

But, I guess since it is all Beta it is all subject to change... I really do hope they add a lot more power to Guardians melee weapons. Looking at warrior videos I see that the hammer, while being a useful control tool, also does a shit ton of damage. I would like to see the same damage on a guardian, but with a different type of control... (knocking people back, keeping people in a circle, purging debuffs so on and so forth... maybe add a cripple )

All in all I will still probably play a guardian... Cause after seeing the combo that involves the 2h sword skill Binding Blade (aoe chain pull to yourself) and a quick switch to the hammer skill Ring of Warding to lock them in place... that is the coolest combo EVER!!!!!

EVERRRRRRR

Imagine the utility of locking a bunch of people in one circle, lighting them up with burning and spirit weapons, and calling down your teammates to rain down fiery death.... ouchhhhh

[Speedy92286]

This annoys me because the main reason I chose the guardian was because it was just as offensive as all the other classes with a focus on defense... so being offensive while being defensive... but if that big a change was made to our offensive ability...

Is it bad that I love it for being more defensive than offensive? I have no problem holding the line/flagpoint until help comes. If I can kill someone 1v1 that's fine, but if I can keep a few guys on me while my team goes after the mission objective that is even better. And the video showed how the hammer can be good; get rid of a second person so you can focus on the guy infront of you. If he put down sanctuary he would have prevented the charr from even helping out his ally for longer.

As others have said though, we do not know the build they are using. Also mind you that these people are not the most familiar with the class so they are probably still figuring out some of the combinations to do more damage.