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  1. #1001
    Herald of the Titans Ynna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zilong View Post
    [snip]

    Now she agrees with me, but I don't think she want anything changed hahahha, biased people .
    Nowhere in that video does he do crazy burst. When his opponents go down fast, he's either getting help or the enemy is a glass cannon. Also, he's pretty skilled. He swaps weapons, anticipates enemy actions, knows when to run away... Compare to the Guardian he killed in that video and you'll see the difference.

    Instead of "Burst, with sustained capability, VERY good survivability, (some mobility) AND support," it's more: minor burst, decent sustained capability, very good survivability, low mobility (seriously, any half-decent ranged player could have kited him forever) and a bit of support (most of his "support" abilities are in this build to make sure he doesn't die himself, and that's how he uses it. He could use his abilities more supportive, but he'd die a lot easier then.

    The video doesn't show an overpowered profession, it shows a very skilled player. I'm pretty certain you can find similar videos for the other professions as well.

    And stop calling people who disagree with you biased.

    Lastly, instead of going "Guardians are overpowered and can do everything awesomely at once", do tell what specific abilities, traits or combinations of these are too powerful.
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  2. #1002
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ynna View Post
    Nowhere in that video does he do crazy burst. When his opponents go down fast, he's either getting help or the enemy is a glass cannon. Also, he's pretty skilled. He swaps weapons, anticipates enemy actions, knows when to run away... Compare to the Guardian he killed in that video and you'll see the difference.

    Instead of "Burst, with sustained capability, VERY good survivability, (some mobility) AND support," it's more: minor burst, decent sustained capability, very good survivability, low mobility (seriously, any half-decent ranged player could have kited him forever) and a bit of support (most of his "support" abilities are in this build to make sure he doesn't die himself, and that's how he uses it. He could use his abilities more supportive, but he'd die a lot easier then.

    The video doesn't show an overpowered profession, it shows a very skilled player. I'm pretty certain you can find similar videos for the other professions as well.

    And stop calling people who disagree with you biased.

    Lastly, instead of going "Guardians are overpowered and can do everything awesomely at once", do tell what specific abilities, traits or combinations of these are too powerful.
    His reaction is simply what happens when unskilled players witness a skilled player. They automatically assume it has to do with the profession or the gear or the skills used - it cannot POSSIBLY be that the other player is simply amazing. Skill doesn't have that much bearing on PvP, right?! (snicker)
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  3. #1003
    I tried the scepter in the last Beta weekend...and it was -way- too powerful if you ask me, it made PvP stupidly easy. I just had to sit back, CC and AoE nuke my enemies and bam free kills. Switching to any melee weapon however resulted in me getting swarmed by other players and AoE effects.

    As almost every GW2-follower is aware of, melee just isn't able to compete with ranged due to the need to A)Stay in range, which leads to B)Take loads of damage OR Sacrifice your own damage to stay alive via dodging.

    Here's hoping melee gets a buff that lets it compete with any form of ranged.

  4. #1004
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ranorack View Post
    I tried the scepter in the last Beta weekend...and it was -way- too powerful if you ask me, it made PvP stupidly easy. I just had to sit back, CC and AoE nuke my enemies and bam free kills. Switching to any melee weapon however resulted in me getting swarmed by other players and AoE effects.

    As almost every GW2-follower is aware of, melee just isn't able to compete with ranged due to the need to A)Stay in range, which leads to B)Take loads of damage OR Sacrifice your own damage to stay alive via dodging.

    Here's hoping melee gets a buff that lets it compete with any form of ranged.
    I'm still convinced this is a matter of player skill. Using ranged weapons is simply always going to be easier than using melee weapons, and thus melee weapons will have a higher skill cap. It's a matter of the player learning how to counter a ranged enemy's advantages.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  5. #1005
    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    She has a point you know. If you're right, the Guardian will get nerfed. If you're wrong, you're wrong, and you'll constantly overestimate Guardians until you learn otherwise.

    That being said: in both videos, when intense damage was done to the enemy, the Guardian was not alone. When he was alone, or with only one other person, often the enemy took damage slowly.

    The whole POINT of a build where you're hard to kill is to out-last the opponent. If you've ever played LoL, you'll often find characters like Nasus, Amumu, Rammus, Cho'gath, etc... destroying a carry from the enemy team in 1v1, not because he literally does more damage, but because the carry can't deal enough damage to kill the tank before he dies. That's a very important distinction to make.
    When players learn how to work as a team and protect the glass cannons on their teams (note: It'll be harder to pick them out in GW2 than in LoL, since the profession/weapons you pick does not decide your role, the way picking champion in LoL does), and when players learn to focus glass cannons first, you'll see this become less and less of an issue.
    True story, but she said joking. Its all about discussing, I did post on the official foruns and got alot of attention. Meaning Im not THAT far off.
    The second video was a nice balanced vid. But the first one (And I recognize the guy is good) really got me thinking. Too forgiving for the new ppl, very good for the skilled, as other classes are as well, but I think they are a tad too much (not by much). There is a post up (a few) that really matches what Im saying.


    Quote Originally Posted by Exedore View Post
    A good player against uncoordinated mediocre players always makes a class look very powerful. Also, the Radiance line with used with a sword is very powerful compared to any other guardian build. It gives +5% damage and +15% crit. That will probably be adjusted in BWE3, since ArenaNet said that only engineer traits are near final.

    It's a good build though. A little of everything, but not extremely good at one thing in particular.

    I liked ur post . I think its accurate. And I do think it needs to be tuned down. its an awesome build with not a little of everything, but just the right ammount to be the all doer. Of course its not extremely good at one, but its good in pretty much all. Which comes the only thing im saying: could use adjustments to be a little less in something, not so forgiving.

    ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Ynna View Post
    Nowhere in that video does he do crazy burst. When his opponents go down fast, he's either getting help or the enemy is a glass cannon. Also, he's pretty skilled. He swaps weapons, anticipates enemy actions, knows when to run away... Compare to the Guardian he killed in that video and you'll see the difference.

    Instead of "Burst, with sustained capability, VERY good survivability, (some mobility) AND support," it's more: minor burst, decent sustained capability, very good survivability, low mobility (seriously, any half-decent ranged player could have kited him forever) and a bit of support (most of his "support" abilities are in this build to make sure he doesn't die himself, and that's how he uses it. He could use his abilities more supportive, but he'd die a lot easier then.

    The video doesn't show an overpowered profession, it shows a very skilled player. I'm pretty certain you can find similar videos for the other professions as well.

    And stop calling people who disagree with you biased.

    Lastly, instead of going "Guardians are overpowered and can do everything awesomely at once", do tell what specific abilities, traits or combinations of these are too powerful.
    Well, nice snips :O. (Had to see what that meant.)

    I did correct myself saying it wasnt THE Burst, I said its a very okay damage regarding whatever else he can do. Yes I know he's skilled and the other guardian was a dummy lol. But again if a class is too easy to play (cause they are, regardless of that dummy) and you are strong, and if you are good you are way better, I think we have a small issue.

    Yet he managed to kite everyone on the other team, survive, kill, and the kiters (which I agree wasnt AA) but still he followed them with no problem. The skill of "support" in this case should have one way only. Either its for his own protection like he uses, or he uses for others. This alone would make the class way more interesting. Right now its always If im alone Ill use it, if im in a group Ill use it. You wanna survive and help other by surviving/attacking, take those, if you want be a lil more behind and help, take the others and learn to play as a team while people will protect you (meaning you will lack some (YES SOME) abilities to help yourself).

    I agree with the skilled player yes. I think there is tho one small slab of difference between other classes. A average something else will suffer alot more than an average guardian. And a good something else will be very good at something, while it seems a guardian can (if wanted) do pretty much alot (even if its not as good 1 thing the other classes can). Ive seen some good necro that just didnt die ever lol, very good at kiting and stuff, but in terms of damage or control, not so good. Or even the thief, if he doesnt kill in the first 2 seconds he will die, altho he can be very good at downed kiting.

    I really dont think Im being bad here by saying I wanted to see some change that made the guardian more interesting for me as well! And Im putting my neck out here by defending what I think and be taken as a "OMG GUARDIANS ARE OP ". I played the guardian well, I didnt feel like I died at all, killed a very good bunch, and supported, could be more challenging than that (cause I could even go 1v3).

    About the biased comment. I was talking exclusively about my wife XD, so hold ur horses. She felt very powerful and enjoyed it haha, even tho thinking Im right, she doesnt want to loose that power. Altho I admit I would like this topic to be a thread of its own, with more non-guardian people on it, I could be wrong (not talking about any of you) but ppl that come here are interested in guardian.

    ----

    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    His reaction is simply what happens when unskilled players witness a skilled player. They automatically assume it has to do with the profession or the gear or the skills used - it cannot POSSIBLY be that the other player is simply amazing. Skill doesn't have that much bearing on PvP, right?! (snicker)
    I'll ignore this as it is bad, bad bad drake.

    ----

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranorack View Post
    I tried the scepter in the last Beta weekend...and it was -way- too powerful if you ask me, it made PvP stupidly easy. I just had to sit back, CC and AoE nuke my enemies and bam free kills. Switching to any melee weapon however resulted in me getting swarmed by other players and AoE effects.

    As almost every GW2-follower is aware of, melee just isn't able to compete with ranged due to the need to A)Stay in range, which leads to B)Take loads of damage OR Sacrifice your own damage to stay alive via dodging.

    Here's hoping melee gets a buff that lets it compete with any form of ranged.
    I felt the same way. But Ill have to disagree with something, you could be a case of skill/weapon preference so I wont really add you to my pointers. As you can even see on the video its not that hard, some classes are just kiting perfect lol, but if you get to them...they are gone..

    -----

    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    I'm still convinced this is a matter of player skill. Using ranged weapons is simply always going to be easier than using melee weapons, and thus melee weapons will have a higher skill cap. It's a matter of the player learning how to counter a ranged enemy's advantages.
    I think partially it is, but as stated above on my post I think in this particular case it is a little bit more than that, the hand of god helping the guardian is a lil tid high XD.

  6. #1006
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    If Guardians were really that superior to other professions, then we would see related nerfs based on the supposedly skillful members of the closed ongoing beta testers. Those of us who have played only in BWEs, or even got lucky in the closed press beta events before those, have only experienced GW2 in small snippets. Counters and strategies that are effective are not likely to be widely known just yet.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  7. #1007
    Herald of the Titans Ynna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ranorack View Post
    I tried the scepter in the last Beta weekend...and it was -way- too powerful if you ask me, it made PvP stupidly easy. I just had to sit back, CC and AoE nuke my enemies and bam free kills. Switching to any melee weapon however resulted in me getting swarmed by other players and AoE effects.
    Apart from the obvious discrepancy between melee and ranged (and that could, as Drake pointed out, be a skill cap/learning curve issue), I don't think the Scepter is overly powerful. I must admit that I didn't use it a whole lot, but it has a lot of downsides (in the last beta weekend) and you give up quite a bit in order to use it. It's also not that hard to counter, I think.
    The downsides are that you have no viable off-hand (currently) and that your range is still low, compared to other ranged weapons.
    Also, outside of the lockdown-skill, your attacks are easily evaded and outclassed by quite a lot of other ranged weapons.
    Retired Holy Priest
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  8. #1008
    Quote Originally Posted by Ynna View Post
    The downsides [to scepter] are that you have no viable off-hand (currently) and that your range is still low, compared to other ranged weapons.
    Also, outside of the lockdown-skill, your attacks are easily evaded and outclassed by quite a lot of other ranged weapons.
    Scepter pairs perfectly fine with shield. Focus probably works as well. I find the ranged attack perfectly fine. It's not that slow. But scepter just isn't a good primary weapon. You're not going to use it in a stand-off against a caster, for example. It's good for the times when melee combat isn't a good idea or for when you have to chase someone down (immobilize helps a lot in that regard).

  9. #1009
    How you guys feel about the second part of the interview?
    Second Part

    Ill quote the parts that are important:

    Lewis B: How do you feel the balance of the PvP is shaping up, now that significant pools of players have played the game? From my perspective, I’ve found that the guardian at times feels too important to be without in structured PvP and WvW. Its skill set, being so supportive, is just too valuable to not have one by your side. Is that something you’re trying to address and/or avoid?

    Jon: The balance of the game right now is basically at what I call the 80% rule. Things are basically okay, but there are a ton of things that just don’t feel right the more you play. We have done the groundwork of establishing what we feel is a good baseline for balance, but now we begin the “second 80%” of actually making sure things adhere to that baseline. Some of that work has begun for the next beta weekend, but not all of it will be completed.

    Lewis B: Still with the guardian, many people I’ve played alongside believe they are “overpowered”—how do you even begin to approach and combat such statements? A guardian can certainly survive for very long periods of time…

    Jon: There are a few aspects of every profession that are currently wildly overpowered. If you look around on YouTube, you can see examples of mesmer, engineer, ranger, warrior, elementalist, thief, necromancer, and yes, guardian, being overpowered. It is now our job to bring those things into balance with the rest of the game.

    Lewis B: Still with the necromancer and similarly to the guardian, necromancers are commonly seen as unstoppable killing machines through their use of the Death Shroud mechanic and their ability to almost gain a second life. In a control-point situation, this can buy invaluable time. Are there any current concerns with how long they can survive and what role this plays in structured PvP and the focus on defending control points?

    Jon: One of the goals of Guild Wars 2 is that offense is greater than defense in the long run. It doesn’t mean that spec’ing defense is bad or that we don’t want you playing defensively. It means that we want to make sure that stuff dies and there is progress. There is a fine line here, and you have called out two of the biggest offenders on the “too defensive” side of things, but we will not remove this role, as it is fun; it just needs to be viable but not required.

    Lewis B: Lastly, what profession have you been spending the most time with lately?

    Jon: Engineer, guardian, warrior, and thief are the four I have done the most with since the beta weekend. Today will probably be some more thief stuff before I move on to the other four. We try to just continually sweep the entire profession list, brushing up the things that need help.
    I think we all agree Death Shroud is a second life eheh specially in pvp, in PvE I dont care so much, but what about the guardian statements above?
    While I do not agree they are overpowered I will say that they still are not balanced (As of course I said before here).
    I thought it was sneaky on Jon's part to remain pretty utterly neutral about changes or any specifics, but I do think we might see some tuning that someone who answered me on this thread was talking about. "If they see that the guardian needs some changes, we will see those changes soon enough" (something like that).

    I think we might see it soon
    Last edited by Zilong; 2012-07-04 at 02:34 PM.

  10. #1010
    Quote Originally Posted by Zilong View Post
    but what about the guardian statements above?
    While I do not agree they are overpowered I will say that they still are not balanced (As of course I said before here).
    I thought it was sneaky on Jon's part to remain pretty utterly neutral about changes or any specifics, but I do think we might see some tuning that someone who answered me on this thread was talking about. "If they see that the guardian needs some changes, we will see those changes soon enough" (something like that).
    I don't think he was being "sneaky" as much as avoiding telling the interviewer that he doesn't really understand what he's talking about. What Jon Peters basically said was that the BWEs are too short for the sPvP meta game to really develop and for players to try many different builds and iterate on them or develop opposing builds. So although what you went up against in BWE2 may have seemed powerful, you just didn't come up with a good counter to it. Mostly because there wasn't enough time for that to happen.

    Using Starcraft2 as an example, it sometimes seems that once race will come out with a strategy to beat another race. And it looks always guaranteed. But in 2-3 weeks, the other race learns to counter it and then that strategy that may have been perceived as overpowered, is perfectly fine.

    The BWEs shouldn't be used as a good judge of balance. It's more for ArenaNet to test that their systems handle large amounts of people, scale correctly, and also to see how new players learn the game (as opposed to internal testers that have been playing for months).

  11. #1011
    Herald of the Titans Ynna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zilong View Post
    I think we all agree Death Shroud is a second life eheh specially in pvp, in PvE I dont care so much, but what about the guardian statements above?
    While I do not agree they are overpowered I will say that they still are not balanced (As of course I said before here).
    I thought it was sneaky on Jon's part to remain pretty utterly neutral about changes or any specifics, but I do think we might see some tuning that someone who answered me on this thread was talking about. "If they see that the guardian needs some changes, we will see those changes soon enough" (something like that).

    I think we might see it soon
    Death Shroud is really fun. I've played a little bit of Necromancer, but the Death Shroud really made it stand out. (As profession mechanics should do.)

    I also don't agree with Guardians being overpowered, and I don't think (judging from the, admittedly, vague answer) that the devs think it. They've admit that most professions are to powerful, in one area or another, but in beta I would call that balance issues instead of overpowered. I haven't taken notes on most professions (like I did with the Guardian, but I assume that some professions do too much damage, while others are to hard to kills, or others have too much control, just as professions are (unintendedly) too weak in some areas.

    I also don't agree with the assessment that Guardians are too useful to have on your side. In my opinion (and this is rather baseless speculation) that mostly stems from a trinity-mindset. Although, it could be true, I suppose. Support and Control (especially in a PvE context) might be the hardest aspects to balance. And when you have a profession designed to appeal to the support-minded persons, you are pretty much asking for trouble, balance-wise. Although I'm still not convinced that Guardians are truly the support-profession, but I'd need more time with the game to make a structured comment on that.
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  12. #1012
    Quote Originally Posted by Exedore View Post
    I don't think he was being "sneaky" as much as avoiding telling the interviewer that he doesn't really understand what he's talking about. What Jon Peters basically said was that the BWEs are too short for the sPvP meta game to really develop and for players to try many different builds and iterate on them or develop opposing builds. So although what you went up against in BWE2 may have seemed powerful, you just didn't come up with a good counter to it. Mostly because there wasn't enough time for that to happen.

    Using Starcraft2 as an example, it sometimes seems that once race will come out with a strategy to beat another race. And it looks always guaranteed. But in 2-3 weeks, the other race learns to counter it and then that strategy that may have been perceived as overpowered, is perfectly fine.

    The BWEs shouldn't be used as a good judge of balance. It's more for ArenaNet to test that their systems handle large amounts of people, scale correctly, and also to see how new players learn the game (as opposed to internal testers that have been playing for months).
    While I think your argument is strong, but it also means that it can go either way. There wasnt enough time to counter it, but also it wasnt enough time to get that awesome monster build running yet (Which he agreed that it is out there). I know it doesnt apply strictly to the guardian but I'm pretty sure its one of them and very persistant.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ynna View Post
    Death Shroud is really fun. I've played a little bit of Necromancer, but the Death Shroud really made it stand out. (As profession mechanics should do.)

    I also don't agree with Guardians being overpowered, and I don't think (judging from the, admittedly, vague answer) that the devs think it. They've admit that most professions are to powerful, in one area or another, but in beta I would call that balance issues instead of overpowered. I haven't taken notes on most professions (like I did with the Guardian, but I assume that some professions do too much damage, while others are to hard to kills, or others have too much control, just as professions are (unintendedly) too weak in some areas.

    I also don't agree with the assessment that Guardians are too useful to have on your side. In my opinion (and this is rather baseless speculation) that mostly stems from a trinity-mindset. Although, it could be true, I suppose. Support and Control (especially in a PvE context) might be the hardest aspects to balance. And when you have a profession designed to appeal to the support-minded persons, you are pretty much asking for trouble, balance-wise. Although I'm still not convinced that Guardians are truly the support-profession, but I'd need more time with the game to make a structured comment on that.
    I think its on the right track (Death Shroud), certainly exciting but after a while I found myself not using it that much in PvE, and using a free pass card on PvP (My wife hated it hahah)

    For sure its not a overpowered issue, that was never the issue. But Ill say that this part "From my perspective, I’ve found that the guardian at times feels too important to be without in structured PvP and WvW." really hit the spot for me. Its exactly what I think, altho you can roll without one seems alot more difficult to be without (maybe to difficult) specially if the opposing team have them. I still find my worries to be baseless speculation, but its really there since bwe1, and while I agree the trinity-mindset doesn't help, even when you ignore all you know this issue persists. And once is entrances on Pvp and WvW it might just soak to PvE. But I will disagree, guardians are truly the support-profession, its on the name too, other classes can support? hell yeah almost just as good, but imho these classes end up focusing so much in the support area that it almost become a role inside the class, while the guardian doesn't have to become a role, he can pretty much be something else and still be the support of the group. Which I think adds to the "overpower" context that we see even on this interview (which is not really overpowered, just a little off).

    Edit:

    Actually this

    Jon: One of the goals of Guild Wars 2 is that offense is greater than defense in the long run. It doesn’t mean that spec’ing defense is bad or that we don’t want you playing defensively. It means that we want to make sure that stuff dies and there is progress. There is a fine line here, and you have called out two of the biggest offenders on the “too defensive” side of things, but we will not remove this role, as it is fun; it just needs to be viable but not required.
    On a second read, this pretty much even tho not focused on the guardian made me think that actually we have a guardian problem. I dont really know what to say to the first part. Offence being greater than defence, sounds...silly ? Idk. But the second part flares up a new light in my mind. If we do not have a trinity system is only viable that they want to make sure that stuff dies thus making progress. So looking at this, I think if they put the guardian defence a little bit down (and by that I can honestly say even buffing other sides of it) could be the alternative (similar to my "weakness to magic attacks thing"). Because once something is too supportive and durable it becomes the ultimate role for it, not to mention the closest thing to a tank a game can get when its trying to avoid it. As for the last part goes without saying, summarizes what Ive said so far.
    Last edited by Zilong; 2012-07-04 at 10:51 PM.

  13. #1013
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zilong View Post
    While I think your argument is strong, but it also means that it can go either way. There wasnt enough time to counter it, but also it wasnt enough time to get that awesome monster build running yet (Which he agreed that it is out there). I know it doesnt apply strictly to the guardian but I'm pretty sure its one of them and very persistant.




    I think its on the right track (Death Shroud), certainly exciting but after a while I found myself not using it that much in PvE, and using a free pass card on PvP (My wife hated it hahah)

    For sure its not a overpowered issue, that was never the issue. But Ill say that this part "From my perspective, I’ve found that the guardian at times feels too important to be without in structured PvP and WvW." really hit the spot for me. Its exactly what I think, altho you can roll without one seems alot more difficult to be without (maybe to difficult) specially if the opposing team have them. I still find my worries to be baseless speculation, but its really there since bwe1, and while I agree the trinity-mindset doesn't help, even when you ignore all you know this issue persists. And once is entrances on Pvp and WvW it might just soak to PvE. But I will disagree, guardians are truly the support-profession, its on the name too, other classes can support? hell yeah almost just as good, but imho these classes end up focusing so much in the support area that it almost become a role inside the class, while the guardian doesn't have to become a role, he can pretty much be something else and still be the support of the group. Which I think adds to the "overpower" context that we see even on this interview (which is not really overpowered, just a little off).
    And his perspective is wrong. It's strongly influenced by having been playing games with the trinity for so long. People simply need to learn how to stop relying on having a healer at their back, or a tank charging in first.

    You can't really get too accurate a picture of balance from the BWEs, and what imbalance DOES exist, can simply be waved aside as "beta is beta." All their numbers balance is constantly being iterated on in the on-going closed beta by players that actually DO know what they're doing.
    Example: Guardian range in the last beta was extremely underpowered. To the point that they were worthless in sieges. This is not intended, and as such they're correcting the problem.
    Last edited by DrakeWurrum; 2012-07-04 at 10:48 PM.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

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  14. #1014
    Quote Originally Posted by Zilong View Post
    On a second read, this pretty much even tho not focused on the guardian made me think that actually we have a guardian problem. I dont really know what to say to the first part. Offence being greater than defence, sounds...silly ? Idk. But the second part flares up a new light in my mind. If we do not have a trinity system is only viable that they want to make sure that stuff dies thus making progress. So looking at this, I think if they put the guardian defence a little bit down (and by that I can honestly say even buffing other sides of it) could be the alternative (similar to my "weakness to magic attacks thing"). Because once something is too supportive and durable it becomes the ultimate role for it, not to mention the closest thing to a tank a game can get when its trying to avoid it. As for the last part goes without saying, summarizes what Ive said so far.
    Offense > Defense sounds perfectly fine for the reasons Jon Peters said. However, that statement is a bit too broad without going into the details. What they want to happen is that if you attack a control point or a tower that you'll eventually win unless you're killed. They don't want one player to sit there taking hits while being mostly static and never die. They're okay if you take damage slower but are making an active effort to defeat your opponent. That difference is a fine line, so they need to be careful about where they draw it.

  15. #1015
    Finally got around to making the Guardian spotlight. Feel like it's a very effective class, though not as flashy as some others certainly.
    Serious lack of bubble + hearth though.


  16. #1016
    My wife and I have been working on our Guardian builds abit more recently and I thought I would share mine. She will be running Mace w/ shield or focus and Staff build. I look for that to change as she plays the character more, but overall she wants to be a support healer.

    My build focuses abit more on damage but still also leans more towards a support healing build. This build is for PvE mainly, but I can also see it having some viability in WvW and Spvp if played right

    http://gw2.luna-atra.fr/skills_tool/...6g7g7h7n7pi0j4

    It's a Great Sword + Mace / Shield build that focuses on Larger Symbols and making them heal on top of what they already do. The symbols also will cause the enemy to be vulnerable, making it even more helpful. The reason I chose the three utility skills that I did is because I was trying to pick a few different ones from my wife, so we could maximize our duoing & group potential.

    The main point of it is to allow me to do fair damage while also being in the fray to support and keep other melee alive through some healing and protection applications.

    I really really like shouts ( I dont use any in this build) however the great thing about this build is that by simply swapping a few major traits in the Honor Line(without having to pay to respec) I can make it a shout build that turns conditions into boons. Shouts to me are more versatile for WvW and Pvp simply because I can use them to help people on the run and not have to worry about placement. If I turned it into a shout build i would of course swap the Major Traits around in the Virtue line as well because they would no longer be practicle to have.

    I'm sure I'll tweak this build abit more, but it has been fun making my alt nontheless (main is an offensive support shout warrior).

  17. #1017
    Herald of the Titans Ynna's Avatar
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    It's really more a support build with some damage capabilities rather than a damage build with some support options. I don't want to tell you how to make your character, but I would certainly swap Healing Breeze for something else. If you plan on playing (almost) exclusively with your wife (who you say is going as support as possible), you might want to invest a bit more in damage (or control), since you can slack a bit in support, since she's focusing on that.
    Retired Holy Priest
    As a rule, I try to act on the internet as I would in real life. If I have offended you, feel free to point it out. Unless I meant to offend you, I will probably apologize.

  18. #1018
    Quote Originally Posted by Ynna View Post
    It's really more a support build with some damage capabilities rather than a damage build with some support options. I don't want to tell you how to make your character, but I would certainly swap Healing Breeze for something else. If you plan on playing (almost) exclusively with your wife (who you say is going as support as possible), you might want to invest a bit more in damage (or control), since you can slack a bit in support, since she's focusing on that.
    Is healing breeze under performing atm?

    I may invest more in damage by taking away from the Virtues line and sliding it into the Radiance Line.

    I'm waiting for bWE 3 so I can see if they have improved spirit weapons and if they have swapped around any of the stats in the trait lines. I'm most interested in shouts and spirit weapons for Guardians but in the last two BWE's I found spirit weapons lacking. Besides PvE we are really interested in WvW and being able to bring support to our team mates during those battles. For WvW bringing more support wouldn't be a bad thing since I fully expect many people to try and build glass cannons in the beginning.

  19. #1019
    Herald of the Titans Ynna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnnoDomini View Post
    Is healing breeze under performing atm?
    It's not that Healing Breeze is underperforming, it's that the area it heals is awkward to aim (especially if your melee) and if you don't get a couple of people in it, you would have been better of with any other healing skill.
    Retired Holy Priest
    As a rule, I try to act on the internet as I would in real life. If I have offended you, feel free to point it out. Unless I meant to offend you, I will probably apologize.

  20. #1020
    Quote Originally Posted by Ynna View Post
    It's not that Healing Breeze is underperforming, it's that the area it heals is awkward to aim (especially if your melee) and if you don't get a couple of people in it, you would have been better of with any other healing skill.
    Gotcha, thanks for the heads up. If I don't like it I will use the signet, since the passive is also very useful.

    I may work on a shout build based in Zeal / Radiance / honour for Greatsword and Hammer. Might be fun to lock someone in my area with the hammer and then swap to Greatsword for the hard hitting whirling wrath.

    Does anyone know if the trait to make symbols larger makes a huge difference in the symbol size? If it does, then it is worth it. If not I may stay away from a symbol build for anything other than PvE.
    Last edited by AnnoDomini; 2012-07-16 at 07:47 PM.

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