View Poll Results: Do you pirate?

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  • Yes, because Im poor

    543 32.89%
  • Yes, but not because Im poor

    784 47.49%
  • No, its immoral

    192 11.63%
  • No, but its not immoral

    132 8.00%

Thread: Pirating

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  1. #581
    Pirating isn't the problem, its the symptom.

    People pirate because the industry doesn't provide a reasonable alternative.
    People don't want to pay big bucks for a blue ray they'll watch 10 times over the course of the next 10 years. They don't want to pay big bucks for a game they'll play through once now, and once more in a couple of years, and they certainly don't want to buy a full album for one good song. I don't want my house to be clotted with DVDs and CDs - hell I don't even own a stereo.

    We need a service that allows digital, cheap access to our entire entertainment collection anywhere we want, in high def and on all platforms, provided there is an internet connection. They could even include single screenings of new movies for slightly reduced price of a cinema ticket. I'd pay a monthly fee for that kind of service.. hell yes. The industry needs to get over itself and start accepting that people are tired of its business model.

  2. #582
    Stood in the Fire Marcis's Avatar
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    What really pisses me off - when i buy DVD for my kid i have to listen to "you shouldnt download movies, pirating is baad, mkay..." preaching before move itself.
    WTF?! I paid for your disc, spare me the lecture!

  3. #583
    Quote Originally Posted by Armass View Post
    Almost half the population that has a PC does it in my country.
    yeah, companies are just mad we are all internet friends and let each other borrow our stuff...

    companies are against internet friends borrowing stuff from each other i guess and think its only ok for friends to borrow stuff IRL...

    /shrug...
    Last edited by crica; 2012-02-28 at 02:27 PM.

  4. #584
    Piracy is not the same as physically stealing something. Piracy is duplicating, the original item is not stolen.

  5. #585
    Quote Originally Posted by ita View Post
    Sweden. And before you say anything, it is illegal to SHARE but not simply download.
    Last time I heard anyrthing, its illigeal to share and download in sweden^^
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  6. #586
    I don't do much but I get the odd bit of music and I watch a few movies online. I will say that I like to buy movies in the store especially ones I've already seen and loved.

    I know theres no point justifying it and the people that do try look silly. All this pirating is what is leading to these SOPA-type acts. We only have ourselves to blame. These things weren't created to be free

  7. #587
    Quote Originally Posted by Ogretron View Post
    1) Not really. I have never thought "Oh geeze, I really want this game but my internet is soooo slow. Time to upgrade for this one reason alone". I've downloaded massive files on dial up before, this wouldn't stop me. My internet speed is where it's at because of online games. Nothing else.
    So the hours you spent on dial up for that massive file didn't show up on your phone bill?

    People base their internet speed on their usage. If they download and upload a lot, they'll buy a higher speed.

    2) Really? The time is money argument?
    I remember when it could take hours to download a few songs, and sort through them one by one because many were incomplete or bugged. Only people with too much time and too little money would bother.

    3) Maybe starting out, but after a while the risk is much lower.
    True, but the risk never becomes as low as when you buy only legit.

    Unless you're a customer of Sony, of course. Then you pay and get guaranteed malware.

  8. #588
    Immortal Winter Blossom's Avatar
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    I don't do it myself, but I do borrow movies that other people download. Maybe I'm just as bad?

  9. #589
    Old God PizzaSHARK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kakokun View Post
    Piracy is not the same as physically stealing something. Piracy is duplicating, the original item is not stolen.
    Theft is theft, whether you steal an original and make copies of it (not quite counterfeiting) or whether you just keep stealing many originals. It's beside the point.

    If you are pirating games, music, movies, books, etc, YOU ARE CONTRIBUTING TO THE PROBLEM. As long as people are stealing shit, the people in charge of these stupid DRM systems and copyright laws are just gonna point to those people and use it as evidence as how THEY don't need to change shit, people just need to stop stealing.

    Stop stealing, watch them still piss blood versus services like Netflix and Gamefly and then they either wise up and change their methods or they die and someone better adapted to the market takes their place.

    yeah, companies are just mad we are all internet friends and let each other borrow our stuff...

    companies are against internet friends borrowing stuff from each other i guess and think its only ok for friends to borrow stuff IRL...

    /shrug...
    Torrenting games is not "sharing."
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    The best you people can do is throw insults and lay your perspective on what a real adult is onto me but I will continue to reject them. And you will try and try again, force me into submission but I will continue to press on.
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  10. #590
    The Lightbringer Kevyne-Shandris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Hell, the Gaming Messiah himself once said that piracy is a service problem, not a cost problem.
    I loved Warren Spector's statement on piracy (it's sig quality!):
    "I never minded piracy. Anyone who minds about piracy is full of sh*t. Anyone who pirates your game wasn't going to buy it anyway!"
    ~ Warren Spector
    From the #1 Cata review on Amazon.com: "Blizzard's greatest misstep was blaming players instead of admitting their mistakes. They've convinced half of the population that the other half are unskilled whiners, causing a permanent rift in the community."
    Blizzard's blame game in action: Deleting 6,100+ of Kevyne's posts and threads from the WoW forums.

  11. #591
    Old God PizzaSHARK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celticmoon View Post
    I don't do it myself, but I do borrow movies that other people download. Maybe I'm just as bad?
    Assuming they got those movies through piracy, yes, you're just as bad even if you didn't do the act yourself. Guilt by association, basically.

    ---------- Post added 2012-02-28 at 08:35 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevyne-Shandris View Post
    I loved Warren Spector's statement on piracy (it's sig quality!):
    Warren Spector? No, he's just like... an archangel or something. Gabe Newell is the Gaming Messiah you silly goose. I'd guess John Romero is the Gaming Antichrist. I'd say that's Bobby Kotick but he's not actually a game developer.
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    The best you people can do is throw insults and lay your perspective on what a real adult is onto me but I will continue to reject them. And you will try and try again, force me into submission but I will continue to press on.
    MMOC IRC!

  12. #592
    Quote Originally Posted by Krolikn View Post
    I don't do much but I get the odd bit of music and I watch a few movies online. I will say that I like to buy movies in the store especially ones I've already seen and loved.

    I know theres no point justifying it and the people that do try look silly. All this pirating is what is leading to these SOPA-type acts. We only have ourselves to blame. These things weren't created to be free
    if i could not get a copy from a friend for free or borrow it from a friend for free, i would not pay money for it

    they would not get our money even if SOPA were enacted - they would be making the same amount of money they are now if no one were able to easily copy/loan their stuff

    the only difference would be is how much harder it would be for pirates to MAKE money from their stuff

  13. #593
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Pirating music or games or movies or whatever is absolutely no fucking different from walking down to a convenience store and just walking in and shoplifting whatever the fuck you want.
    I don't agree. A song in the internet is not a physical commodity and can exist in as many copies as it needs to.
    If you steal from a store, the store now has one less item, and you have one more. The store now needs to purchase another product and stand to lose exactly the cost of that item + shipping on the replacement item.

    If you download a song, the original doesn't disappear. You just *also* have a copy now.
    Is it stealing? Possibly. Is it the same? No.

    The real question is - would I have purchased this digital commodity in any case? In the large amount of cases where the answer to this is 'no', no one really loses out, do they?

    Moreover, I might download a movie that I'd kinda sorta want to see, but I certainly wouldn't go and buy a DVD I haven't seen and I would never go to the cinema to catch a movie I'd only 'kinda' wanna see. You can claim that I've infringed some intellectual rights by viewing a film I was not supposed to, but you can't say that by pirating you miss out in revenue by default, because you simply don't. In some cases you do, but the industry is certainly making the problem a lot larger than it is.

  14. #594
    The Lightbringer Collegeguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skavau View Post
    Uh dude, its simple.

    You pirate the stuff and its convenient, instant and watchable.

    You get the DVD and you have to sit through crap. Of course it isn't the sole reason people pirate and for many it isn't even a reason at all but it is an obvious example of the pathetic service provided by the content providers that whine so much about piracy. If you want to avoid adverts it remains (at least in some cases) better to pirate than actually buy the product. That you missed the point entirely is astonishing.[COLOR="red"]
    That's ok. I don't want to understand that type of logic of "pathetic services." Please don't explain it again. Hundreds of professors in business already rolled in their graves the first time.

  15. #595
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevyne-Shandris View Post
    I loved Warren Spector's statement on piracy (it's sig quality!):

    Anyone who pirates your game wasn't going to buy it anyway!"
    ~ Warren Spector
    this is true for me and everyone i know about anything we get for free from the internet...

    i share what i buy with everyone on the internet as well - i am not just a taker ^_^

  16. #596
    Old God PizzaSHARK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manbeartruck View Post
    I don't agree. A song in the internet is not a physical commodity and can exist in as many copies as it needs to.
    If you steal from a store, the store now has one less item, and you have one more. The store now needs to purchase another product and stand to lose exactly the cost of that item + shipping on the replacement item.

    If you download a song, the original doesn't disappear. You just *also* have a copy now.
    Is it stealing? Possibly. Is it the same? No.
    Yeah, you're right. It's stealing, but you're correct in that it's not quite the same. The internet and digital mediums are special that way, and it's one of the reasons why current copyright laws and DRM and crap are rapidly showing themselves to be outdated.

    The real question is - would I have purchased this digital commodity in any case? In the large amount of cases where the answer to this is 'no', no one really loses out, do they?
    Debatable. If you downloaded an album, realized that all the tracks except the one you wanted are garbage and thus wouldn't have bought the album, you actually come out ahead while the music label loses money from a sale it wouldn't have gotten anyway. The obvious solution is to stop putting shitty music on albums as filler, and to be fair we're going right back to the days of vinyl where you're largely buying songs individually again.

    In regards to that (buying individual bits and pieces of a larger whole), if you wanna make sure the song is worth the money... shit man, go listen to it on Youtube.

    Moreover, I might download a movie that I'd kinda sorta want to see, but I certainly wouldn't go and buy a DVD I haven't seen and I would never go to the cinema to catch a movie I'd only 'kinda' wanna see. You can claim that I've infringed some intellectual rights by viewing a film I was not supposed to, but you can't say that by pirating you miss out in revenue by default, because you simply don't. In some cases you do, but the industry is certainly making the problem a lot larger than it is.
    I know. I absolutely agree - I'm not defending the current system AT ALL. The current system is in the state it's in because the old farts in charge of the major associations like the MPAA and RIAA aren't aware of how much more money they could be fucking making if they'd just realize that they need to adapt to the new market system.

    It's ironic. Back in the day, you could walk into a store (for me it was usually a Radio Shack) and buy demos of various games - in fact, I remember buying a little 3.5" floppy with the Warcraft demo on it for a couple bucks, which later resulted in me (okay, well, my dad; I think I was like 9 at the time) picking the game up. I wouldn't really disagree with this kind of thing happening today. Assuming the demo is actually representative of the finished product (i.e. not some piece of crap that hasn't been updated since the early beta versions of the game), I wouldn't be adverse to paying $2 or $3 to "test drive" the game before buying it. If it turns out I don't enjoy it, I'm not out any significant amount of money and the developer still made a little bit off the transaction.

    Even if that doesn't work out, things like Steam sales are a great solution. I might not buy a game for its full $60 price, but I might pick it up during a sale for $30, and if I have even a small amount of interest in it you can almost be guaranteed I'll snap it up for $10 or $15. Sure, you didn't make the $60 you wanted but you still made SOME money, and that's still a LOT better than making NO money because they decided not to put up with your stupid DRM bullshit and pirated it instead (eat a dick, Ubisoft.)

    But it all comes back to the players. By pirating, you're extending the problem, not solving it. If you really do care about getting rid of these outdated business models and copyright laws, you have to stop pirating. Period.

    ---------- Post added 2012-02-28 at 08:47 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by crica View Post
    this is true for me and everyone i know about anything we get for free from the internet...

    i share what i buy with everyone on the internet as well - i am not just a taker ^_^
    You're causing the problem though! Sharing a Steam account with a good buddy is one thing, but torrenting a game or movie is completely different!
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    The best you people can do is throw insults and lay your perspective on what a real adult is onto me but I will continue to reject them. And you will try and try again, force me into submission but I will continue to press on.
    MMOC IRC!

  17. #597
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Shitbags like the RIAA and MPAA (and EA) need to get their shit together and fix their business models. The only way you're going to get that to happen is by not giving them your money, and by not fucking stealing their shit. If you steal their shit, all they have to do is snap their fingers, say they lost however many millions of box sales due to piracy, and blame the players rather than themselves for the problem.
    That's hopelessly naive.

    Suppose we all do as you say, we stop giving the RIAA and MPAA (and EA) our money, and don't pirate their products either. So we watch fewer movies, and spend our time on other things, say, books. Then all they have to do is snap their fingers, say they lost however many millions of box sales due to reading, and blame the readers rather than themselves for the problem. See how it works? They can always blame someone.

    If it hadn't been for piracy, I doubt we would have seen the online direct-dowload music stores we have now. The RIAA would have much preferred to stick with its old businessmodel. Piracy teaches companies what kind of services they have to provide to attract paying customers. MMO's, for example, do very well. Starcraft II also offers some attractive online services.

  18. #598
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    You're causing the problem though!
    causing what problem?

    if we stopped sharing everything we buy with each other, what problem would go away?

    the companies would still not make anymore money from us since we would not buy it if others did not share it with us...

  19. #599
    The Lightbringer Kevyne-Shandris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Warren Spector? No, he's just like... an archangel or something. Gabe Newell is the Gaming Messiah you silly goose. I'd guess John Romero is the Gaming Antichrist. I'd say that's Bobby Kotick but he's not actually a game developer.
    Silly, Warren Spector is like THE god in gaming. While John Romero was having his break down in the Dallas Ion Storm Studio with Daikatana, Spector was at the Austin Ion Storm Studio and quietly released Deus Ex. The rest is history.

    And he made news again.

    http://www.gamespot.com/news/warren-...-gdcas-6349767

    Dammit, will a MMO publisher pick him up???????
    From the #1 Cata review on Amazon.com: "Blizzard's greatest misstep was blaming players instead of admitting their mistakes. They've convinced half of the population that the other half are unskilled whiners, causing a permanent rift in the community."
    Blizzard's blame game in action: Deleting 6,100+ of Kevyne's posts and threads from the WoW forums.

  20. #600
    Copyright infringement is as old as mankind really.

    Taken from Wiki :

    Copyright infringement was first practiced in the taverns of European inns during the middle ages. Minstrels would routinely rip off other minstrels by listening to their music and singing and then reproducing it themselves at a later date without even so much as giving credit to the original minstrel. Some minstrels defended this practice by claiming that the music had been released into the public domain, and thus was fair game for anyone who wanted to use it. They pointed out that Homer did not intend for only a single person to be able to orate the Iliad or the Odyssey as the queues to see his shows would have become too long. Instead he intended for other performers and orators to copy his work and give it to anyone that asked. However other minstrels countered this by claiming that they weren't in the business for the art, they were in it for the money.

    At the same time writers in China were experiencing their own copyright infringement plague thanks to the invention of printing. The famous legend Journey to the West was appropriated by numerous writers who proceeded to write and print their own copies of the story like a group of fan fiction writers. Eventually the characters mutated from their normal god-demon like origins into becoming a really hairy man who fought with a stick, a pig who fought with a rake, and a fish who fought with a shovel. This copyright infringement continues on to the present day in numerous forms. Some cultural experts call this phenomenon 'inspiration', but common sense states that any use of someone else's intellectual property is a copyright violation.


    So basicly, they are trying to beat a Monster with new Bills like SOPA/PIPA or ACTA which simply cannot be beaten.
    If they close all the big Public Adresses like kino.to etc, they simply force the People who run those pages underground, but they will never stop.

    The only way to actually beat "pirates", is to be better.

    A steaming Service for brandnew Cinema Movies, for like 5$ a Movie in HD.
    Same for new Shows on TV, selling Worldwide...for 1-2$ a Episode.
    Humble Indie Bundle Games... pay as much as you like.

    But all that is Dreaming really, the Big Companys rather send Lawyer Armys on poor Kids who ripped off a Game or Movie.
    So their fat ass Managers like Kotik & co earn more Cash for another Ferrarie or two.

    Another funny fact.

    If you sell 100g Marihuana in Germany and get caught, you go to Jail for 2y 6m.
    If you rape & sexually harrass 64 Kids in School (Happen in Leverkusen) you go to Jail 2y 6m.

    If you get caught running a Webpage like Kino.to you go to jail 5 years.
    I would like to apologize to anyone i have not offended.
    Please be patient. I will get to you shortly.

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