Have you ever seen a GHOST????

[Vizardlorde]

Let me ask those who say "no because ghosts dont exist" something? Have you ever seen ball lightning?... Didnt think so
unexplained phenomenon cant just be regarded as fake because there's no evidence to support it, it should just be unknown until we definitly figure out what exactly caused it.

[Chaochamp]

Nope, and I don't believe in them.

[Catta]

Let me ask those who say "no because ghosts dont exist" something? Have you ever seen ball lightning?... Didnt think so
unexplained phenomenon cant just be regarded as fake because there's no evidence to support it, it should just be unknown until we definitly figure out what exactly caused it.

And yet you wont extend that benefit of the doubt to all theories which isnt supported by evidence...

[Pua]

And yet while you persist in claiming it has been said multiple times you have now gone 3 times without bothering to answer the supposedly easily answered question as it has already been said - i ask again - in your next post - Tell me what a machine cannot measure that a human can percieve which isnt something psychological

Wait, are you honestly that ignorant that you can't see the answer to your question in the first paragraph of the most recent post you chose to quote (undoubtedly without bothering to read)?

If you are, please tell me where you were schooled so that my son never has the misfortune of going there.

Science cannot measure, nor quantify, the self-evident existence of subjective experience.

I don't have a crayon to put this more boldly.

What's even funnier, is that I know your next statement before you type it.

"Hurr, that's psychological, durr".

But you're deliberately changing the goalposts because YOU don't like the fact that there's an answer to your inane question. Its previous incarnation was perception, pure and simple. Then it became something that was perceptible, but not psychological for an individual person. Now we've moved to not psychological at all, when you're asking a question that's rooted in paraPSYCHOLOGY.

Do you realise how you're making yourself look? All you need now is to change your avatar to a painted smile, water-flower and squeaky nose to complete the image.

Now please get back in the corner with the safety-scissors and glitter.

[Deleted]

Years ago in school, we went on a weekend trip to a really old mansion that my school used for activity weekends. At breakfast one morning I thought I saw a white figure pass through a wood lined wall. I was freaked out! But it could've been because we'd been told previously that the place had spirits so it was aaaallll in the mind.

My grandad told me years ago, that he used to see the ghost of an old man in a car that he used to own when he looked through the rear view mirror but never when he turned around. He sad he always smiled and he looked peaceful.

I still remain skeptical.

[MasterDinadan]

When you think of how much of what we are is tied to physical properties, I just can't fathom the idea of people's experiences being geniune ghost encounters.
Think about it, people suffer brain damage that can completely change their personality or alter their senses. Everything we think, feel, and even experience is tied to our bodies. If any of our consciousness remains when the body is lifeless, I can't imagine that this presence would retain any of the memories or emotions it had during life. Those experiences die along with the body.

It seems far more likely that ghost encounters are just people imagining things or rationalizing things they can't explain. Sometimes when you experience something you can't explain, you mentally connect it with something from your past (a loved one for instance) and this could cause you to feel as if they were somehow present. It is much more likely that this is just the brain's coping mechanism, rather than a phenomenon which flies in the phase of modern science.

Just my two cents...

[Pua]

When you think of how much of what we are is tied to physical properties, I just can't fathom the idea of people's experiences being geniune ghost encounters.
Think about it, people suffer brain damage that can completely change their personality or alter their senses. Everything we think, feel, and even experience is tied to our bodies. If any of our consciousness remains when the body is lifeless, I can't imagine that this presence would retain any of the memories or emotions it had during life. Those experiences die along with the body.

It seems far more likely that ghost encounters are just people imagining things or rationalizing things they can't explain. Sometimes when you experience something you can't explain, you mentally connect it with something from your past (a loved one for instance) and this could cause you to feel as if they were somehow present. It is much more likely that this is just the brain's coping mechanism, rather than a phenomenon which flies in the phase of modern science.

Just my two cents...

This is a very sensible two cents.

Remember: I'm not railing against people saying they don't believe in ghosts. To me, that's a rational conclusion based on a lack of observable evidence, and no credible paranormal investigator would disagree.

My problem is the assertion that ghosts "can't" exist, a premise clearly leading to closed-mindedness because it's a stance already predetermined to discount evidence to the contrary of it whether it's compelling or not.

[Catta]

Wait, are you honestly that ignorant that you can't see the answer to your question in the first paragraph of the most recent post you chose to quote (undoubtedly without bothering to read)?

If you are, please tell me where you were schooled so that my son never has the misfortune of going there.

Science cannot measure, nor quantify, the self-evident existence of subjective experience.

I don't have a crayon to put this more boldly.

What's even funnier, is that I know your next statement before you type it.

"Hurr, that's psychological, durr".

But you're deliberately changing the goalposts because YOU don't like the fact that there's an answer to your inane question. Its previous incarnation was perception, pure and simple. Then it became something that was perceptible, but not psychological for an individual person. Now we've moved to not psychological at all, when you're asking a question that's rooted in paraPSYCHOLOGY.

Do you realise how you're making yourself look? All you need now is to change your avatar to a painted smile, water-flower and squeaky nose to complete the image.

Now please get back in the corner with the safety-scissors and glitter.

So... If ghosts cannot be measured in the real world but you claim its part of the subjective experience then guess what we call it... hallucinations

---------- Post added 2012-03-01 at 11:29 AM ----------

This is a very sensible two cents.

Remember: I'm not railing against people saying they don't believe in ghosts. To me, that's a rational conclusion based on a lack of observable evidence, and no credible paranormal investigator would disagree.

My problem is the assertion that ghosts "can't" exist, a premise clearly leading to closed-mindedness because it's a stance already predetermined to discount evidence to the contrary of it whether it's compelling or not.

The only thing we say is that there is no evidence for them... You are giving something with no evidence undue credence - You dont give that to leprechauns, djinns, demons etc... But these are GHOSTS if you dont believe them you must be close minded

[loki504]

didn't see them. but one night i was in my new house. my cd player went on(unplugged in a box). i was with my wife and it was like wtf??. got it out of the box plugged in and played the same song. really scary.

[Pua]

This is my last direct response to you, Cattaclysmic, because you’re just boring me now. Every one of your questions has been answered, typically more than once, which only sees you revert to a previous question and shoehorn an unrelated answer onto it.

It doesn’t impress anyone.

So... If ghosts cannot be measured in the real world but you claim its part of the subjective experience then guess what we call it... hallucinations

1) Measureable paranormal (a definition we’ve already covered) occurrences DO happen, but that does not mean they are supernatural; merely unexplained. This is why paranormal investigators are interested in them and I’ve been pretty careful about my use of terminology.

2) Recently, you were specifically asking for paranormal occurrences that couldn’t be measured, and I gave you one; subjective experience. Subjective experiences are not necessarily hallucinations, and any reasonable scientist would concede that such a stance is stupid.

Note:

This does not imply that subjective experiences can NOT be hallucinatory, merely that they MAY not be.

It depends on the experience under discussion.

These two examples are not mutually inclusive, but you’re trying to paint them as if they are because admitting that “ghosts” might exist obviously causes you distress. Why else would you be zealously trying to force everyone into your view of the world, when even practicing scientists don’t subscribe to said view?

Such obvious subconscious discomfort with the notion of the paranormal only highlights that you don’t essentially believe what you’re saying yourself. You seem to only value opinions that others can validate on your behalf and, for that, you have my pity.

One of the members of my team claims low-level clairsentience. We’ve spoken about it at length and he simply says “judge me by my results, not what you can make logical sense of”.

His results are compelling, to say the least.

The only thing we say is that there is no evidence for them... You are giving something with no evidence undue credence - You dont give that to leprechauns, djinns, demons etc... But these are GHOSTS if you dont believe them you must be close minded

Saying you don’t believe in ghosts isn’t close-minded, because it’s a sensible decision in lieu of evidence.

Saying ghosts can’t exist IS close-minded, because you’re dismissing the concept out of hand regardless of evidence.

There is a difference.

Evidence relating to leprechauns, djinn or demons can all be explained with scientific reasoning and psychological practice; a good example of this is the clairaudient who thinks he’s developing psychic abilities thanks to the common phenomena of hearing his mind call his name before going to sleep.

We now know that’s the result of the hypnopompic state in the vast majority of cases.

Evidence relating to the paranormal or parapsychological (two different fields, I might add) does not fall into this category due to it often defying conventional explanation.

We can measure something like an EMF fluctuation happening, but cannot attribute the cause. We can loosely measure differing subjective experiences, but we cannot attribute the cause. Arguing that they’re not paranormal because they must have a scientific cause would require evidence of said scientific cause.

Often, none is found. If you choose to spend any time in the field, you will soon figure that out.

Like I said, I no longer have any interest in debating this with you. Every argument you’ve coined has been weighed, measured and found wanting. I’m more than happy to continue this discussion if you wish to bring something new to it, but I’m not going to respond to mindless repetition from behind intellectual sandbags.

Should that be what you continue resorting to, this conversation is over.

[Elexo]

When I was ~15 for a short time I thought I had seen a ghost and immediately became a believer.
Within a few weeks I became more rational and concluded that when the active mind of a 15 year old lacks sleep it might create an image.

Since then I've become very skeptical about anyone saying anything about ghosts.
I mean if random people see them all the time surely we'd have actual evidence by now?

Most ghost sightings are either after someone lost someone or when they're in a creepy enviroment.
Why would a ghost want to hang out in a creepy enviroment? Or did they make the enviroment creepy somehow?

That said, I'm not closing my ears and eyes and shouting; lalala, I can't hear you.
If one day there will be actual compelling evidence I will admit that I was wrong.

[palamanian]

Well we've been on this planet for how many thousands of years and no one has seen one yet, nor has anyone got a picture/video of one in the last 50 years. I also believe Santa Claus is real.

[Morae]

Well we've been on this planet for how many thousands of years and no one has seen one yet, nor has anyone got a picture/video of one in the last 50 years. I also believe Santa Claus is real.

Really?

What did I see then that one day years ago? Transparent white human shape at the end of a corridor that just stood there. What do you call that? I'd define it as a ghost (just a definition. Not saying it is remains of dead person, ect.).

I also over years have seen many videos in which really weird stuff happens and I'm not talking about any light balls or noises or anything like that. I have looked for stuff that isn't subjective. I tried looking for these certain videos from youtube recently for a similar thread, but the amount of videos (good or bad) is so excessive that I couldn't find any of the ones I was looking for.



Oh and more of that "no one has seen one yet". I don't think there is any culture that doesn't have some sort of word that means "ghost". Not to mention similarities. People have always seen these things. If they ahd not seen, why would they even define such thing as "ghost" ?

[Deleted]

Really?

What did I see then that one day years ago? Transparent white human shape at the end of a corridor that just stood there. What do you call that? I'd define it as a ghost (just a definition. Not saying it is remains of dead person, ect.).

I also over years have seen many videos in which really weird stuff happens and I'm not talking about any light balls or noises or anything like that. I have looked for stuff that isn't subjective. I tried looking for these certain videos from youtube recently for a similar thread, but the amount of videos (good or bad) is so excessive that I couldn't find any of the ones I was looking for. So sorry, can't link any good ones for you.

What's more likely - the laws of nature were temporarily suspended right at that place, at that time, in your favor - or you saw something that your mind interpreted to be something else?

[Doktor Faustus]

Reality is how each of us perceives it, remember that.

Humanity always fills in the blanks in there knowledge with what seems to fit best for the individual.

[Anakso]

I really don't think they exist.

And memories from childhood are not accurate at all, for example when I was about 5 or 6, I was convinced I was being stalked by a humanoid fox. I remember looking through the closed curtains one morning and seeing his shadow on the other side so I hid under the covers (clearly covers save you from anything) and when I went on long car journeys and you could see a vast distance away from the road, the land miles away appeared to be moving slower than the ground near us, and I was convinced for some reason it was the fox that was hiding underneath the ground and making it move slower.

However, now I'm grown up, I don't believe a humanoid fox was stalking me.

[psychedelica]

I've woken up many times absolutely sure I saw a person next to my bed. I just don't see why you'd think it was "ghosts". It just a person waking up from deep sleep in the middle of the night with their brain playing tricks on them. And just about every house has had a deceased person living there.


Again, you only see "ghosts" because you want to see them. I only see funny effect that could be caused by dozens of different things much more plausible than "a dead person walking around as a misty shape".

if you read what i wrote it says my aunt and Uncle saw the same thing a man who vanished... sure ive seen things that resemble human but i notice after awhile its something forming a person in the dark example a chair with cloth. and ive seen one myself and it wassent something ive seen in my life. it was moving a direction beside me with usual old cloth 1900s, and again it might be my brain however i wassent on drugs or alcohol or anything else, because i was a child.

the video:
i dident say it was real but its one of them i think is plausible, ghost has been said to come in different shape, either totally visual or mist shaped hell even shadow people. but you wont ever change your mind if you don't see for yourself.

[Catta]

i dident say it was real but its one of them i think is plausible, ghost has been said to come in different shape, either totally visual or mist shaped hell even shadow people. but you wont ever change your mind if you don't see for yourself.

it could also be a demon... Or a leprechaun... Or Loki... or a Djinn... An incubus...

There is no real evidence for this other than anecdotes - we have to take your word that you all saw the exact same thing and havent been goading each other on - and its very often culturally biased what people "see"

[minro]

floating white fluffy things....

I call it steam or fog.... Or maybe a cloud.

How silly would that be of me to believe that I have a ghost coming out of my teapot every night on the stove....

[psychedelica]

I sometimes really enjoy when people aren't the best English speakers. This is one of those times.

ENGAGE GHOST FIGHTING POSITION

thank you for the useless comment -.-

ive ment describing he goes up from the bed and position himself in a fighting position or defense to be more accurate. and if you look into the left of my avatar its cleary says Norway, meaning im not from a English speaking country.

and i dont think you should be afraid of people believe in this stuff anyway. People believe in God i dont, do i bash them for believing something like that? nope because I am not a douchbag who like to make people to see what I believe is real to something we cannot see.