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  1. #1

    What's wrong with my rotaion?

    Guys i need some pro. help here.. i don't wanna make a "Wall of text" so i'll cut to the case..


    Today i got kicked from the raid team in my guild because my dps is "to low" but i followed every rotation guild i could dig up, and i special made my interface for tracking my dot's and have a cast-bar where i can watch where to "clip" the casting and so on ..
    __________________________________________________________________________________________ ___



    Here is some information about my character, UI, and rotation ..

    Armory:
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...mill/Gz/simple

    __________________________________________________________________________________________ ___

    Addons for tracking dot's

    Shadow Timer


    Quartz 3

    (Where i clip the casting exactly where the image show above)

    __________________________________________________________________________________________ ___

    Rotation:

    Starting cast [Mind Flay]
    until i get [Shadow Orbs]
    then i cast a [Mind Blast]
    for activating [Empowered Shadow]
    Then i dot up with [Vampiric Touch] -> [Devouring Plague] -> [Shadow Word: Pain]

    Then i keep up my dot's up at-least 98% the time, every time [Mind Blast] is off cool-down i cast it, followed with a [Shadow Word: Death]

    I use [Archangel] when it proc's and i always have my [Shadowfiend] out...

    __________________________________________________________________________________________ ___


    On a dummy i can manage

    http://host.uddberg.com/images/756dps.jpg

    on a random 10man Madness of Deathwing i can manage around 40k / 45k

    __________________________________________________________________________________________ ___



    My problem here is now, is there anything i'm major failing at? or is it my gear that is "low" because my Guildmaster said that 22k was no problem for him when he was level 80, if that's correct i have to fail at some point "MAJOR"

    I'm using
    www.askmrrobot.com for optimizing my reforge, tried Reforge lite addon to, but seems a bit unstable ..

    http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/eu/tarren_mill/gz






    I hope i will wake up tomorrow with a gently soul making my future in world of Warcraft a better place as dps..

    Thanks in advance


    Nikolaj "GZ" Uddberg



    ** BTW sorry for my bad bad bad english **

  2. #2
    High Overlord
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    The Overthere, Tunare
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    190
    Start with SW:P, doesn't it gain the empowered shadow (Mind blast+orb buff) when it gets refreshed by a flay anyway?

    Not that that's a 'giant' DPS boost, but it will get it started earlier and give you slightly more chance of getting orbs at the start for that first mind blast.

    As for 40-45k on madness, our 10m group has 5 dps spread as follows according to WoL DPS(effective) measurement from our last kill:
    47441>46092>40243>39601>38731. Classes in that order were rogue, enh shaman,feral druid(378s with like 4 LFR pieces at that time), aff warlock, marks hunter.

    For normal mode, you are more than fine.

    If your GM is saying its bad because he had 22k in the end of wrath, he's an idiot. The way stat points worked then versus now, scaling of encounters and the humongous ICC buff are why it seems like dps now isn't better than then by as much as expected.

    >100 points of a stat to make 1% (like hit haste etc)
    back then it was like 34 points. So stats scaled up, its not like having 30% haste then and now you get 3000 more haste rating and so you're at 120% haste. No. Doesn't work that way.

    <edit>
    Also; your English is fine. Better than most native speakers. I myself am likely worse.

    So your GM is a fool if he is really going to compare apples and oranges.
    Last edited by Rotesbart; 2012-02-27 at 10:50 PM.

  3. #3
    Since you have 4 pc, you can actually be doing the 4pc opener...

    Basically, with 4 peice t13, you'll want to be mind spiking when your shadow fiend is available.

    IIRC the correct opener for this is something like

    MF (2 tick) x2 to get a 5 stack of evang, Arch Angel, Shadow Fiend, Mind Blast, Mind Spike until Mind blast is about to be off CD, Then MF 2 ticks, then Mind Blast and repeat till Shadow Fiend is done. Once Shadow Fiend is done, you should have Empowered Shadows, and a 5 stack of evang, to go into a normal rotation.

    (I don't actually have 4pc shadow, so you might want to get confirmation on this, or test it yourself)

    Also; getting some Logs would be nice, it's pretty easy to do yourself via World of Logs, if your guild doesn't already have them

    Other big notes: You're about 40 points above hit cap, and ~100 points below a very important haste cap. i would work on those. possibly even dropping Lavawalker for more haste on your boots to pick it up.

    You should use a website like WoW Reforge to help with your reforging.


    Another thing i'm noticing is you avoided a lot of the spirit valor pieces? Why? Spirit -> Hit is 100%, you're losing out on TONS of haste by getting mastery off pieces with hit on them instead, this is probably why you're under 2589 haste.
    Last edited by hikamiro; 2012-02-27 at 11:26 PM.

  4. #4
    Field Marshal
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    50
    I don't see any major flaw in your "rotation". However improvements can always be made:

    Prepot 2 seconds to the pull, VT as it's the only one with cast time, SW: P on pull, MF till Shadow Orb Proc, MB, VT, DP, go into normal "rotation".

    This is of course without the 4pc t13 bonus. As you have got it, it would now come down to a Mind Spike driven rotation as described here. I chose Rotation #2.

    Armorywise try to achieve 2589 haste as it brings you above the VT+2 Haste Plateau. (This is of course without DI).

    If you are interested in a deeper analysis, feel free to post your Armory and a Worldoflogs Report in the Fix-My-DPS-Thread.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by ziki View Post
    Then i keep up my dot's up at-least 98% the time, every time [Mind Blast] is off cool-down i cast it, followed with a [Shadow Word: Death]
    I am sorry, but there is no way you are doing this and getting kicked out of a guild for too low DPS. I highly doubt that you are keeping your DoTs up and Mind Blast on cooldown. Feel free to post a log or post a video of you playing.

    And as for 40-45k on Madness. That is low, really low. I was doing 49k in Firelands gear (~371 item level) and you have 390 item level.

  6. #6
    Field Marshal
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    Jan 2012
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    Germany
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    50
    Managed to get my hands on one of your ultraxion hc logs.

    Dot Uptime is low, especially the 92% on vt hurt.

    Mind Flay Uptime should be more around 60%.

    Only 25 Mind Blasts casted in 5:09, thats around a Mind Blast every 12.3 seconds, this value should be more around 8-8.5 seconds.

    As for Madness: Multidot Arm and Tentacle to get more Spellweave procs.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by syslord2k2 View Post
    Managed to get my hands on one of your ultraxion hc logs.

    Dot Uptime is low, especially the 92% on vt hurt.

    Mind Flay Uptime should be more around 60%.

    Only 25 Mind Blasts casted in 5:09, thats around a Mind Blast every 12.3 seconds, this value should be more around 8-8.5 seconds.

    As for Madness: Multidot Arm and Tentacle to get more Spellweave procs.
    This, and your missing enchants on your rings, and like someone said above you are really close the the next haste threshold and should try to hit it,

  8. #8
    Some suggestions:

    - Dont reforge hit into spirit, shadowfiend uses melee hitchance unless they have hotfixed it without me knowing it (should be even the other way around seeing the importance of t13 4-set)

    - Set reforgelite calculationtime longer if it crashes. (you still need to input your own values if needed though)

    - you are 0.49% over hitcap

    - get a different trinket then rune of zeth, check shadowpriest.com for which alternatives

    - you have fourset, think someone posted a guide of it but it comes down to:

    Prepot->VT->flay till eva-> pop-> if orb-> mindspikex2, fiend, spike+blast, spike till enough sec left on mblast cd to fit 3 tick flay, mblast, spike again and weave flay, keep orb last for another mblast then apply dots. you can check last orb with addon pettimetolive, if it has like 1 sec left or so.

    if no orb, then just pop fiend then mblast after aa

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Cookiematico View Post
    shadowfiend uses melee hitchance unless they have hotfixed it without me knowing it
    I have a dream that one day people won't say this anymore... it's the cockroach of the misinformation world...

    (to clarify Fiend doesn't care if you get hit rating from spirit or hit).

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Arlee View Post
    I have a dream that one day people won't say this anymore... it's the cockroach of the misinformation world...

    (to clarify Fiend doesn't care if you get hit rating from spirit or hit).
    It's not like that information has been around for more than a year.

    Stream: twitch.tv/DryeLuLZ
    Twitter: @Dryelulz

  11. #11

    Unhappy

    First of all ... Thanks for all the replies and all the help so far, i've spend hours now into the reforge and tried optimize my stats best possible, and wanna know if there "still" is reforge issues ?

    http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/eu/tarren_mill/gz

    http://www.wowreforge.com/EU/Tarren%20Mill/Gz

    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...mill/Gz/simple




    I've made a quick video of my "play-style" and hope i can get some "advice" .... I'm still reading the answers in details and trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong ...


    http://youtu.be/Fsi2tXgQwcc

  12. #12
    Get 2589 Haste, for extra tick of VT. Etc change ur rune of zeth to BW (and reforge 40% of the stats to mastery) and make a macro that binds it to your archangel (which matches in CD)

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Arlee View Post
    I have a dream that one day people won't say this anymore... it's the cockroach of the misinformation world...

    (to clarify Fiend doesn't care if you get hit rating from spirit or hit).
    Interesting, had some other sp'ss that were progressing during spine hc before nerfs say that it used melee hit table and same with boomkins's tree elementals (my fiend was missing sometimes even with 17% spellhit during progress). Would love to know the source of that if possible as there is quite some confusion about it

  14. #14
    Field Marshal
    Join Date
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    Location
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    Quote Originally Posted by ziki View Post
    First of all ... Thanks for all the replies and all the help so far, i've spend hours now into the reforge and tried optimize my stats best possible, and wanna know if there "still" is reforge issues ?

    http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/eu/tarren_mill/gz

    http://www.wowreforge.com/EU/Tarren%20Mill/Gz

    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...mill/Gz/simple

    I've made a quick video of my "play-style" and hope i can get some "advice" .... I'm still reading the answers in details and trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong ...


    http://youtu.be/Fsi2tXgQwcc
    Video issues:

    - Still not using a Mind Spike rotation when Shadowfiend is up
    - Why do you track your buffs when you don't use them anyway:
    0:51: You recast VT but should have also recasted dp so it benefits from one more full duration of volcanic power
    1:16: Same with power torrent
    1:54: Same as 1:16

    - what's with all the moving when you should cast, only move when you a) cast Shadowfiend b) refresh DP c) double cast Shadow Word: Death and only for the duration of the gcd(s).

  15. #15
    The random movement is killing your dps, stop that.

    You're not refreshing dots when power torrent procs.

    Some of your Mind Blasts seem a little late, need to make sure you cast it on cooldown.

    Also, get bottled wishes. It will get you over the 2589 haste cap and can be used with shadow fiend. Then start practising the 4 set rotation.
    Last edited by Totemanic; 2012-02-28 at 11:18 AM.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Cookiematico View Post
    Interesting, had some other sp'ss that were progressing during spine hc before nerfs say that it used melee hit table and same with boomkins's tree elementals (my fiend was missing sometimes even with 17% spellhit during progress). Would love to know the source of that if possible as there is quite some confusion about it
    I went through it all in some thread somewhere awhile ago with links and what not, I might see if I can dig it up but it has been awhile... and so did Kilee... and think Twintop might have too. It boils down to people believing tooltips too much (for example Goblin racial is not just cast speed) and not understanding how melee hit mechanics actually work.

  17. #17
    Refresh VT and DP when you get a Intellect buffs etc, such as Power Torrent, your (awful) trinket that you're using and Potion. Then refresh them again just before the buff falls off, so that your DoTs are still benefiting from the Intellect boosts, even though you don't have them anymore.

    Stop moving around so much. Like someone else said, only move when you're using an instant cast, and even then, only move very briefly so that you're not delaying your next spell.

    Only use Shadow Word: Death when your target is below 25% health, or if you're running low on mana (around 20%) and Archangel/Shadowfiend still have a while on their cooldown or if you're saving them for something.

  18. #18
    In the video you start with VT, cast Mind Flay once, cast other spells and then refresh VT without 5 stacks of Dark Evangelism.
    You're also tracking buffs and dots multiple times. This isn't wrong per se, but it's redundant.

    Since you have 4pc T13 you should be looking at using a Mind Spike/Blast rotation when your Shadowfiend and Archangel are up. I'm pretty sure someone already give a link with more information.

    Edit: I see you're not using 4pc anymore, you should revert that change and make use of it, imo.
    Last edited by Xorz; 2012-02-28 at 01:29 PM.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by ziki View Post
    First of all ... Thanks for all the replies and all the help so far, i've spend hours now into the reforge and tried optimize my stats best possible, and wanna know if there "still" is reforge issues ?
    Dont bother too much with reforging. Just get to 2589 haste or over and forget reforging then, differences between different reforges are so minuscule its waste of time to spend too much effort on them. And they surely do not do enough difference to get you kicked from raid. Instead concentrate learning pressing right buttons at right time. Make sure you have good dot timers and TellMeWhen/Power Auras etc set up to show when mindblast, shadowfiend, swd and other important stuff so that you do not miss them midfight. Lot of fight you need to multidot to get best out of spriest, train it with dummys. And yes MF uptime seems bit low in ultrax log.

    Partly problem could be also missing buffs in your 10 men raid, ultrax log someone linked earlier hunter was failing to provide 8% spell damage debuff (http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...f-on-Ultraxion)

  20. #20
    Now that you mention it, sahtila, there is no record of the Fire Beath spell on Ultraxion. So that's ~8% less damage for him.
    The hunter needs to macro the Fire Breath spell to his other attacks to make sure his pet uses it.

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