Hardcore PvE raiding - advice please.

[Deleted]

First off, I'll say I don't know much info about the upcoming mmos, even the big ones.

Currently I run a top 30 world SWTOR hardcore raiding guild and have a really bad feeling that the next patch isn't going to deliver at all and we'll clear the content within a few weeks.

I'm looking for advice as to what game I could possibly migrate to in the next 12 months which will likely have a very good hardcore raiding scene? (i.e. an extremely challenging tier of content for hardcores, kinda like naxx 40)

I've heard GW2 offers some interesting new gameplay options, but doesn't cater to the hardcore raider?

Haven't played WoW since WOTLK as the content was getting too trivial. Has that changed? I would be surprised if it had.

Any other games on the horizon!?


Thanks!

[Ighox]

First off, I'll say I don't know much info about the upcoming mmos, even the big ones.

Currently I run a top 30 world SWTOR hardcore raiding guild and have a really bad feeling that the next patch isn't going to deliver at all and we'll clear the content within a few weeks.

I'm looking for advice as to what game I could possibly migrate to in the next 12 months which will likely have a very good hardcore raiding scene? (i.e. an extremely challenging tier of content for hardcores, kinda like naxx 40)

I've heard GW2 offers some interesting new gameplay options, but doesn't cater to the hardcore raider?

Haven't played WoW since WOTLK as the content was getting too trivial. Has that changed? I would be surprised if it had.

Any other games on the horizon!?


Thanks!

Rift probably has the best raiding out there right now.

At least about 5844 times better than SWTOR in terms of difficulty.

GW2 won't have raids, TERA won't have raids so I don't think there's that many options in "coming soon" MMO's.

[Edge-]

Not sure if it's still the same, but EQ2 might fit the bill. There is a TON of content to do, so you'll be busy for quite a while trying to catch up to the current tier.

[Fencers]

EQ2 is the most challenging raid content available. A step below that would be Rift and FF11. The next tier of Rift's 20 man raiding is in PTR testing currently. Rift 20 mans are quite challenging in the Burning Crusade model of raid design, but with the best class balance I have yet seen in a major MMO. I am not up to speed on FF11, bit that raid content is still very demanding.

GW2 is a casual style MMO with no instanced raiding or gear progression. Not suitable for a hardcore raiding guild.

If you want the highest prestige- EQ2. The most robust and current- Rift.

[Blackemperor]

TERA will have raids please stop spreading misinformation. Do your research, OP. Play as many betas as possible.

OP - What is it you're looking for? General challenge? Playing content with a bunch of people?
5 man content can offer you a lot of challenge in some games just like 10/25/X people it just depends on what you're looking for.

[Ighox]

TERA will have raids please stop spreading misinformation. Do your research, OP. Play as many betas as possible.

Oh right, forgot about the rifts in the next patch.
So yeah it will have one type of raid and it's outdoor, but no raid instances or competitive PvE that the OP is looking for.

[Yoshimiko]

FF11 forces you to be a bit on the obsessive side to be able to compete.(One of their bosses, the first kill was intended to be over 60 hours long, with over 30 people there. After 38 hours, people began to become physically ill and they did not have enough people to transfer in and out anymore.) That being said - if you are either retired, sick, or for some reason do not have a life outside of the game - FF11 demands the most out of it's players. Unfortunately with FF14 out, they are putting most of their resources into FF14 - which is still a pretty shit game.

EQ2 has content. and TONS of it. It was the biggest thing prior to wow for a reason - It's big, it's popular, it's just a bit outdated and expensive to start into. Another game that will drain your days of all of their time. I admittedly never played this, however I had some family who did. Massive game - a lot of hardcore content, very demanding on the cutting edge stuff. Not a bad choice if you can bypass the graphics.

WoW - everyone knows it, this site is based around it. It releases content about every 6-7 months, that any hardcore guild takes about 2 months to clear, rarely more. Coming to the end of the expansion - a new expansion around the corner, it'll never push out content fast enough - or difficult enough - to hold the hardcore community. It's a relatively casual game, easy to pick up - mediocre difficulty to master. I wouldn't suggest this for the hardcore raider.

I know nothing of Rift, and cannot comment on it.

Comparing these, to SWTOR - SWTOR is the most simplistic raiding that is out currently. Anything would probably be an upgrade over that. If you can get past the graphics, I'd highly recommend EQ2, or FF11. FF11 is the largest time sink of any mmo out currently, and probably the least demanding skill-wise. While it does have a high demand on time.

Best of luck finding your new drug of choice - Hope you enjoy yourself.

Edit: Oh, but if you think that Ulduar Hard modes were trivial when they were current, No mmo will sate your masochism. Many believe that Ulduar, as well as ICC had two of the most difficult fights to date(0 lights, and heroic LK25 0% buff). If you think these were easy mode, there really is no game difficult enough for you.

[Fencers]

Ulduar was rather tame compared to EQ2 stuff. Rift's Hammerknell is about equal in difficulty to Ulduar- I raided both as top 20 progression raider. Rift's raiding scene is excellent.

Honestly, OP, you want EQ2 or Rift. These are the games I raid in personally. I quit WoW after Uludar- it became a joke.

[Thrage]

Just chiming in to support the consensus in favor of Rift. EQ2 might be good too but I've never played it past like level 20.

Hell, isn't that game free now? Maybe I should.

[Fencers]

I would recommend EQ2 only if you absolutely have a dedicated raid team who are all on the same page.

That is to say, they are all willing to put in the time & effort and can deal with the older look and feel of EQ2. The game is pretty old at this point, to be perfectly honest. Furthermore, EQ as a series has always been about PVE first. There is PVP, but it is minor and secondary to the main thrust of PVE. Something to consider if you have raiders who like to dip their toes in PVP from time to time.

EQ2 is fantastic, and it is free of a subscription fee- the game is not user friendly as modern MMOs or "new player" friendly. If what you want is a serious, emphasis on serious over "fun", MMO then EQ2 will break the ego of how good you think you are at raiding. >:]

[Edge-]

Just chiming in to support the consensus in favor of Rift. EQ2 might be good too but I've never played it past like level 20.

Hell, isn't that game free now? Maybe I should.

It's worth giving a shot for a while on a free account, but if you want to do any kind of serious play you NEED to be subscribed to it. The limitations on a free account are fine for casual players (even though the game isn't even really tailored for them despite SoE's best efforts in recent years) are absolutely destructive to serious players.

[Tinuviel]

WoW is much harder than EQ2 in terms of raiding content, even now.
Rift set the bar very high with Hammerknell, as a contendent to the hardest PVE game which is obviously WoW.

[Vrdict]

WoW is much harder than EQ2 in terms of raiding content, even now.
Rift set the bar very high with Hammerknell, as a contendent to the hardest PVE game which is obviously WoW.

I'm assuming you have never raided on the highest level of any of these games and the fact you can even turn your PC on is quite the achievement for yourself.

I've raided at the highest tier on EQ, EQ2, WoW and RIFT.

Difficulty: (most difficult to least)
EQ
EQ2
WoW
RIFT

Post Aky nerf, RIFT raiding is a joke. Once your raid is on the same page on how to react to each phase it's really tiresome. Neither WoW nor RIFT comes even close to EQ or EQ2 in the difficulty of progressing through actual tiers.

Raiding Content Available:
EQ
EQ2
WoW
RIFT

EQ with 18 expansions has more raid content than you could ever imagine, EQ2 has more content in the raids, ie getting to the raid mobs, than WoW so edges it out.

Raiding Population:
WoW
RIFT
EQ2
EQ

This is just based on numbers of players, now if it were number of raiders per population the list would be flipped since I would guestimate over 90% of EQ players are raiders, not all hardcore but raiders nonetheless.


EQ would be a good choice if graphics matter very little to you, the learning curve is much higher and there is very little hand holding, no gathering up quests by moving from NPC to NPC with !'s above their head so be prepared to grind out levels by actually killing, but with the freedom of killing whatever you like based on speed, difficulty, location, loot tables etc. But the raiding is top notch, the content is overwhelming and you have a choice between F2P on normal servers, or subing to play on a progression server which is going back through old content, stopping at each expansion so players who missed raid content from years past can experience it anew.

[Deleted]

Vrdict when did you last play wow?

OT: Rift is probably your best bet, with a new expansion on the horizon it is looking good, and the best thing about rift is that the devs care for the game more than the money, plus there is considerably more frequent updates than wow in terms of raids.

[Fencers]

Major necro bump here.

EQ is def. the steepest of all raiding environments though. There is no doubt. I found SWTOR and WOW to be the easiest of all MMOs. Esp. SWTOR.

[Azuri]

Please do not necro old threads.