1. #1
    Blademaster Silph's Avatar
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    Ele - H Ultrax spec question

    First off I'm sorry if this was covered in a previous thread, and if so can you direct me to it.

    Last night our guild finally killed H-Ultrax 10 man. I changed my ele spec to 31/3/7 http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...lent/secondary I did this so my elementals can be up for 3 minutes since the instant g-wolf is not needed. My fire elemental isn't dropped until i have Volcanic potion, power torrent, and will of unbinding (10 stacks) are all active.

    My question is, is their a better spec for this fight? Is the gain of a whole minute with elementals out worth the loss of points in Improved Shields (weaker lightning orbs/fulmination)?

  2. #2
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    It's going to depend entirely on how long the fight actually lasts. The 31/3/7 spec is ideal at fights that last just over 2:40, and starts losing ground from there, since the traditional spec continues to perform better while the only feature of the 31/3/7 spec, the longer Fire Elemental Totem, is on cooldown and unusable.

    In the end, it's 7k DPS on the FET, over the 3200 or so Searing totem would provide, for 40 additional seconds. So about 160k damage. Minus whatever you would've gained from Improved Shields over the course of the fight. The balance point is where that Improved Shields damage overtakes the FET damage. On my last (H) Ultrax kill, I had almost a million damage from Fulmination, so I'd have gained about 150k from it, so a 31/3/7 spec would have been a near-invisible DPS gain for me.

    I don't bother because it's A> invisibly small and B> I'm a swing healer for my raid, so I run ele/resto and don't want to hearth out to respec just for that tiny gain.

    My numbers aren't universal though. I'm providing that as an example of how to figure it out, not as a statement on whether or not it's worth it. If our fight was shorter (it was 5:50), 31/3/7 would pull further ahead.

  3. #3
    It is not particularly hard to calculate it based on your own numbers. Though even assuming a 6min kill time it would be very very unlikely for the "standard" spec to be better (you would have to be doing some retardedly good dps).

    p.s. 120*1.4=168.
    Last edited by Jinto; 2012-02-28 at 05:10 PM.

  4. #4
    You also can take into account that on any fight longer than 7 minutes, you gain extra GCDs because ST also lasts 24 seconds longer.

    So 3x ST + 1x FE with TF spec = 420 seconds = 7 min and +2 GCD because without TF spec you would place 1x FE and 5x ST.

    I really think, you should consider those 2 GCDs!

  5. #5
    The Patient MeleX's Avatar
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    Btw you dont need Glyph of Unleashed Lightning for that fight, not sure if u used it. I swap for LvB glyph in that fight.

    good luck.

  6. #6
    Dreadlord Paf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MeleX View Post
    Btw you dont need Glyph of Unleashed Lightning for that fight, not sure if u used it. I swap for LvB glyph in that fight.

    good luck.
    Since we went this direction, I'd like to make a correction.

    Glyph of Lightning Bolt does not buff Lightning Bolt Overload procs.
    Glyph of Lava Burst buffs Lava Burst Overload procs.

    Thus, in most cases, Lava Burst is the superior glyph under most circumstances and Lightning Bolt should be swapped out for Unleashed Lightning.
    mhm? mhm.

  7. #7
    The Patient MeleX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paf View Post
    Since we went this direction, I'd like to make a correction.

    Glyph of Lightning Bolt does not buff Lightning Bolt Overload procs.
    Glyph of Lava Burst buffs Lava Burst Overload procs.

    Thus, in most cases, Lava Burst is the superior glyph under most circumstances and Lightning Bolt should be swapped out for Unleashed Lightning.
    That is great to know, ty for that.

  8. #8
    I use the same spec (31/3/7) as it gives you more damage that is not realiant on how well YOU play.

    You can loan my computer and try doing optimal rotation on Ultraxion 25H with less than 10fps for over half the fight Goes below 5 during the last minute or so.
    Luckily I'm getting a new computer soon'ish, though :P

    Also Endus, only 7k from FE? Mine did almost 8,3k DPS for the time it was up on our last Ultra HC kill, so the gain is a bit bigger than that 160k. Mine did around 300k more than our other Ele Shamans FE, though he has less gear and was using the standard spec.

  9. #9
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drunkenfinn View Post
    Also Endus, only 7k from FE? Mine did almost 8,3k DPS for the time it was up on our last Ultra HC kill, so the gain is a bit bigger than that 160k. Mine did around 300k more than our other Ele Shamans FE, though he has less gear and was using the standard spec.
    It depends how much you Intellect you can stack on it; I used a conservative reliable number rather than a pie-in-the-sky max possible number. If you stack no Intellect, it's something around 6k, 7k usually is what you'll get if you manage to stack it with pot, if you're getting Synapse Springs and Power Torrent and a Lightweave proc, it can be much higher, but the only one of those three you can control and thus guarantee is Synapse Springs.

  10. #10
    Mechagnome Avalya's Avatar
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    Seeing as how most of that (except for Lightweave, because it has a rather low proc chance) will be up at the start of the fight - it would be optimal to pop the elemental right off the bat when those are up (waiting for WoU stacks isn't necessary however, as it's not that big compared to one of your other buffs to fall off), which means it would do quite high damage (I'm a tailor, so I get it all except for the Synapse Springs).

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Avalya View Post
    Seeing as how most of that (except for Lightweave, because it has a rather low proc chance) will be up at the start of the fight - it would be optimal to pop the elemental right off the bat when those are up (waiting for WoU stacks isn't necessary however, as it's not that big compared to one of your other buffs to fall off), which means it would do quite high damage (I'm a tailor, so I get it all except for the Synapse Springs).
    I can generally get 7-10 stacks of WoU before Power Torrent+Orc Racial+Volcano Pot run out though. The 880 int is nothing to sneeze at.

    Wish I had Engineering and Tailoring though... I'd prolly be able to push the FE past 9k DPS with those in an optimal situation!

  12. #12
    Pandaren Monk Mnevis's Avatar
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    Yes, a Totemic Focus build is clearly better for Ultraxion. For me, Simulationcraft predicts it as a 500 dps increase.

    In practice, here are two logs. The first is the last time I did H-Ultraxion with my normal (ancestral swiftnesss) spec, and the second is with TF build, the next week, no upgrades in between.
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=6793&e=7077 40k
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=2032&e=2320 43k

    Part (maybe most) of the variation is the fact that I forgot to run my own log the first week, part is tricks the seconds week, part is probably just RNG, but you can see that the extra over 500k totem damage easily surpasses the lost 130k Fulmination damage. Both of those kills are a little under 4:50 in length; Endus is right about TF build being time dependent, but my simulationcraft 500 dps increase result was with settings of a 300sec fight with 0 variation.

    Also, seconding LvB glyph as priority over Lightning Bolt glyph. I use both for this fight though. And Xentres, on a 7min fight (like H-Yorsajh), you should use glyph of Fire Elemental!

  13. #13
    Blademaster Silph's Avatar
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    For that fight, being progression and our 1st time killing him, i swapped unleashed lighting for the fire ele glyph just to have him up every attempt. Once he's put on farm i'll be swapping that out. I didn't know that part about glyph of LB not working on mastery procs, so i'll try swapping that out for LvB glyph.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Mnevis View Post
    Also, seconding LvB glyph as priority over Lightning Bolt glyph. I use both for this fight though. And Xentres, on a 7min fight (like H-Yorsajh), you should use glyph of Fire Elemental!
    Yeah, thanks for the info. I usually forget about this option. If my 25man raid is not cancelled again for the third week in a row and if we are trying H-Yor, I will consider this and replace my GoLvB with GoFE.

  15. #15
    Dont wanna start a new thread and sorry this is a little off topic but can anyone post their Heroic Will + Unleashed Elements macro? Another off topic question, when going back into the twilight phase with the UE buff is it better to refresh FS (regardless of duration) or LvB?

  16. #16
    Unless I'm mistaken, if you Unleash just before pressing Heroic will you can do LvB->FS as you come back to the Twilight Realm and get the UE buff for BOTH spells, not just one.

    But yeah, I wouldnt waste a GCD for FS unless it had less than 10 seconds left, even with the UE buff.

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