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  1. #1
    The Lightbringer Malthurius's Avatar
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    [PvP] Build and Counter

    Skill Tool
    Click on the English flag in the top right of the tool for English.

    UPDATE - Traits and the Mesmer Profession has been added to the Skill Tool. Some skills/traits are still missing however and all of it is still subject to change.

    Let us speculate, theory craft, and try to understand how a PvP build will be made and used. Here is the basic idea:

    Create a build with the skill tool and link it in your post (for clarification). Explain how you would use the build in pvp. Define what combos you would use and how you would link your two weapon choices together to get the most effective control/damage/support against/for the opposing team/teammates.

    In addition you are encouraged to suggest combos and criticize builds. Come up with counters to people's combos. How would you counter a Thief doing this combo with this combo with your own build.

    [Disclaimer] : Of course all of this is subject to change, and more skills will be added eventually, but understanding how combos/builds work will make you a more knowledgeable player when the game finally launches.

    I'll start first with my
    Sword/Dagger Short-bow Thief build.

    I designed this build to be heavy control and quick damage. Sword provides mobility and a cripple in the main hand while the dagger gives a ranged cripple and a way to escape from melee. The dual skill, Flanking Strike, can quickly get you behind the enemy to avoid damage so you can escape or continue a melee onslaught.
    The short bow can provide extra range and AoE that the Sword/Dagger cannot provide, not to mention a blink like move with infiltrator's arrow.
    The short bow can be used to apply damage while retreating, or to close space for some Sword/Dagger action.

    I chose signet of Malice because I plan to avoid damage as much as possible. Any damage that I take should be able to be healed by my passive health on hit utility. If things get rough, simply casting the signet will provide an instant heal; most likely not as large as other heal utilities because of it's passive.

    Assassin's Signet gives you might, but on use immobilizes nearby foes. Perfect for escape or keeping the pressure off you and your allies.
    Scorpion Wire; because sometimes you need to peel. Controlling an enemy's position is more valuable in my mind than going to where the enemy is. I'll be using this whenever my other gap closers aren't available, or if I have a target I wish to destroy.
    Roll for initiative is great for escape, but not only that, it supports following up with more attacks. It can be used with any weapon ability for escape or offense, I think it's pretty great.

    I chose Dagger Storm for the elite. I have enough escape routes that I don't need another stealth outside of my dagger off-hand. I can imagine the extra pressure from Dagger Storm getting me kills, many kills.


    Combos:
    Dancing Dagger > Scorpion Wire > Flanking Strike > Rending Slash x? > Roll for Initiative/Cloak and Dagger
    Cripple with Dancing Dagger to hinder their escape, pull them in with scorpion wire and get behind them with Flanking strike. You could probably spam 1 a bit before Roll for Initiative or Cloak and Dagger to quickly get range again. I can then follow up by escaping, switching to shortbow for ranged dps, or returning back to melee with shortbow's infiltrator's arrow after a few seconds so you can switch back to Sword/Dagger.

    Infiltrator's Arrow > Weapon Switch > Flanking Strike > Rending Slash x? > Dancing Blade/Roll for Initiative

    Infiltrator's Arrow is used to close distance and blind, at which point you would switch to Sword/Dagger. Flanking Strike to get behind them and the spam Rending Slash a couple of times because using Dancing blade or Roll for Initiative to get distance again.

    ------------------------------------------------------------


    Okay, I can come up with more, but I'll stop there for now. Come up with your own build, explain it's usage, come up with some ways to use your build in combos, and try to find flaw/weakness in other builds.

    If someone finds a flaw/weakness in your build, try remaking the build to fix or address the flaw, then see if they can find the flaw/weakness in that. You don't have to make any combos if you don't want, the minimum is what your build is trying to accomplish and how it is used.

    EDIT - I realized that I didn't even consider elevation and choke points. You might want to keep that in mind if you're ranged heavy.

    EDIT 2 - Forgot about dodging as well, as Creepjack pointed out. Adding a back-up plan to someone dodging from your combo would be a good idea. Remember that if you're crippled or anything along those lines you cannot dodge. For example my first combo wouldn't be at risk of the enemy dodging away because dancing dagger cripples and prevents dodging. My second combo has the threat of the enemy dodging until I hit with Rending Slash, which also applies cripple.

    EDIT 3 - If you're not sure what a passive utility skill does when activated or what a condition does feel free to use the wiki. If you find that something doesn't add up in a build you're trying to counter, feel free to correct them and provide a source.

    EDIT 4 - It's cool that you guys have some foresight for what could counter your own build, but I intended for other posters to find the flaws in other people's builds. That shows problem solving skill, and will probably be a bit more beneficial than breaking a build you understand for the most part.
    Last edited by Malthurius; 2012-02-29 at 10:16 PM.
    "Questions are for those seeking answers. Those who have answers are those who have asked questions." -Mike R. (Malthurius)

  2. #2
    First, props for creating a PVP topic.

    As I am currently at work, can't contribute here fully at this moment, just wanted to point how important dodge is. So it's not only important to have prepared x->y->z combos, but also counter measures if the enemy decides to dodge y at thus breaking the chain. Anyway, will write more in the evening. Hope this still be on the front page ;s.

  3. #3
    The Lightbringer Malthurius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Creepjack View Post
    First, props for creating a PVP topic.

    As I am currently at work, can't contribute here fully at this moment, just wanted to point how important dodge is. So it's not only important to have prepared x->y->z combos, but also counter measures if the enemy decides to dodge y at thus breaking the chain. Anyway, will write more in the evening. Hope this still be on the front page ;s.
    Dodge is the universal counter (Or weakness/flaw as I put it). I didn't consider it because everyone can do it (about 3 times in it's current form in a row.) So I'd imagine in a one on one battle they would only be able to break your combo 4 or 5 times before it's over by dodging.

    In fighting game terms, Dodge can be considered a 'cancel' or a 'null'. Being used to feign an offensive approach or to stop an enemy's combo respectively.

    ---------- Post added 2012-02-06 at 01:31 AM ----------

    No one wants to pitch in? Hm... then I guess I'll give another example and break my own build.

    Sword/Shield TwoHanded Sword Guardian Build

    This build is made to keep conditions off, prevent ranged damage, and to be mobile. The Sword main hand provides a blink with Flashing Blade and a ranged burst attack that doubles as a defense against ranged attacks while it's being used with Zealot's Defense. The shield off hand provides a weaker version of the sword's Zealot's Defense with Shield of Judgement, and a knockback to get space between enemies and block in coming ranged attacks with Shield of Absorption. The build tends to be anti support, and is a rather selfish build for a Guardian. It's a build that's more about self survival and keeping in range to deal damage to your enemies.
    The TwoHanded Sword provides AoE damage and extra control that the Sword/Shield cannot provide.
    The Twohanded sword can be used to gain ground, or prevent enemy escape, keeping the enemy close with Binding Blade, Faithful Strike, and Symbol of Swiftness, and the Sword and Shield can be used to help prevent damage and dish it out if your target decides to switch to the offensive.

    I chose Signet of Resolve to remove conditions every 10 seconds (Things like Cripple that prevent dodging, bleeding, blind, ect.) It's active heals the player for an amount most likely less of the other options. Because of the defensive nature of Sword/Shield and Virtue of Resolve, it shouldn't be an issue.

    Judge's Intervention to keep close to your enemies. On an added bonus it burns enemies and heals allies.
    Hammer of Wisdom for extra damage, and a pinch knockdown to break combos or make enemies vulnerable.
    Contemplation of Purity to get conditions off and to turn the tables.

    And the Elite is Sanctuary because there is no other choice at the moment. However it's a fantastic defensive CD and can be used in times of panic for you and your teammates.

    Combos:
    Judge's Intervention > Shield of Absorption > Zealot's Defense > Weapon Switch > Faithful Strike > Strike x?
    Enter with Judge's Intervention to Close the gap, causing burn and healing allies. Follow with Shield of Absorption to knock the enemy back and follow with Zealot's Defense to unload while the enemy is down. Switch to Twohanded Sword to use faithful strike and close the gap once more at which point you would spam 1. If the enemy dodges away, use Flashing Blade to close the gap again and start again where the combo was broken, or try something else.

    Hammer of Wisdom > Command > Zealot's Defense > Flashing Blade > Shield of Absorption > Shield of Judgement > Judge's Intervention > Sword of Wrath x?
    This one is a bit long, but get this: Summon Hammer of Wisdom preemptively to command the hammer to knock down. Then use Zealot's Defense to lay on some damage while they're down. Flashing Blade behind the target (or any position that is advantageous), and then use Shield of Absorption to knock them back again. Follow with Shield of Judgement for some more damage, and then Judge's Intervention to the enemy to use your 1 skill as much as possible. The enemy should be knocked down the entire combo if I understand properly, no chance to escape until the end.

    Counter to Malthurius' Sword/Dagger Short-bow Build:
    The constant condition removal from Signet of Resolve will almost always remove cripple, because cripple is the only condition that the build provides to enemies (aside from a 90 second CD immobilize.), making it vulnerable to that, and allows dodging to easily break all attempted combos.

    Shield of Absorption will prevent Dancing Dagger from applying Cripple in the first place, and the blind effect from Flashing Blade will make it difficult to retaliate.

    Binding Blade, Faithful Strike, and Judge's Intervention will prevent the non-stealth heavy build from escaping easily from a losing battle.
    Last edited by Malthurius; 2012-02-06 at 01:38 AM.
    "Questions are for those seeking answers. Those who have answers are those who have asked questions." -Mike R. (Malthurius)

  4. #4
    Dagger/Dagger Dagger/Pistol Thief Build

    This build is meant to keep damage on your opponent at all times while still having the tools you need to escape when needed. The build needs you to move around a lot while going in and out of stealth.

    The dagger/dagger build is for keeping damage and bleeds on your enemy while having the ability dancing dagger at your enemy if they try to run away, or cloak and dagger if you need to get away.

    If someone is able to kite you this build has several options. The first being shadow step, if someone gets far enough away you can simply use this ability to teleport right next to them and start dishing out damage again. The second is scorpion wire which allows you to just pull an enemy straight to you. Finally you can switch to pistol/dagger which gives you the ability to daze your foe and an ability which blinds your enemy and teleports you to their location.

    Combos:
    Cloak & Dagger / Retreating Shot > Dodge > Shadow Refuge > Apply Poison > Invisible Stalker > Shadow step? > Leaping Death Blossom
    Use your cloak and dagger if you are up close to go into stealth and run away or retreating shot to get away from your enemy if you are having troubles with their defense or damage. Next dodge so you are not in the same area you shot back, right after you use shadow refuge so you go into stealth and start healing (remember shadow refuge breaks if you start to move again). Next use apply poison so you can do increased amount of damage to your enemy. Finally use invisible stalker so you are still in stealth and your enemy will not be able to see you coming. Right after you use invisible stalker you want to get to your enemy as fast as possible because you stay in stealth when you attack with that ability; so next you will use shadow step if your enemy is not kiting you. Finally use leaping death blossom to apply bleeding a long with your poison to dish out as much damage as possible.

    Counter to Malthurius' Sword/Shield TwoHanded Sword Guardian Build:
    When shield of absorb is used I will be able to retreat back into stealth and make my way back to the guardian or just shadow step. The problem with fighting this build is that the guardian can remove conditions from themself so my attacks have to come from hits rather than bleeds and poison, I will have to use cloak and dagger as often as I can to get away and use cloak and dagger as often as possible to keep the guardian from hitting me.

    Not sure how well I did on this build lol. I had fun making it though, this is the build I planned on using anyway.
    Last edited by worprz; 2012-02-06 at 04:30 AM.

  5. #5
    The Lightbringer Malthurius's Avatar
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    I won't make another build or counter for a while so it doesn't end up being nothing but me trying to counter other people's builds. You can come up with counters to any posted build, it doesn't have to be the latest one. It might be a good idea to explore possible actions against as many classes and builds as possible with your build, however that would end up being more typing than I've already asked for.

    I would encourage trying to make builds for classes you 'might' try. Understanding other classes will help you to assist teammates and fight against enemies in the long run. Even if the abilities change, the basic concept around the classes and weapons most likely won't change much from their current form.
    Last edited by Malthurius; 2012-02-06 at 04:42 AM.
    "Questions are for those seeking answers. Those who have answers are those who have asked questions." -Mike R. (Malthurius)

  6. #6
    The Lightbringer Durzlla's Avatar
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    http://gw2.luna-atra.fr/skills_tool/...itch=2f44b1d31, Shortbow/ Sword Warhorn Ranger.

    This build in conjunction with either a supporty or condition heavy pet, is meant to use the superior mobility of the shortbow and sword to avoid most damage and over time leave the enemy battered and worthless. With abilities like Entangle, and crippling shot i'll be able to have ever more moveability then my enemy and leave them unable to dodge their way out of my combos. In addition to this i can ruin their day with a well thrown dust trap (might swap it to muddy terrain depends on the range of each trap and duration of their conditions) to throw them off.

    The Elite skill is there to not only support my allies, but also to make me and my pet a lot harder to not only down me, but to kill me too. Healing Spring is there to set up a defensive location, and will be especially useful against melee ranged enemies because i can stay inside of the area longer gaining full benefit from the heal.

    Forage was added to add a little bit of luck and chaos to the mix, it helps me stay unpredictable and can give me the edge of surprise on the enemy.

    COMBOS

    Crip shot > Quick Shot = Retreat, if they dodge the crip shot it leaves me able to land the quick shot which will give me the movement speed boost so i can run off behind a LoS object and possibly even gank them. And if they take the crip shot, then they wont be able to dodge the quick shot and there will be no hope for them to catch me without blowing a condition removal.

    Entangle > dodge behind > Cuncusion shot > Cross fire x<insert as many times as possible>= a stun and a way i can very easily stack up the bleeds, i can also then retreat from there if they're still rooted, and if not i can swap to sword and warhorn and head in.

    Slash + kick> Pounce/ hunters call> Serpent strike = a very versatile combo that'll give me several options, i'll either be able to kick them away from me, giving me room and plenty of time to send in the birds, or i can then close the gap as quickly as i opened it finishing my #1 skill combo. In addition i can also serpent strike at the end of the combo to twist around them, avoiding what ever they were going to do and poisoning them.

    Counters Likely counters for this build would be anything that can hinder my movement with freezes or cripples making me unable to move around the battle field as well as i'd like. However, they'd have to be able to do this fairly often (IE having more then 1 movement impare) otherwise i could easily counter it with Healing Spring.


    EDITL There is no way those are ALL the combos i can do, i can see sooooooooooooo many posibilities especially with the short swords skills, however i just put some basic ones i noticed right off the bat that'd probably be used more to throw off my enemies momentum.
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  7. #7
    Oh, I'm going to have LOTS of fun with this thread.

    Mace/Mace Long Bow Skill Build

    Giving a true meaning to rush down. This build will allow you to get into the face of your foes, and stay there until someone, presumably them, dies. With it's assortment of skills you'll be both extremely mobile, while have a large arsenal of skills to slow down, immobilize, or stun the enemy.

    First, the weapon choice. This build is mainly focused on Mace/Mace, but in a pinch, the Long Bow will let you deal with enemies out of running distance, or if really needed, offer some decent kiting options with the skill set. The skills of the MH Mace are all perfect, a basic combo which leaves them vulnerable, and more damage is always good, a counter for thieves or other melee trying to go toe-to-toe with you, and a fast quick daze through Pummel. The OH Mace skills are alright, I didn't like the change they made to the first skill, but it still works. The first skill will immediately make them vulnerable, so you can blow people up off the bat, while the second is the much more interesting one: a ranged tremor attack, which allows you to cripple foes not within melee range, a perfect skill for this build.

    Now for the selectable skills. Healing skill is obvious, healing and remove a condition, such as a slow or immobilize. Bolas of course, which offer more ranged snaring. Endure no Pain goes without saying, they most likely will change it in the future, but immunity to all damage speaks for itself, as well as breaking stuns. Bulls Charge, which some people overlook, does from the looks of it, a pretty big amount of damage, and a gap closer, how can you say no? Rampage is the best choice for the elite, since lugging around a banner wastes precious time, and AoE attacks aren't going to be too useful in PvP.

    Combos

    Bulls Rush > Tremor > Crushing Blow > Mace Combo > Pommel Bash > Throw Bolas > Mace Combo > Skull Crack

    Close the gap, tremor up close ensures they'll be hit by it, crushing blow for the oncoming burst, mace combo for the burst, pommel bash assuming they're running, bolas if they use an escape skill, mace combo for more damage, and skull crack assuming high adrenaline levels. If an escaping skill is used immediately after bull rush, bolas can be used to ensure they don't get far. During this, if rampage is up, use it!


    (Assuming max Adrenaline) Skull Crack > Crushing Blow > Mace Combo X2 > Tremor > Mace Combo

    A quick high damaging combo, if someone's unlucky enough to engage you with full adrenaline. Stun right off the bat, apply vulnerability, and use the mace combo a couple until the stun wears off, at which point you'll want to tremor, and continue the damage. The best part of this combo, is both bull rush and bolas are available if they try to escape early.


    Counters

    The two biggest counters, I assume there will be, will be defensive guardians and mesmers. The guardians can stay toe-to-toe with their high armor, and shake off conditions faster than you can apply them if built right. Combine with their pretty high burst and you may be sent running fast.

    Not much is known about mesmers, but if they plan like in GW1, the tricky bastards will be keeping you away with ease, and keeping confusion high, which brings your burst to an end. Catching them with Skull Crack could turn the tides however, if in that time confusion falls off, leaving them in a bad position.

  8. #8
    Hammer Sword/sword build

    Focusing on being up close and personal, while having the enemy spend as much time incapacitated as possible. Directed more for team play than solo, aimed at not giving the ranged I'm focusing a chance to run from me.
    For weapons I went with a hammer and dual swords. With dual swords, if the target DOES manage to get away, my mainhanded sword gives me a backup charge with Savage Leap and my offhand sword provides me with a ranged bleed for the second or two that I can't use anything to get closer. Grabbed.. well, now that I'm looking, I happened to grab the same selectable skills as the last poster for pretty much the same reasons, so I won't go into that.

    Combos

    If they see me coming, open with Bull's Charge. If they do not, run into melee range. I don't want to open with a charge if I can get the jump on them, will just make it on CD when I need it to chase. Anyways, assuming they don't see me coming and I can run into melee range instead of charging:

    Fierce Blow > Backbreaker > Hammer Shock > (swap) > Sever Artery > Gash > Final Thrust > Hamstring > Impale

    They should spend most of the time crippled, so hopefully running won't be an option. However, if they do manage to get away from me or remove a slow:

    Throw Bolas > Bull's Charge

    Any time an enemy is out of my range, and Bull's Charge is on CD, Savage Leap to close the distance.
    Will be using Flurry if they are in range at the second I get max Adrenaline, Earthshaker if there is more than one enemy, they are melee on me (A stun would be more beneficial than an immobilize on someone who just wants to hit me in the face anyways >.>). Also, rampage.. ehh.. I feel like it would be best to use after I go through my first rotation, or right after using an Earthshaker. I would probably still have something on CD which would disrupt my rotaton, and since Rampage replaces the skills on your bar, it would be a nice filler for that situation.

    Counters

    Honestly, pretty much everything that doesn't feel the need to run from me will be a solid counter. Since I'm prioritizing me being able to catch and lock down my fleeing enemy as oppose to me surviving and dealing high damage, someone who is prioritizing damage/defense over mobility will likely be a pain. Oh, and if Mesmers still have empathy I'll likely hate being anywhere near them.

  9. #9
    The Lightbringer Malthurius's Avatar
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    It's cool that you guys have some foresight for what could counter your own build, but I intended for other posters to find the flaws in other people's builds. That shows problem solving skill, and will probably be a bit more beneficial than breaking a build you understand for the most part.
    "Questions are for those seeking answers. Those who have answers are those who have asked questions." -Mike R. (Malthurius)

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthurius View Post
    It's cool that you guys have some foresight for what could counter your own build, but I intended for other posters to find the flaws in other people's builds. That shows problem solving skill, and will probably be a bit more beneficial than breaking a build you understand for the most part.
    That's what happens when I skim threads! :P

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Delias View Post
    <SNIP>
    Okey ,as you said. Mesmer with their clones will totally destroy you with all chaos storms, clones, stealth and portals.
    But how about a thief using his skills in a coordinated way?
    He'll go something like this http://gw2.luna-atra.fr/skills_tool/...itch=2f339b136
    He'll counter you with slows, stealthes, fast movement like shadow stepping all over you. Even if he's crippled he got a lot of movement to get away / into you and stealth away.

    If you get close to him and choose to "Endure pain" then use your combo to get him stuck he could either; Shrappnell mine --> Cloak and dagger --> if you get to him again he'll use Blinding Power to slip away once again.
    He got a lot of tools to get away from your crippling build.

    And a elementalist?
    http://gw2.luna-atra.fr/skills_tool/...itch=2f339b136
    He'll easily counter your cripple build once again.
    He could start of with a Frozen ground to freeze you then follow up with Mist form or Lightning Flash to get away, if he wants to keep on fighting you he'll easily go earth and Shockweave --> Unsteady ground --> Fire --> burning retreat --> burst. He got a lot of good skills as Lightning to slow, static shock you etc.

    I'll update the list later. Got to go to school :P Will try to counter everyone else as much as possible as well!

  12. #12
    I really need to know more skills before doing this very seriously, but here is my warrior atm:

    Hammer/DW Axe

    It will play out like something in the line of: (Bull's Charge) --> Staggering Blow (KD) --> Fierce Blow (Weakness) --> Hammer Shock (Crippling) --> Backbreaker (KD) --> Weapon Switch --> Throw Axe (vulnerability) --> Signet of Might (Double dmg on next attack) --> Dual Strike (The dmg x2) --> Whirling Axe (Spinning around)

    Now I'm not using the adrenaline skill. I could use Signet of Might + Eviscerate or swap back to Hammer and use Earthshaker plus KD's again.
    DW Axe might change if the damage is meh, then I'll probably use sword/shield or mace/shield.

    This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostrider View Post
    I really need to know more skills before doing this very seriously, but here is my warrior atm:
    This and also GW2 will be a lot of teamwork, you'll have some going offensive and someone going defensive and they'll back eachother up so countering one player will be easy but if he's paired up with a guy that has maxed his weakness they'll be a killing combo

  14. #14
    The Lightbringer Malthurius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roflatorlunde View Post
    This and also GW2 will be a lot of teamwork, you'll have some going offensive and someone going defensive and they'll back eachother up so countering one player will be easy but if he's paired up with a guy that has maxed his weakness they'll be a killing combo
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostrider View Post
    I really need to know more skills before doing this very seriously, but here is my warrior atm:
    Of course I don't expect everything made here to be used in every situation when the game launches. And of course a lot of things aren't known about skills. And oh god, Traits are a different beast all together.

    This is more of an exercise of knowledge (Perhaps research?). What does exist in the game can change, but it will most likely stay fundamentally the same. Like I said in the first post, knowing how the basics work will make you more knowledgeable in the long run.

    I think for now it's for the better that we don't concern ourselves with building for 5v5, 2v1, 3v2, ect. groups, cross profession combos and traits.

    EDIT - Now that I think about it, pointing out weaknesses helps to find a build to support it. Like Roflatorlunde pointed out.
    Last edited by Malthurius; 2012-02-06 at 09:00 AM.
    "Questions are for those seeking answers. Those who have answers are those who have asked questions." -Mike R. (Malthurius)

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by roflatorlunde View Post
    Okey ,as you said. Mesmer with their clones will totally destroy you with all chaos storms, clones, stealth and portals.
    But how about a thief using his skills in a coordinated way?
    He'll go something like this http://gw2.luna-atra.fr/skills_tool/...itch=2f339b136
    He'll counter you with slows, stealthes, fast movement like shadow stepping all over you. Even if he's crippled he got a lot of movement to get away / into you and stealth away.

    If you get close to him and choose to "Endure pain" then use your combo to get him stuck he could either; Shrappnell mine --> Cloak and dagger --> if you get to him again he'll use Blinding Power to slip away once again.
    He got a lot of tools to get away from your crippling build.

    And a elementalist?
    http://gw2.luna-atra.fr/skills_tool/...itch=2f339b136
    He'll easily counter your cripple build once again.
    He could start of with a Frozen ground to freeze you then follow up with Mist form or Lightning Flash to get away, if he wants to keep on fighting you he'll easily go earth and Shockweave --> Unsteady ground --> Fire --> burning retreat --> burst. He got a lot of good skills as Lightning to slow, static shock you etc.

    I'll update the list later. Got to go to school :P Will try to counter everyone else as much as possible as well!
    Firstly, both of the links you linked were to my build. :P
    Secondly, countering my cripple/charge spam/knockdown build with skills made to get away from me seems extremely counter productive. My build it meant to counter THAT. I have as many charges/slows/knockdowns as a warrior can get, if I could still be so easily kited warriors would be underpowered (Which I'm sure Arenanet does not want)

    The people who put all of their effort into getting away from me are the ones I WANT to be fighting. It's a lockdown build, if they're using all of their energy running away and doing nothing else, the build is a success.

    If anything, the counter to my build will be the builds that DON'T run away, and stand their ground to fight me off.

  16. #16
    Hi,

    Cudos for starting a build discussion, but there really isn't much to discuss atm. Everything is just listing skills in some sort of order. The defining pivot in any character 'build' is your trait build. Then which weapon-set/skill-set you bring (which you can swap out of combat). I didn't mean this to bash anyone here at all, just a slight tip that traits = your build.

  17. #17
    The Lightbringer Malthurius's Avatar
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    I'll go again. This time I'll step from my comfort zone which is Melee/Direct into a condition and boon support build.

    Scepter/WarHorn Axe/Dagger Necromancer Build

    This build is made to apply conditions and make the other player's life a living hell while supporting allies with condition removal and boons.
    Scepter in the main hand can poison, bleed, and cripple enemies as well as remove boons and deal extra damage for each boon on the target. Warhorn off hand allows for some mobility with Locust Swarm, as well as a health vamp.
    Axe in the main hand gives a way to be deadly in melee as well has another way to apply bleed and an AoE cripple. As an added bonus, Unholy feast does more damage for each condition on the target. Dagger in the off hand gives an AoE Blind, Weakness, and poison with enfeebling blood, and mark of blood gives another way of applying AoE bleeding as well as granting a boon of regeneration to allies who step inside.
    With this weapon combo I have 5 conditions, 1 boon to grant to allies, and 2 to myself.

    I chose consume conditions because the build is built around keeping as many conditions on the target as possible, and I'd assume a large health return with the amount of conditions thrown around.

    Well of Power Helps support allies and counters Nercomancers of the same build, or other condition heavy class builds.
    Corrupt Boon to counter heavy support build that focus on adding boons to their allies.
    Blood is Power to help stack Bleeding higher and mitigate damage through healing.

    I chose Plague for an elite because you become a giant AoE cloud of random conditions that you can easily capitalize on after the elite ends.

    Combos:
    Grasping Dead > Curse x? > Wail of Doom > Weapon Swap > Blood is Power > Unholy Feast > Ghastly Claws > Rending Claws x?
    At range use Grasping Dead to cause one stack of bleeding and prevent escape and dodging. Curse him a couple of times on the way to him to stack poison and use Wail of Doom to Daze, weaken, and add yet another stack of poison right before entering melee range. Switch to Axe/Dagger and use Blood is Power to stack bleeding to 3 stacks. The use Unholy feast to capitalize on the conditions to deal some straight damage followed by Ghastly Claws for some extra and to put it on cooldown while you're in melee. Then spam 1. They shouldn't be able to escape the majority of the combo because of Cripple from Grasping Dead.

    Counter to worprz's Dagger/Dagger Dagger/Pistol Build:
    Unless you can find a way to remove Bleed and Poison conditions, you'll be hurting quite a bit while in stealth. Damage doesn't break stealth but if you're crippled and all around miserable with disabling conditions I can still swing at the air and hit you.

    Using the condition poison or any of the many conditions in a Main Hand Dagger for Thieves against my build here will only benefit me if I use Well of Power to turn them into boons for my allies, since one of your main combos was Poison with Leaping Death Blossom to apply AoE poison, that can be quite the hindrance.

    ---------------------------------------------


    Quote Originally Posted by Hellgaunt View Post
    Hi,

    Cudos for starting a build discussion, but there really isn't much to discuss atm. Everything is just listing skills in some sort of order. The defining pivot in any character 'build' is your trait build. Then which weapon-set/skill-set you bring (which you can swap out of combat). I didn't mean this to bash anyone here at all, just a slight tip that traits = your build.
    In GW1 a 'build' referred to the skills on your bars and the points allocated to your attributes. Assuming the same is true for GW2, the abilities you choose = your build. Traits just help to reinforce the build and your play style. Or rather... traits are the Attribute part of your build.

    Check out post #14 of this thread, I kind of present a relevant point there.
    Last edited by Malthurius; 2012-02-06 at 10:15 AM.
    "Questions are for those seeking answers. Those who have answers are those who have asked questions." -Mike R. (Malthurius)

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellgaunt View Post
    Hi,

    Cudos for starting a build discussion, but there really isn't much to discuss atm. Everything is just listing skills in some sort of order. The defining pivot in any character 'build' is your trait build. Then which weapon-set/skill-set you bring (which you can swap out of combat). I didn't mean this to bash anyone here at all, just a slight tip that traits = your build.
    I don't think so, the traits only add something to the skills.
    See for example: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_thief_traits
    You first choose your weapons, skills, and then the traits. At least that's what I expect to happen.
    I don't really understand what you mean with swapping out of combat? What's the use for that? I mean, the most important thing is that you equip 2 weapon sets that have synergy with each other which you can swap while in combat.

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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostrider View Post
    I don't think so, the traits only add something to the skills.
    See for example: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_thief_traits
    You first choose your weapons, skills, and then the traits. At least that's what I expect to happen.
    I don't really understand what you mean with swapping out of combat? What's the use for that? I mean, the most important thing is that you equip 2 weapon sets that have synergy with each other which you can swap while in combat.
    What I get from this is that the poster to whom you replied means that getting in and out of combat will make for another very important meta-game.
    When 2v2 was still "srs bznz" rogue/priest or rogue/mage, thrived on this meta game. They had the ability to completely reset the match by going stealth/buble, stealth/invis and drink/eat up => get out of combat.
    You can imagine the same things happening in GW2, mainly thieves/rangers/... will benefit from this. For instance, let's say you're a thief and are using a dagger/dagger + dagger/pistol combo and you meet a guardian somewhere in the map. At first you use your dagger/pistol to try to keep the guardian at bay and not use his hammer(he can also switch weapons). But due to the guardians shields/wards you're hardly dealing the damage needed and you decide to switch to dagger/dagger but the guardian uses his seals correctly and you can't keep conditions up losing a lot of your presure.
    Now comes the great part, you use cloak and dagger followed with shadow refuge and you drop combat, making it possible for you to change to a short bow on one of your sets, now you have better tools to kite the guardian or you can try to escape.

    I'm sorry for the very hypothetical nature of my post but it's hard to explain otherwise

  20. #20
    The Lightbringer Malthurius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meledelion View Post
    What I get from this is that the poster to whom you replied means that getting in and out of combat will make for another very important meta-game.
    When 2v2 was still "srs bznz" rogue/priest or rogue/mage, thrived on this meta game. They had the ability to completely reset the match by going stealth/buble, stealth/invis and drink/eat up => get out of combat.
    You can imagine the same things happening in GW2, mainly thieves/rangers/... will benefit from this. For instance, let's say you're a thief and are using a dagger/dagger + dagger/pistol combo and you meet a guardian somewhere in the map. At first you use your dagger/pistol to try to keep the guardian at bay and not use his hammer(he can also switch weapons). But due to the guardians shields/wards you're hardly dealing the damage needed and you decide to switch to dagger/dagger but the guardian uses his seals correctly and you can't keep conditions up losing a lot of your presure.
    Now comes the great part, you use cloak and dagger followed with shadow refuge and you drop combat, making it possible for you to change to a short bow on one of your sets, now you have better tools to kite the guardian or you can try to escape.

    I'm sorry for the very hypothetical nature of my post but it's hard to explain otherwise
    I'm not quite sure it works that way. I don't "think" you can switch your utility skills and weapons while in a structured PvP match, in combat or not. While participating in events you might not be able to switch utility and your 2 weapons while you are marked as a participant. Same thing in WvWvW. Now I'm not sure, but I don't "think" it works the way you're suggesting.

    If it does work that way, people will still want to stick to single builds most of the time because Traits effect specific skills and support sticking to a certain build.
    Last edited by Malthurius; 2012-02-06 at 10:35 AM.
    "Questions are for those seeking answers. Those who have answers are those who have asked questions." -Mike R. (Malthurius)

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