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  1. #1

    Traits and attributes and what they mean for your versatility.

    Having read about the traits and attributes system in the article http://www.arena.net/blog/play-your-...and-attributes and the calculator http://www.gw2tools.com/ it seems to me that we will not have the full versatility of being able to do 'everything'. Instead it seems that we will generally be speccing into 2 or 3 'disciplines' (either 30/30/10 or 30/20/20) something like that.

    The easiest example would be an elementalist, who has a quite clear trait system.

    Fire Magic: Power and Expertise.
    Air Magic: Precision and Prowess.
    Earth Magic: Toughness and Malice.
    Water Magic: Vitality and Compassion.
    Arcane Power: Concentration and Intelligence.

    Now I am not sure if a 'hybrid build' will be viable (something like 10/15/15/15/15 or 10/10/10/20/20) or if its in the developers have in mind that you will want to excel at 2 things (most classes will be using 2 weapon sets on quick swap, so it makes sense there) and have a third to compliment those 2 main traitline choices.

    So if we assume that a 30/30/10 build is most optimal (that is a big assumption I know, I don't know if this is the intention) does this not bring in a degree of 'trinity' style play for dungeons? For example you would ideally like someone who excels in toughness, someone that has specced into control, someone who has healing traitlines maxed, and someone who mainly puts out the optimal amount of dps. I know the intention is that players are reactive to a situation and do what is needed, and with 2 maxed 'playstyles' you certainly have the versatility to jump between the two, but for example a warrior wielding a greatsword and dual axes as his 2 weapon sets is not going to be able to jump into the healing role (I again, assume )

    Certainly the system is far more flexible than a trinity system such as WoW, we all know this by now, but it was my understanding that you basically could run things with anyone and the 'LF healer' days are gone. However MMO players being what they are, and hard content being what it is, are we going to see people requesting specific traitlines to fill groups?

    My own opinion is that this isnt so bad. I was a little worried that if every player was expected to do everything, a lot of the content would turn into a mess, where everyone would be jumping around doing what they felt was best, and it would feel very uncoordinated and random. Specialisation into 2 or 3 things means that players can learn those roles and perform them better, and there is a little more structure to combat, all the time keeping the versatility of have 2 or 3 styles of play per character. It also allows players to play how they want, and not be pressured into being the person healing or controlling 20% of the time if they really dont want to for example.

    It will be interesting to see how grouping works. Will a group of 5 fully dps specced characters have a much tougher time than a group with a nice mix of roles? will 5 healing / control specced classes be able to put out the dps needed? It sure will be interesting to find out One thing that does worry me is that putting together an oiptimal group for really tough content might be confusing if you dont know how people are going to play and what traitlines they have chosen.

    What do you think?
    Last edited by harkonen; 2012-02-29 at 02:36 PM.

  2. #2
    The healing can't overcome the damage in Guild Wars 2, not the AoE healing at least, only your self heal, even if you have a ''try to be a tank'' buddy it won't work, since his health WILL drop if he doesn't dodge, and let someone else take the role of 'tank'. So i'm not really scared at all.

  3. #3
    whatever people think about this trait system, it function exactly like any other MMO talent trees, depending what way you go, you will become more efficient in that path.

    for example going full Water, you will become better at healing abilities, now had a touch of Air for more crit and Arcane for more "haste" - it becomes a more healing (ok, support so people dont rage much ^^) centric elementalist

    http://www.gw2tools.com/#t-el-akapk:aaa.bda.aaa.Xbe.XYa
    Last edited by Lusitan; 2012-02-29 at 02:51 PM.


  4. #4
    yeah im using the words healing and tanking very loosely here of course.

    I mean there is obviously some point to taking traits that improve your support and survivability, or else they wouldnt be options.

  5. #5
    Herald of the Titans zcks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lusitan View Post
    whatever people think about this trait system, it function exactly like any other MMO talent trees, depending what way you go, you will become more efficient in that path.

    for example going full Water, you will become better at healing abilities, now had a touch of Air for more crit and Arcane for more "haste" - it becomes a more healing (ok, support so people dont rage much ^^) centric elementalist

    http://www.gw2tools.com/#t-el-akapk:aaa.bda.aaa.Xbe.XYa

    While it's true that will allow you to heal for more you won't be able to spend more then 30 of your 70 points in that given tree.

    Still whatever you do you won't be able to fill a pure healer or tank role.
    This is because
    1: There is no real measurable system of threat in the game, thus meaning it will be impossible to keep things focused solely on you for very long. (especially since there are no taunts)
    2: Even if you put every point possible into + healing abilities/traits etc... your healing done to others will not be able to out pace damage taken unless they are extremely proficient at avoiding damage in which case they should be able to self heal.

    This means that

    1: If you plan help allies it will be much better to help them avoid damage in the first place.
    2: It will be best to hybridize at least 1 of your builds & keep different gear sets so that you can switch between damage, support & survivability on the fly to react to the situation.
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  6. #6
    I think it's a great system. Don't get all the freakin' panic on the Gw2Guru forums about fees for respeccing tho. It's beyond ridiculious what's going on there IMO.
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  7. #7
    Fluffy Kitten Bloodhunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blazer View Post
    I think it's a great system. Don't get all the freakin' panic on the Gw2Guru forums about fees for respeccing tho. It's beyond ridiculious what's going on there IMO.
    Besides that I think the fee would be low though.

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  8. #8
    I think the tank role still exists, its just handled very differently. Instead of taking all the damage and threat, you will be perhaps leading groups through unfamiliar territory, being first to aggro them, using more tank styled abilities that actually protect allies and areas.

    The system of proximity and threat, which as colin said in gamescon, is the most common sort of threat, is going to mean that all melees are going to be doing a large amount of tanking, are going to be the most tested in dodging and avoiding damage from what I have seen.

  9. #9
    The Patient Bearcrest's Avatar
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    Nicely trait calculator loooov it !

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodhunter View Post
    Besides that I think the fee would be low though.
    Yes I believe both Martin Kerstein and Jon Peters mentioned this. But give fans a finger and they take an hand, it seems like people want to have the game exactly as how they like it and devs should listen only to them.
    People shouldn't panic so quickly, especially when it's an unreleased game xD
    "It's Better To Burn Out than To Fade Away"

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Blazer View Post
    Yes I believe both Martin Kerstein and Jon Peters mentioned this. But give fans a finger and they take an hand, it seems like GWGuru want to have the game exactly as how they like it and devs should listen only to them.
    People shouldn't panic so quickly, especially when it's an unreleased game xD
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Allanon the Mystic View Post
    Fixed for you.
    Well ye there is where most of the fans camp idd. Not all fans do this tho. I consider myself to be a fan, but it might actually be good to let professionals make a game while interacting a bit with the community. People shouldn't think they are the ones creating it.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by harkonen View Post
    I think the tank role still exists, its just handled very differently. Instead of taking all the damage and threat, you will be perhaps leading groups through unfamiliar territory, being first to aggro them, using more tank styled abilities that actually protect allies and areas.

    The system of proximity and threat, which as colin said in gamescon, is the most common sort of threat, is going to mean that all melees are going to be doing a large amount of tanking, are going to be the most tested in dodging and avoiding damage from what I have seen.
    I don't think it will be a 'tank role' just more of being the 'leading role' imo.
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  14. #14
    I went to that forum, left it 5 minutes later a broken a man.

    It's terrible. It's worse than the wow forum. At least the wow forum has stupid "Punt a gnome" or "can I have a hug" threads to lighten to the mood, even if the stupidity level is equal.
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Eiserne Drossel View Post
    The healing can't overcome the damage in Guild Wars 2, not the AoE healing at least, only your self heal, even if you have a ''try to be a tank'' buddy it won't work, since his health WILL drop if he doesn't dodge, and let someone else take the role of 'tank'. So i'm not really scared at all.
    Pretty much this.

    What I expect is that a group will have to try to prevent as much damage as possible. This can be done by kiting, stunning, using all sorts of walls or bubbles, you name it. When someone does start taking damage, he/she will have its selfheal and 2x dodge. There really is no healing role, as skill 6 is a selfheal and the AoE regenerate spread healing is pretty low as far as I can tell from vids. Some classes will probably be able to absorb or prevent more damage than other classes, but I suspect it will never be enough to ''tank''. However I do think that a group of 5 fully dps specced characters will have a tougher time than a group with a nice ''mix of roles'' for obvious reasons tbh. But we'll see how it turns out to be.

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  16. #16
    I just say- Tanking will always, and always exist, as long you're able to take damage from enemies, apparently.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Eiserne Drossel View Post
    I just say- Tanking will always, and always exist, as long you're able to take damage from enemies, apparently.
    Hmmm ? In Guild Wars, mobs are able to switch targets based on different factors like who is the most squishy, who doesn't dodge, who is the nearest, who uses what kind of abilities, etc ... And with no taunt, there is absolutely no way to tank.

  18. #18
    The Patient Bearcrest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenBeard View Post
    Hmmm ? In Guild Wars, mobs are able to switch targets based on different factors like who is the most squishy, who doesn't dodge, who is the nearest, who uses what kind of abilities, etc ... And with no taunt, there is absolutely no way to tank.
    THIS ^

    I believe any role will have some sort of -avoid- damage ability apart from the -dodge-
    So I would guess any profession will fill any role, it's just the timing that matters and how you use your cooldowns..

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenBeard View Post
    Hmmm ? In Guild Wars, mobs are able to switch targets based on different factors like who is the most squishy, who doesn't dodge, who is the nearest, who uses what kind of abilities, etc ... And with no taunt, there is absolutely no way to tank.
    It was sarcasm, I know you really shouldn't use sarcasm over internet since it's hard to spot, but I just had to

    What I mean is, whatever we say, some people can't understand that Tanking doesn't work in this game. Even if you try to get the best defense, with traits and weapons, it won't work, you WILL go down if you don't dodge, and let someone else take the enemy for a while.

    But some people just continue with ''You're not really able to take away the trinity anyway''

    That's why I said, or more like meant: ''Yeah, trinity won't disappear for you guys until they remove that you're able to take damage from enemies''

    It's hard for me to explain what I mean, since my english is limited, but it sounds so much better in my own head.

    EDIT: Not that I meant that OP thought it was this way, but overall, other people do :P

  20. #20
    Field Marshal Huggabear's Avatar
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    With no threat or taunt Tanking pretty much cant happen. you can maybe spec so you dont take so much damage but that in no way will help you attract mobs might even lessen your chances of getting attacked by some.

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