Forsaken Monks; A Niche Much Needed

[Deleted]

the undead were able to weild light as light is given to those with SELF BELIEF and they weilded it in life before they died so were already used to using it.

there are no undead pandas. -> there are no undead monks

if sylvanas were to "create" some undead monks the pands would probably leave the horde and stop being neutral.

and those "monks" in scarlet relate to the lights religious monks not the panda type who use Chi, as the scarlet ones use the light not Chi.

[Sryson]

forsaken has priests , so why not monks too ??

[Snes]

Great, this is becoming another undead priest discussion.

As for undead monks, as others have said, they are animated by magic, which means every bone in their body is moving with the aid of such magic. Zombies in RPGs have a history of being very strong and doing high physical damage, so from a GAMES standpoint (the appropriate standpoint), it makes perfect sense.

Also: http://www.wowhead.com/npc=11043#screenshots:id=202721
Tell me that isn't badass.

[Chonar]

Thematically, they dont fit in my book. Will I throw a temper tentrum when I see one? No.

Unless it gives me more rage so I can kill them quicker, of course.

I mean, if the whole 'thing' of monks is achieving and maintaining inner balance, then I honestly dont see how the most DARK race of WoW, the Forsaken, have any chance of doing so. Heck, the holy light is supposed to hurt them when they try and wield it. They are devoid of empathy in any meaningful way.

[the_axi]

2. How you gonna monk with no muscles for your punches?

You must turn your enemies strength against themselves.

/strokes beard

[Deleted]

You must turn your enemies strength against themselves.

/strokes beard

the undead have no beards!

[Pest]

you can't debate with a game that sends you dragons via mail

also wtb undead paladins

[Ragingblade]

You can't even use wow lore as an example, druids and taurens are creatures that harness the magic of NATURE, not Light, NATURE! So technically speaking neither race should be paladins, so don't expect anything, blizzard can't even follow their own guidelines.

The moon and the sun are powers on WoW Lore; Elune gives power to NE, The Light gives power to humans, An'she gives power to the tauren; they are "priest" and "paladins" for gameplay reasons, but an human paladin and a sunwalker has nothing in common. (At least in lore).

[Deleo]

The lore stopped making sense a while back. Now it makes as much sense as kid''s stories. Anything can go at this point.

[checking facts]

Thematically, they dont fit in my book. Will I throw a temper tentrum when I see one? No.

Unless it gives me more rage so I can kill them quicker, of course.

I mean, if the whole 'thing' of monks is achieving and maintaining inner balance, then I honestly dont see how the most DARK race of WoW, the Forsaken, have any chance of doing so. Heck, the holy light is supposed to hurt them when they try and wield it. They are devoid of empathy in any meaningful way.

the reason why the forsaken monks are needed is: with so many monks trying to get things balanced, in order to have balance between balance and unbalance, there has to be someone to unbalance things

in fiction, there are many monks who give in to their darkness, decide they want to become the strongest and start looking for the strongest foes they can find and beat them to death.

a pretty good example would be akuma, from street fighter:

Akuma fights only to test his strength and his opponent's. This means that he will only fight opponents that will provide a challenge, hence his refusal to fight unworthy challengers under any circumstances. Akuma will only kill opponents who are as strong as he, which is why he stopped his fight with Gen after realizing that he was ill. While Akuma killed his brother and his teacher, he did so in the confines of the code of the warrior, where the field of battle does not distinguish between friend and foe. Akuma believes he committed no transgression whatsoever. Also, with the exception of Gouken and Goutetsu, Akuma usually only fights those who challenge him instead of picking fights.

though akuma feels more like an orc monk lol

You must turn your enemies strength against themselves.

/strokes beard

lol win

[Chonar]

the reason why the forsaken monks are needed is: with so many monks trying to get things balanced, in order to have balance between balance and unbalance, there has to be someone to unbalance things

in fiction, there are many monks who give in to their darkness, decide they want to become the strongest and start looking for the strongest foes they can find and beat them to death.

a pretty good example would be akuma, from street fighter:

Well, granted, Akuma is pretty badass. But he's also *ethical*, at least, in accordance to the way of the warrior.
Forsaken are anything but.

Akuma is indeed a perfect example of what an orc monk could be. Honed to perfection, purity of combat, honor and discipline, seeking challenge and death.
A gangly shadowy Forsaken, he is not.

[Falrinn]

Lorewise, Forsaken priests can only be shadow because they can't summon the Light. In a similar way, they could learn some martial arts from the pandaren and use them for their own interests. Of course, you are not going to remove the class from them or make a different kind of monk just for it to make perfect sense lorewise.

Gameplay has to be there for it to be a game, if you want a good solid story, go read a book.

Actually they changed the story when it comes to Forsaken Priests. They can wield the light, it's just painful for them to do so. As a side effect, repeatedly channeling the Holy Light does dull some of the effects of undeath. On the plus side it allows them to feel positive emotion more frequently, on the downside it also causes them to become hyperaware of their undead state due to, among other things, being able to taste the rot in their mouths.

Likewise Forsaken of all classes can be healed by the Holy Light, but it's again rather painful. It basically feels like their wounds are being cauterized.

[Prod]

If WoW stuck completely to lore, then they'd have to make race-specific classes such as separating a Human Paladin from a Sunwalker Tauren, the latter of which will probably work like the former but with Sun themed spells instead of Light. Now I wasn't here before wotlk, but isn't it that there used to be race-specific spells which then got removed? So I'm pretty sure that having race-specific classes is out of the option.

I mean, if the whole 'thing' of monks is achieving and maintaining inner balance, then I honestly dont see how the most DARK race of WoW, the Forsaken, have any chance of doing so. Heck, the holy light is supposed to hurt them when they try and wield it. They are devoid of empathy in any meaningful way.

Depending on the interpretation of it, Inner Balance does not necessarily mean being good. It could simply mean having perfect self-discipline which means it's okay to be evil so long as one maintains discipline and not go on a murderous frenzy for the fun of it. And depending on the lore, monks typically are also emotionally detached which means lack of empathy isn't a hindrance.

[Nero Duskwind]

though akuma feels more like an orc monk lol



lol win

Reserving the name "Orcuma" with a placeholder for my upcoming Orc Monk

[ChaosWolf]

Undead can't be monks, huh?

http://images.wikia.com/mk/images/4/...e_Liu_Kang.jpg
He disagrees.

[checking facts]

Undead can't be monks, huh?

http://images.wikia.com/mk/images/4/...e_Liu_Kang.jpg
He disagrees.

zombie liu kang is awesome, but cyber sub-zero is better

[Thage]

Lorewise, Forsaken priests can only be shadow because they can't summon the Light. In a similar way, they could learn some martial arts from the pandaren and use them for their own interests. Of course, you are not going to remove the class from them or make a different kind of monk just for it to make perfect sense lorewise.

Gameplay has to be there for it to be a game, if you want a good solid story, go read a book.

Not quite. Forsaken can most certainly spec Holy in-lore. The problem is, those who do so must either possess exceptional willpower, be extreme masochists, or eventually commit suicide due to the maddening sensation of being able to feel your body rotting, your nerves screaming where your flesh has rotted or been torn away, even pared to the bone, the insects burrowing into your flesh, tasting the rot in your throat and tongue, and if you're really unlucky, you get to feel whatever's eating your brain if the bugs have worked their way that far in. Further, Forsaken who channel or are healed by the Light feel like they're being burned from the inside out, which adds death knights (of any race) to the list of those needing exceptional willpower or a serious kink for pain.

---------- Post added 2012-03-02 at 12:57 AM ----------

I mean, if the whole 'thing' of monks is achieving and maintaining inner balance, then I honestly dont see how the most DARK race of WoW, the Forsaken, have any chance of doing so. Heck, the holy light is supposed to hurt them when they try and wield it. They are devoid of empathy in any meaningful way.

Easy answer: The Forsaken monks are those who don't fancy the whole grim sociopath thing your average Forsaken has going on, so they instead seek to master themselves--perhaps holding Leonid Bartholomew the Revered (I believe is his name) at Light's Hope as a paragon to be emulated, rather than a pariah to be looked down upon. Just like the night elf mages, the orc warlocks, the draenei shaman, they'd be acting against type, individuals pursuing a cultural taboo despite the fallout therein.

[Imadraenei]

blizzard can't even follow their own guidelines.

They made the guidelines to begin with. They can do whatever-the-hell they want with them. It's like telling Stephen King, "No, you're not allowed to write Cujo like that." Stephen King can do fuck all with his stories, they're his.

Tauren "priests" and "paladins" are, in lore, druids. They're just a different sect than the traditional Cenarion druids.

I mean, if the whole 'thing' of monks is achieving and maintaining inner balance, then I honestly dont see how the most DARK race of WoW, the Forsaken, have any chance of doing so. Heck, the holy light is supposed to hurt them when they try and wield it. They are devoid of empathy in any meaningful way.

This simply isn't true. There are Forsaken that merely see their condition as a disease or malady, and do not let it change who they are. See Leonid Bartolomew (sp?), the Forsaken in the Argent Dawn who most certainly didn't act like he was "dark" and addressed the players' confusion on his presence directly. If there's one, there's likely more.

[Strakha]

Monks are going to be ridiculously OP. Forsaken have pretty cool punching animations. But we all know 90% of monks on horde will be belfs.

[Vx-Odessa-xV]

Sad part is thats probably true. ..It'll be elves or trolls for their great "super spinning kick" roundhouse kick animation.