T13 4pc or 2 HC non Tier

[Deleted]

Last week I got HC robes from Morchock, but didn't equip because of losing the 4 pc. Then last night I got the HC shoulders from Morchock. I didn't need on these because I was unsure again, if I would use them. But, they ended up in my bag as I'm the only enchanter on our team. I see there is another thread here about the very same thing, but the discussion was around 1 HC piece, and I now have two.

I've become a little bit disheartened with my priest just now, as hard as I try, I'm pretty much bottom DPS on our raid team. Initially when I got the 4pc T13, I was back up there. But time has passed and the team geared up. I believe without my new HC gear, I'm the lowest ilvl. But, peer pressure had me equip the two HC items. The guys don't believe that losing the 4 set could outweigh more spell power, haste etc.. So I have equipped the new items:

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ickle/advanced

Don't diss me for lack of reforge, as I haven't touched a thing since I equipped them. So I'm wondering, what I should do now. Should I keep the T13 4 pc? Or should I equip the two new HC items and lose that burst rotation? If so, then wouldn't reforging be crit after haste, instead of mastery? And, do I cap haste at 2589 like I have been doing, or just leave it as it is?

Many thanks.

ps. I don't have the glove token, incase anyone was wondering.

[Deleted]

4 set + 1 HC piece > 2 set + 2 HC pieces

By 'around' 200dps

4 set + 0 HC pieces = 2 set = + 2 HC pieces

The difference is negegable.

ultimately, you should use your 4 set plus an HC piece - preferably the robes over the shoulders for the haste increase.

[Deleted]

funnily enough im in basically the same position, I can lose my 4pc by equipping 410 morchok shoulders. It's slightly more difficult in your case as you have 2 HC items. What I was considering was gemming and enchanting them up and switching them in for lootship, as that is the only fight i feel i don't get a huge benefit from the 4pc, then just crossing fingers for HC gloves or something. Either way, I wouldn't de them as if a nice HC token shows up you will be able to squeeze them in somewhere

[Deleted]

4 set + 1 HC piece > 2 set + 2 HC pieces

By 'around' 200dps

4 set + 0 HC pieces = 2 set = + 2 HC pieces

The difference is negegable.

ultimately, you should use your 4 set plus an HC piece - preferably the robes over the shoulders for the haste increase.

I'm not able to use 1 HC piece and still maintain the 4 set, as I don't have the gloves. If I had the gloves, then I would keep the shoulders over the robe, as they have mastery surely? I know the robe has haste, but again, don't we cap at 2589? So no point in extra haste really, or is there?. But ya, irrelevant to me, as I can't use this option anyway.

If the difference is negligible, then perhaps I'll give this a try 2 set + 2 HC pieces, but obviously losing the burst rotation. But again, with this set up, do I continue to cap haste at 2589 and reforge to crit instead of mastery?

funnily enough im in basically the same position, I can lose my 4pc by equipping 410 morchok shoulders. It's slightly more difficult in your case as you have 2 HC items. What I was considering was gemming and enchanting them up and switching them in for lootship, as that is the only fight i feel i don't get a huge benefit from the 4pc, then just crossing fingers for HC gloves or something. Either way, I wouldn't de them as if a nice HC token shows up you will be able to squeeze them in somewhere

*waves at rolf*

Oh don't worry, I won't de them

And that sir, is a good idea. I could keep the 4 set in my bag, for fights I need the burst on - but that's a whole new issue as personally, I'm still unsure. But, if I needed to use them, it's a run to SW to reforge back from crit to mastery - assuming I'm on the right track with 2 set + 2 piece HC

Thanks guys, much appreciated!

[Deleted]

*waves at mz* always good to see mazrigos people

Haste over the VT+2 point isn't wasted at all, it's merely less valuable than mastery (with 4pc), without 4pc haste is still king at any point really

[Reojr]

*waves at mz* always good to see mazrigos people

Haste over the VT+2 point isn't wasted at all, it's merely less valuable than mastery (with 4pc), without 4pc haste is still king at any point really

I think it's debatable that mastery is stronger than haste at any point, regardless of set bonuses.

[Fabio]

I think it's debatable that mastery is stronger than haste at any point, regardless of set bonuses.

What sims i've run do support this - while mastery gets closer to haste, I've never seen it over take haste.

*disclaimer* this is ofc just on sims, which aren't 100% reliable and I've not tried every possible haste+mastery combo :P

[Deleted]

sims don't take into account damage modifiers in fights when popping 4pc out will certainly be a rather huge dps boost with more mastery than haste

[Zarqa]

At my current gear levels (398), with no DI and at 2589 haste, I definitely get sims where mastery > haste. It's with all buffs and debuffs except FM and DI, under the Heavy Movement settings. On all other settings haste and mastery are pretty close, crit is always last.

armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Zarqa/advanced

I think the best is to just reforge for whatever progression fight you are working on at the moment: increased damage burst phases, go for Mastery. Multi DoT fights where 4piece is not optimal, go for Haste.

[cabibi64]

remember we are talking about a 200dps difference in gear, but the amount you can increase on play should be way up

my advice is go with 2set and 2pieceH because a player that is having problems juggling the rotation and raiding at the same time should just got for int upgrades and use the regular rotation

not trying to sound negative, but if you are really on the bottom of your raids DPS theres a bigger issue then gear

[Fabio]

sims don't take into account damage modifiers in fights when popping 4pc out will certainly be a rather huge dps boost with more mastery than haste

Aye, there are some fights (spine springs to mind) where the onus is put on immediate burst. That doesnt change the general rule that haste tends to be better.

But yeah, I'll happily agree there are times when mastery wins.

[Deleted]

*waves at mz* always good to see mazrigos people

Haste over the VT+2 point isn't wasted at all, it's merely less valuable than mastery (with 4pc), without 4pc haste is still king at any point really

Yus Mazrigos will always be home to me

Thanks for the clarification on haste. I really wasn't sure as you can read and read and still get confused - at least I do

At my current gear levels (398), with no DI and at 2589 haste, I definitely get sims where mastery > haste. It's with all buffs and debuffs except FM and DI, under the Heavy Movement settings. On all other settings haste and mastery are pretty close, crit is always last.

I also don't get FM - that goes to a healer, and we don't have a lock, so no DI either. As for crit - it's last on the 4 set, but what about 2 set?

remember we are talking about a 200dps difference in gear, but the amount you can increase on play should be way up

my advice is go with 2set and 2pieceH because a player that is having problems juggling the rotation and raiding at the same time should just got for int upgrades and use the regular rotation

not trying to sound negative, but if you are really on the bottom of your raids DPS theres a bigger issue then gear

Nope, you're not being negative at all. I just want to try what's best for me. I'm not the best player in our raid team - quite the opposite. I consider myself carried to a degree, simply because I'm the only girl and I'm GM too. But obviously I want to do my best, or I wouldn't be posting here. It was the pressure of... 2 pcs HC and you're not using them!?"

I want to use them, but also didn't want to lose my new toy - the 4 set burst.

So, I've equipped the 2 HC pieces and lost my 4 set. We ran FL tonight. Not all HC because we had alts and some new 85's with us. It was just to help one of our guys get the legendary. I was very proud to be top dps on Shannox and Majordomo:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/c...?s=7794&e=8005

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/c...s=9781&e=10215

I can't believe I actually beat our two awsome mages. So maybe the decisions I made were right. We'll see on DS next week I guess

[Deleted]

the funny thing with shadow is we will hardly ever beat a rogue/mage/hunter in equivalent gear in a flat out single target dps off (without DI), its all about using our kit to twist the fight in our favour, be in multi dots or spanking our 4pc rotation during increased damage phases. If dropping the 4pc for the time being up your dps significantly then stick with that for the time being though

[Polarity]

As someone who is in exactly the same boat (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...psist/advanced), I would recommend going 2-piece + 2 Heroic off-tier pieces until you get the Heroic tier pieces to complete your 4-piece. The exception to this would be Heroic Spine, where I would recommend using your 4-piece for the huge burst on the Burning Tendons. You'll also want to have the Valor trinket (Bottled Wishes) for Heroic Spine, but of course don't use it for any of the other bosses because there are a lot of trinkets that are better than it (I only use it because I have yet to even SEE a Cunning of the Cruel or Insignia of the Corrupted Mind in ANY difficulty, let alone win one). Hope this helps!

edit: yay I can finally post links

[Deleted]

the funny thing with shadow is we will hardly ever beat a rogue/mage/hunter in equivalent gear in a flat out single target dps off (without DI), its all about using our kit to twist the fight in our favour, be in multi dots or spanking our 4pc rotation during increased damage phases. If dropping the 4pc for the time being up your dps significantly then stick with that for the time being though

I see your point. I'm used to playing my lock, the priest is still quiet new to me. On flat out single target, the lock is great! I find with the priest though, but prior to having the 4 set bonus, there's no umpf! When TW is popped, other than release the wrath of your shadowfiend, not much more you can do - or is there?

This new setup has increased my DPS when I look at Majordomo HC as an example. But, I've yet to try it in DS, that will be next week. And another difference I see with this new set up, is I'm top on DPS, but also top on damage done. I find with the 4 set burst, I shoot to the top, temporarily, then stay top 3 probably, but on damage done, I'm lower. Compared to the lock, it's usually the opposite.

And btw Rolf, I compared our gear with that link you have in wow-heroes. I saw that I was a minus score on my VPLC trinket, vs your IoCM. Was quite surprised, so had a quick check about and yes, that is a better trinket! So I've replaced mine. There you go, I learnt something else new today

As someone who is in exactly the same boat (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...psist/advanced), I would recommend going 2-piece + 2 Heroic off-tier pieces until you get the Heroic tier pieces to complete your 4-piece. The exception to this would be Heroic Spine, where I would recommend using your 4-piece for the huge burst on the Burning Tendons. You'll also want to have the Valor trinket (Bottled Wishes) for Heroic Spine, but of course don't use it for any of the other bosses because there are a lot of trinkets that are better than it (I only use it because I have yet to even SEE a Cunning of the Cruel or Insignia of the Corrupted Mind in ANY difficulty, let alone win one). Hope this helps!

I agree with that, but might be a while before our team sees Spine HC. We've only just managed to get Yorsah'j down, and we're heading to Ultraxion next week. Thanks for the tip on Bottled Wishes *noted*

Thanks everyone, much appreciated!

[Deleted]

ah yes, it is better in most fights, possible exception being fights with lots of adds, and the cooldown on it is so long it rarely lines up with anything useful, but such is the world
as for TW, pop your volcanic pot, then sf, then reapply dots then AA and go crazy, it's not a gigantic dps boost but you should creep up

[Deleted]

4 set definatly

[Deleted]

ah yes, it is better in most fights, possible exception being fights with lots of adds, and the cooldown on it is so long it rarely lines up with anything useful, but such is the world
as for TW, pop your volcanic pot, then sf, then reapply dots then AA and go crazy, it's not a gigantic dps boost but you should creep up

Nice one, thanks again Rolf. I'll make a macro for that, just so I don't forget.
Just as I was about to syphon off your knowledge in game, you left Mazrigos! But it's ironic I find you here, giving me sound advice - thanks!

4 set definatly

Well I've already chosen 2 set + 2 HC. And changed reforging, from mastery to crit. So far, in FL, it's worked very well. The real tester will be in DS next week though. I'll pop back here and let you know how it compares to the previous week, where I used 4 set.

[Dorfie]

Nice one, thanks again Rolf. I'll make a macro for that, just so I don't forget.
Just as I was about to syphon off your knowledge in game, you left Mazrigos! But it's ironic I find you here, giving me sound advice - thanks!



Well I've already chosen 2 set + 2 HC. And changed reforging, from mastery to crit. So far, in FL, it's worked very well. The real tester will be in DS next week though. I'll pop back here and let you know how it compares to the previous week, where I used 4 set.

Bad choice, but I guess it doesn't matter for normal modes

[Deleted]

Bad choice, but I guess it doesn't matter for normal modes

You scare me

I'm not that aux fait with simcraft, or any other tool that analyses every teency bit of dps. I don't claim to be the best player, or aspire to be. I'm in this for fun, but with a slightly competitive edge

The real test will be a run through DS normal next week. Yes, mostly normal as our team aren't massively progressive. We raid just 5 hours (2 nights at 2 1/2 hours each) a week and we're 2/8 HC. In my opinion, that's not bad going.