1. #1

    How is our disc/Holy priest?

    Hello,

    I am the raid leader of a 5/8 HC guild. We currently have 1 Resto shaman, 1 Resto druid, 1 holy pala (That works on an oil platform for 2 weeks at a time) therefor we take a priest with us. How is his healing compared to you/other players? is it good or is he doing something wrong? Every comment helps! Thanks

    Here is our World of Logs: worldoflogs.com/guilds/190137/

    Here is from our last raid: worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-sj6gu4t4npx5endz

    I know there are some other issues from other players, but don't mind that.

    Thanks in advance!

    EDIT: I can't post links, so had to remove the URL and the http in order to post it. Hope you don't mind!
    Last edited by eirik226; 2012-03-02 at 09:51 PM.

  2. #2
    looking at the logs he was DISC the whole time never holy.. I have never healed disc before, my main is holy / offspec shadow but just by looking through his spells his RENEW uptime is horrifying on how low it is, as well as his PoM (prayer of mending) his amount healed with PoM is 166 THOUSAND (for 5 boss fights - trash not included) my last log for myself PoM healed for over 4 MILLION (4 fights)

    unless hes running 1fps and his spells take light years to cast, he needs to re-think a lot of stuff

  3. #3
    Renew is fairly irrelevant for Disc.

    He isn't horrible, not sure what you're looking for.

  4. #4
    Herald of the Titans Yilar's Avatar
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    Spell selection seems fine. Maybe a bit more attonement nukes, but I guess this depends on raid group.

    Could also probably use pom a bit more, but its not to bad.

    Also paladins are the best healer this patch, so don't worry about the other healers feeling healing is weaker with a disc priest.
    Last edited by Yilar; 2012-03-01 at 03:03 PM.

  5. #5
    Keyboard Turner
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trickss View Post
    looking at the logs he was DISC the whole time never holy.. I have never healed disc before, my main is holy / offspec shadow but just by looking through his spells his RENEW uptime is horrifying on how low it is, as well as his PoM (prayer of mending)
    Have to semi-agree on you, although first off, like Themos said, Renew is a big nono at disc, that's why you don't (shouldn't) spec/glyph it.

    As for PoM, that indeed is kinda low he should be using that more often, especially in high raid dmg.

    I got the feeling your priest is more used to playing Holy, since he's spamming Prayer of Healing all the way, whilst Penance & Greater heal are fairly low. If you're going Disc + Raid healing, go Atonement/Archangel instead & keep up the lovely little wings whenever a high raid dmg is about to hit. Also, keep in mind that you should be looking at Healing done + Absorbs instead of just Healing done (atleast you used to, dunno if that's combined now or not). I had a look at his gear & I noticed he's reforging mastery all the way. That's fine with me, there are different kinds of reforging you can use, although I'm usually sticking to Spirit>Haste rather then Spirit>Mastery because my mana regen is just fine, you can get people up MUCH faster & you get more boss DPS (Atonement, about 6million DMG to boss).

  6. #6
    PoM is what I can track missing from his useage of spells.

    He is using PI & PW:B, maybe he could plan it in to use more often, but that's more a matter of how you plan your CD's.

    As a Disc, his job is much more than just healing, it's preventing/absorbs and lifesaving, so don't go blind looking at HPS meters. A Discs PW:B don't show on meters, for example, while a Holy's Hymn & Druids Tranq does.

  7. #7
    High Overlord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vraie View Post
    The amount of bad advice in this thread is amazing.

    Your priest has reforged into crit and mast from haste, spirit, hit, and most interestingly crit. Or maybe the hit was the most interesting.

    Point being, this individual doesn't know what they're doing in regards to reforging much less using any accepted priority. The unusually high DA tipped me off to armory him thinking he would have more crit than he needed.

    Let's keep going, he only has 1 point in atonement, What.the.fuck and 1 point in imp renew for NO reason. He then skips over darkness totally opting for veiled shadows, lol. Oh and he has no AA/Evange, meaning that atonement point should go into Inner Sanctum

    From what I can gather, he doesn't really understand what to do with his non-obvious talent points, and has made some really bad decisions there. Also, he seems to devalue haste immensely (mistake).

    If you want more detailed answers on how he needs to fix this, post here or message me.

    haha i was thinking the same thing. I honestly started laughing out loud when I read the "renew" post.

    He has very little clue how to play his class. From missing head enchants to a messed up talent tree. I would semi-disagree with the comment about devaluing haste "if" he stacked crit. It looks like they 3 heal most fights so a large amount of haste is not needed in my opinion. Personal I want a TON of haste, but we 2 heal everything.

    Just my opinion. Good luck with this guy.

  8. #8
    The Patient
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    Disc priests don't use renew. They shouldn't, anyways. Really really quick-and-dirty cheat sheet: If he's raid healing, PoM, PoH and shields for rapture procs. If he's tank healing, GHeal, Penance, shield and PoM.

  9. #9
    Your disc priest needs to change their spec, immediately. There are a couple different specs that are used depending on what you want to do. Speccing into atonement but not putting any points into archangel and evangelism is just silly. My 10 man guild's resident disc priest is using this spec set up. He does not bother with Atonement, although it has it's place on certain fights. If your priest wants to run an atonement build, they need to use the right spec. Have him look at the stickied guide in this forum for some of the different options.

    Briefly looking at the logs, Prayer of Mending should be cast on CD. It's an instant cast smart heal. On Yor'sahj it needs to be cast on CD on the tank, since it gives ZERO stacks of deep corruption. For my priest it was 7.6% total healing done on Yor'sahj, yours was 0.9%, 435k versus 42k total healing. It seems like they are casting Prayer of Healing when they don't need to. It was super high on Yor'sahj, with 65% overheal. Four out of the six ooze combos have a purple. He should be using single target heals during purple. PoH is really only useful if 3 or more people in the same group took damage. If not, then single target heals and Binding Heal (never once used Binding heal). He's not using pennance enough either. It's really helpful for keeping up stacks of grace. He's spec'd into Inner Focus, but hardly used it. He's also spec'd into Pain Suppression and used it once. Tanks shouldn't have issues with threat, throwing out a Pain Suppression on the tank at high stacks for Yor'sahj or Zon'ozz is huge. Free heal with higher crit chance? 40% reduced damage for 8 seconds? Yes please.

    Make sure he has a Rapture tracker and is keeping it on CD. His mana gained from Rapture seemed a bit lower than I would expect. Have him read through the sticky guide and that seems like it would be a good start for him.

  10. #10
    Brewmaster ramennoodleking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vraie View Post
    He then skips over darkness totally opting for veiled shadows, lol.
    I spec into vieled shadows over darkness for madness and spine heroic. Come at me, bro.
    Last edited by ramennoodleking; 2012-03-01 at 06:19 PM.

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  11. #11
    Stood in the Fire Ellumina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ramennoodleking View Post
    I spec into vieled shadows over darkness for madness and spine heroic. Come at me, bro.
    I do the same thing, except I'm Holy for Spine (though I'm certain I can do it as Disc, and I would take Veiled Shadows over Darkness).

    @Vraie, I pop my first fiend on Madness in the first 30 seconds before the tentacle even pops. Why? Once PT is up, I pop Jaws, Arcane Torrent, Fiend, and bubble/poh spam. This ensures maximum mana for me, so I can use my SF 4 times during the fight (say at 0:30, 4:30, 8:30, 12:30).

    I try to pop mana CDs as early as possible so they can come back up more quickly. I refuse to wait until I'm at like 50% mana to be popping my first mana CD.

    Back on topic. Looking at his gear, he could really reforge out of a lot of spirit if he wanted to with his HoU trinket. Also he's lacking a helm enchant (all you need is Revered with Hyjal on any character since it's boa). Also the random amounts of hit gear is not very beneficial. Crafted bracers and the VP belt would be better. His spec really bothers me too. Spec out of Improved Renew. Having 1 point there is incredibly pointless, especially consider his minimal renew.
    If he WANTS to use Atonement, he needs to pick up Evangelism and Archangel to make use of the healing buff. 1/2 Atonement is also pretty useless, and is better off going to Inner Sanctum if he doesn't Smite.

  12. #12
    Brewmaster ramennoodleking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vraie View Post
    First Fiend coming at 1:25 on Madness

    First fiend coming at 0:22 on Spine

    What are you doing to dump so much mana so quickly? Especially on Spine
    Casting non-stop. It's also a minor dps increase for the raid. I pretty much do not so idle at any point of any fight, and I'll cast PoH on full-hp parties to increase their effective health through DA. I could certainly perform the fights just fine with the standard fiend, but the play style is effective regardless.

    I was only knocking that statement you made because it was the only thing I really disagreed with, in that either is fine.

    It's hard to say no to Yoo-Hoo chocolate drinks...the name literally beckons.
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  13. #13
    Thanks to everyone who replied! It's a great help and I'll give them to our priest and hope for some improvements!

    Thanks again for your time

  14. #14
    Grace uptimes looked quite low. If he's used to Holy, tell him to put Penance on his COH button and use it on CD, unless doing a pure raid healing phase. If he's assigned to raid healing a lot, then having high healing from POH is fine. Make sure they're reforging properly, as mentioned before. Haste is always good if you are in need of more raw throughput, I think Derevka's been favoring Haste builds as Disc for awhile now.

    Another way to get some better numbers as Disc is to do some more pre-shielding. You're 5/8 HM, you know when stuff is going to happen, put some shields on the raid to soak up some of that predictable damage. Morchok stomps, Warmaster Twilight Onslaughts, Elementium Bolt on Madness, Zon'ozz ball bounces or going into Black Phase, anywhere where you know some predictable damage is going to happen and its guaranteed to hit just about everyone in the raid you can throw a few shields out and soak up a little damage for some un-snipable yet very helpful healing. This is dependent on your mana, don't go crazy.

    You might ask your pally if he's trying to heal low man or if he's just trying to pump out the raid healing. Also, ask your other healers what they feel is missing: heals on the tank or heals on the raid. Ask him to focus more on one or the other, and to follow the ABCs: always be casting.
    Last edited by Felade; 2012-03-02 at 12:26 AM.

  15. #15
    @Saka that spec is fucking horrible. Why is he speccing into desperate prayer, disc priests have plenty of ways to save themselves if needed. Outside of Zon'ozz I literally cannot think of any time desperate prayer would of saved me, but then I very very rarely die. He should have that point in empowered shadows, especially considering he's SoS specced.

    @Vrai veiled shadows is pretty nice on spine & madness heroic. For spine it allows you to use it on every tendon (well it did, not now though as the fight is faster, but may still if your DPS is low). Remember Veiled Shadows isn't always about getting extra fiends, it's about getting them at the right time in the fight. If you have a 7 minute fight for instance, and use fiend at 1 minute in, but then you're close to oom at 5 mins, getting veiled shadows is a good idea.

    --

    To the OP, i'll reiterate his spec is horrible. He has a few options:

    1. http://www.wowhead.com/talent#bfGorRcbsoMochZbb - Atonement disc w/o inspiration, which is not needed as every fight has a resto shaman who keeps 100% ancestral healing up with riptide (or should do). Although physical dmg reduction on the raid is good for some fights.
    2. http://www.wowhead.com/talent#bfhzrosbfRMochZbb - SoS disc w/ inspiration

    You can take points out of inspiration in either spec, I would for most fights, but not Warmaster (your progress boss). You can take points out of Veiled shadows but again I wouldn't for Warmaster.

    Personally I'd go with spec #2 since SoS is very useful in p2 & you really don't get much time to cast smite during this fight.

    His reforges aren't _that_ terrible. While I would go with more haste, crit/mastery stacking is perfectly viable. I would urge him to reforge more of his mastery & crit to haste though, as their value is less in most circumstances.

    Regarding the logs, he does OK on Morchok. His aegis is so high because you're 2 healing, so most of his spells have huge overheal (PoH 70% lawl). He's just stacking aegis, which is what he should be doing.

    Yor'sahj again he's doing fairly well, stacking aegis with PoH & healing people with greater healing (with very little overheal). His PW: S usage however is pretty low on this fight, it should be much higher. You can stack shield on the raid before purple with good effect, and hell he's not even casting enough shield to get good rapture uptime.

    Zon'ozz is when things start to get bad. There's a few things I notice comparing them to my logs... Note: the fight lengths are only marginally different.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=2785&e=3105
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=2743&e=3076

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...&s=2785&e=3105
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...&s=2743&e=3076

    From the first two you can notice I've a total of 469 PoH hits, he has only 195. He has 31 shields cast, I have 43. He has 9 greater heal, I have 74 atonement heals. Our haste differential will account for some of that, but not for the vast difference. Either he's sitting there doing nothing, or he's casting PoH on the wrong people and it's only hitting 1/2 people at a time instead of 4/5. I don't know what tactic you use, but if you're spread out he needs to PoH less, because if it's not hitting at least 3 people it's really not the spell you should be using.

    Following on from the first two you can also notice his rapture gains are sub par. He's on 128k, I'm on 240k. You can see the reason for that in the 2nd two sets of links. Notice his shield usage, he should be casting it every 12-15 seconds yet he has huge gaps. My shield usage isn't perfect either but it's certainly a lot better, and the mana gain is noticeably higher. If you check the dmg logs he's also only using fiend once, WHY?!?!?! He's specced into veiled shadows to get him that extra fiend but he's not using it?

    A quick look at the other fights showed even more horrific rapture problems... I mean look at this...

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...&s=6880&e=7175

    That's just pitiful, he got mana from rapture 5 times in the entire freaking fight. Really, that is so, SO bad.

  16. #16
    Bump for post that had gotten caught in the spam filter.

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