1. #1

    Doom and Gloom vs Mana Feed

    This is a destro question, i saw someone suggest taking one point out of mana feed, and putting that into doom and gloom. Wonder if anyone has tried this, or doesn't take mana feed at all. Do you have mana issues where you have to tap alot? Is it that big of a dps increase?

    Also considering i don't have to life tap at all now, wondering how mana management would be without it.
    Cyner#1996

  2. #2
    Brewmaster smegdawg's Avatar
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    I can't not tap....its been ingrained into my rotation for years.

    DAM YOU T BUTTON!

    As for your question(speculation only as I am at work...not working), your demon would have to crit twice as much as it is now to keep the same mana regen as 2/2 in mana feed.

    And seeing as Doom and gloom does nothing for demon crit chance you would most likely have to tap a couple times. In a single target fight I see it as being a very minuscule increase. And in a multi target fight you will be casting your dots more which uses more mana which in turn leads you to have to tap more again.

    I'd say test it out on the dummy's.

  3. #3
    Bloodsail Admiral Zinnin's Avatar
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    On my main warlock I have 1\2 Doom and Gloom and 1 point in mana feed, never have to life tap unless im casting rain of fire a lot. 403 ivl

    On my alt warlock I have tried it and I generally have to life tap 1-2 times a fight, not a huge deal. 385ish ilvl

  4. #4
    Stood in the Fire gracfuldeath's Avatar
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    Just spent a while on the dummy, with and without 1/2 doom and gloom.

    After 5minutes with 2/2 mana feed. I dropped lowest to like 75% mana, usually bouncing around 80%. (Didn't pop Doomguard, which kinda costs a lot :x)

    After 5 minutes with 1/2 Mana feed, 1/2 Doom and Gloom. I dropped lowest to about 50-55%, bouncing more around 60%. (again, no DG).

    So from that quick "testing," yea cutting out 1 point of Mana Feed cuts a hit into mana, but still no life tapping and not dropping below 50%. So atm I'm assuming as long as you're not aoeing, not multi dotting, or there isn't some boss mechanic that affects mana, changing that one point would be beneficial.

    And even though we don't life tap much anyways for the demon part of mana feed, I felt like testing it anyways. 6+ minutes now of my imp casting on a dummy, 99% mana just after casting fire ball, back to 100% while casting it. No effect there.

    All of this was without raid buffs, and only my DI on the pet. Which makes it a lil more interesting to me because, with raid buffs, possiblity of replen from other classes, and healers using raid mana regen things (like Mana Tide Totem, Hymn, etc), might there be a point where we can drop mana feed completely? :x I wouldn't mind being able to put a point in Jinx as destro by taking a point out of Fel Synergy. But that would only benefit with multi dotting...guess we'll have to see how much 1/2 Mana Feed effects multi dotting before even looking at 0/2.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by smegdawg View Post
    I can't not tap....its been ingrained into my rotation for years.

    DAM YOU T BUTTON!
    You bound your Life Tap to T? Same here
    If you're talking about a PvP point of view I'd take Mana Feed over anything else. Your demons will never run out of mana during arena so you won't have to worry about whiplash/Shadow Bite management. It also makes you tap less which reduces the amount of pressure you're putting on your healer, and at the same time increases your sustained damage.

  6. #6
    Stood in the Fire gracfuldeath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenexis View Post
    You bound your Life Tap to T? Same here
    If you're talking about a PvP point of view I'd take Mana Feed over anything else. Your demons will never run out of mana during arena so you won't have to worry about whiplash/Shadow Bite management. It also makes you tap less which reduces the amount of pressure you're putting on your healer, and at the same time increases your sustained damage.
    Very true. I know I was personally thinking more of a strict PvE only case.

  7. #7
    simming myself:

    "default" build - 45273

    4/6/31 (1 in doom and gloom, 1 in mana feed) - 45299

    7/3/31 (2 in doom and gloom, 2 in jinx, no points in mana feed/fel synergy) - 44907

    So moving one point out of fel synergy seems to be okay, but getting rid of both does end up resulting in life taps (~40 second intervals between casts).

    Overall the difference is so small and you end up losing aoe dps (when mana actually does become a factor) that it really doesn't matter either way. For now I'm probably sticking with the normal build.

  8. #8
    Brewmaster smegdawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenexis View Post
    You bound your Life Tap to T? Same here
    My Warlock = T for tap
    My Warrior = T for taunt
    My Shaman = T for totems
    My Rogue = ......T for stealth

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by gracfuldeath View Post
    Very true. I know I was personally thinking more of a strict PvE only case.
    In a PvP scenario I sort of agree with what you said. 1/2 Mana Feed is good enough. It's not even really possible to get 2/2 in PvP when you take into consideration other talents such as Demonic Rebirth and Demonic Aegis.

    So as Gracfuldeath has said, 1/2 Mana Feed should be great in PvE and very useful if you wanna stay on the safe side in PvP.

  10. #10
    Stood in the Fire gracfuldeath's Avatar
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    Funny. I was about go with gakad, unless you want to respec for one talent point for several of the fights.

  11. #11
    Mechagnome Kildragon's Avatar
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    possiblity of replen from other classes, and healers using raid mana regen things (like Mana Tide Totem, Hymn, etc)
    Hate to be all nitpicky about this, but replenishment doesn't stack, and Mana Tide as no effect on our mana. The only external buff that we would receive is the 525? MP5 from Might.

    However I find it funny that you just thought about this as well, because just this Tuesday I found myself staring at my mana bar during fights, to see how much my mana actually dips. Now this is obviously a less common example, but I thought it was quite hilarious when I looked at my mana bar for HZon'ozz after the black phase, seeing it at 55%, looking back at it 15 seconds later and being at full. I had my Power Torrent proc, and during those 15 seconds I had 2 Chaos Bolts and 2 instant SF's, on top of an insanely lucky streak from my imp.

  12. #12
    Stood in the Fire gracfuldeath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kildragon View Post
    Hate to be all nitpicky about this, but replenishment doesn't stack, and Mana Tide as no effect on our mana. The only external buff that we would receive is the 525? MP5 from Might.

    However I find it funny that you just thought about this as well, because just this Tuesday I found myself staring at my mana bar during fights, to see how much my mana actually dips. Now this is obviously a less common example, but I thought it was quite hilarious when I looked at my mana bar for HZon'ozz after the black phase, seeing it at 55%, looking back at it 15 seconds later and being at full. I had my Power Torrent proc, and during those 15 seconds I had 2 Chaos Bolts and 2 instant SF's, on top of an insanely lucky streak from my imp.
    I was more meaning replen maybe having a higher uptime since other classes can proc it. As for mana tide....hugde dumb moment that I'm glad you pointed out. At first I was like, wtf it doesn't? What the heck? Then after actually thinking, I had a big OOHHHHHH......it's from shammy spirit......and it gives spirit, not mana..... /facepalm Too bad we still don't have wrath days of spirit giving spellpower. That's be a nice reason to have a resto sham :x

  13. #13
    According to the Mana Tide totem tooltip we should get mana from it.

    "Summons a Mana Tide Totem with 10% of the caster's health at the feet of the caster for 12 sec. Party and raid members within 40 yards of the totem gain 200% of the caster's Spirit (excluding short - duration Spirit bonuses)."

    What I take from that is we get a spirit boost when it's dropped. Now since we have such a low amount of spirit in the first place we won't get nearly as much as classes that run with spirit, but we should still get something.

    Now slightly off topic but I had been running the idea of giving up mana feed for jynx for Spine. The idea being that I can cast Elements on some other target and have jynx already be applied to the tendon so I get that extra GCD for the burn. For me sims showed a 5dps gain using that spec. That's definitely well within fight RNG fluff but that fact that it wasn't a loss surprised me.

  14. #14
    Pandaren Monk vep's Avatar
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    Well, if you're having problems with Gloom, try evolving it to a Vileploom. Worked for me...

  15. #15
    Bloodsail Admiral Zinnin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gakpad View Post
    Overall the difference is so small and you end up losing aoe dps (when mana actually does become a factor) that it really doesn't matter either way. For now I'm probably sticking with the normal build.
    Personally I don't play destro on any fight with aoe anyways, or at least enough aoe where I go oom. Since destro's aoe is weak to begin with.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Harsesis View Post
    According to the Mana Tide totem tooltip we should get mana from it.

    "Summons a Mana Tide Totem with 10% of the caster's health at the feet of the caster for 12 sec. Party and raid members within 40 yards of the totem gain 200% of the caster's Spirit (excluding short - duration Spirit bonuses)."

    What I take from that is we get a spirit boost when it's dropped. Now since we have such a low amount of spirit in the first place we won't get nearly as much as classes that run with spirit, but we should still get something.

    Now slightly off topic but I had been running the idea of giving up mana feed for jynx for Spine. The idea being that I can cast Elements on some other target and have jynx already be applied to the tendon so I get that extra GCD for the burn. For me sims showed a 5dps gain using that spec. That's definitely well within fight RNG fluff but that fact that it wasn't a loss surprised me.
    First - warlocks don't get mana in combat from spirit period, so no, it would not affect us at all. 100 spirit or 100,000,000 spirit, we get nothing.

    Second - can you provide the profile you used that only showed a 5 dps gain while dropping both points in mana feed? I don't see how it's physically possible to not have to life tap with no points in mana feed, since going from 1 point -> 0 in mana feed for me resulted in a ~300 dps loss and having to life tap with an average interval of ~40 seconds. I'm having a hard time believing you have that much more intellect than me that you're getting that much more mana through replenishment and soul leech, to the point where taking points in a talent that doesn't even affect your dps results in even a minimal gain.

  17. #17
    Sorry I don't. I was just toying around with the idea.

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