Thread: Block in MoP.

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  1. #41
    I would be very surprised if it made our mastery worthless. However, I would like to see block have some sort of threat mechanic now as its getting nerfed for mitigation. Parry is pure avoidance and it has a threat mechanic, that being said, I think block in MOP should have some sort of effect on our vengeance. Maybe a normal block gives us 10% of damage as vengeance instead of 5%, and a critical block gives us 20% of damage as vengeance, something like that would be nice.

  2. #42
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Seani View Post
    I would be very surprised if it made our mastery worthless. However, I would like to see block have some sort of threat mechanic now as its getting nerfed for mitigation. Parry is pure avoidance and it has a threat mechanic, that being said, I think block in MOP should have some sort of effect on our vengeance. Maybe a normal block gives us 10% of damage as vengeance instead of 5%, and a critical block gives us 20% of damage as vengeance, something like that would be nice.
    except with the current hnage to vengeance generation we don't need this extra vengeance.

    i would prefer mastery to also increase the ammout we block as well as block itself but also make ShoR hit for the ammount we would block for so it scales that way.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viglante View Post
    except with the current hnage to vengeance generation we don't need this extra vengeance.

    i would prefer mastery to also increase the ammout we block as well as block itself but also make ShoR hit for the ammount we would block for so it scales that way.
    that could work. Make it like the current DK Death Strike 'ShoR hits for X, plus Y% of the last attack you blocked' where Y is effected by mastery
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  4. #44
    Very interesting discussion on talents here....It is starting to sound like Prot PvP may be viable again?

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Ealyssa View Post
    You missed whole cataclysm ? Where protpally were the absolute best tank ? (minus some T13 fight with LOT of magic damage OR unblockable huge damage, that blizzard specifically made to counter block tank domination)
    Paladins were very good T11/T12, but I think the raiding community disagrees with you about T13. DK are far superior to Paladins on (Heroics) Hagara, Yors'ahj, and Madness. The only fight I would say that block tanks are better on would be Blackhorn simply due to CTC making damage much less spikey. On every other fight I would say it really doesn't matter which you have, or still favors the DK.

    Also, I think the Paladin T13 bonus is garbage in comparison to DK T13, which is pretty huge on many fights. A 20% healing buff for 4 seconds longer and twice as often can be much mroe powerful than 20% damage reduction.

    I say this having tanked 7/8H on my paladin, meanwhile gearing a DK to kill madness, and have since used it for clearing 8/8H.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Viglante View Post
    except with the current hnage to vengeance generation we don't need this extra vengeance.

    i would prefer mastery to also increase the ammout we block as well as block itself but also make ShoR hit for the ammount we would block for so it scales that way.
    We received these changes because dps gear scales with damage much faster than our gear as tanks. Even with the changes to vengeance late game MoP would most likely still see us having threat issues. Also keep in mind that more AP from vengeance means higher heals from WoG or Eternal Flame, or even the absorbs from Sacred Shield.
    Last edited by Seani; 2012-03-14 at 05:44 AM.

  7. #47
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Seani View Post
    We received these changes because dps gear scales with damage much faster than our gear as tanks. Even with the changes to vengeance late game MoP would most likely still see us having threat issues. Also keep in mind that more AP from vengeance means higher heals from WoG or Eternal Flame, or even the absorbs from Sacred Shield.
    but his proposed "vengeance generation" would then have to take us above the current "max" vengeance or it provides no real benefit and i really dought blizz will make something allow vengeance to go above the standard max or it will be exploited as such and then it will jsut become the "norm" instead of the "exception".

  8. #48
    I am not good writer, but one person described things very well here:
    http://sacredduty.net/2012/03/02/folie-a-block/

    Basically under new rules chance to block from mastery will be heavily nerfed and it will depend from avoidance in dynamical way: the more avoidance you have, the more expensive block from mastery will be.

    I really hope this whole design will be scrapped. Earlier MoP paladin talents were hinting on return of Block Value (under other name), but revised version no longer has such talent.

    Problem with % and not Block Value, problem with double dpenedance of block from avoidance, it is that you won't really feel scaling with gear. Yay, I got new armor, it has same stats as mine but 5% more dodge -> bweh, this 5% more dodge made my block to drop, so I am more open to RNG decide my fate.

    I see no problem in bringing back Block Value. Same DKs currently work in a bit similar way - they scale linearly instead of staying static in %. Savage Defense of Druids works in Cata similar way. Say, they get weapon with X AP more, they will get bigger shields, while paladins are stuck with 30/31 percent shields, which is static amount of damage reduced against individually taken boss if you wear t1 or t111.

    The whole concept of Vengeance and Block % just doesn't make you feel scaling with gear well and often works counterproductive, even pure upgrade (+1 to all stats, or just no compromises) might nerf you at some other side. Blogs in above link are very interesting to read, some cover Vengeance as well. I wish developers would be making at least as thorough calculations as authors of those blogs, as their recent changes smell like being made on the fly without any deep thought in it. The very way GC posted about this possible change is very obfuscating and deceiving: "This gives block a consistent value, regardless of avoidance" - whle in fact it doesn't.

  9. #49
    There is a benefit if it helps us get vengeance capped sooner, the most important part of the fight threat-wise is burst threat generation, that is why we have SOR and use it as soon as possible for boss fights. Id like to see block play a role in threat because that was the previous model with Lich King and earlier.
    Last edited by Seani; 2012-03-15 at 05:42 AM.

  10. #50
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Seani View Post
    There is a benefit if it helps us get vengeance capped sooner, the most important part of the fight threat-wise is burst threat generation, that is why we have SOR and use it as soon as possible for boss fights. Id like to see block play a role in threat because that was the previous model with Lich King and earlier.
    the vengeance change means your generally caped in the time it takes you to block 3 white swings from the boss due to the "% damg from hits in last 5 secs gaurenteed" change isntead of being 5% per hit up to 10% of your stamina the last hits rule takes more than 5% of the damg for a time.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Viglante View Post
    the vengeance change means your generally caped in the time it takes you to block 3 white swings from the boss due to the "% damg from hits in last 5 secs gaurenteed" change isntead of being 5% per hit up to 10% of your stamina the last hits rule takes more than 5% of the damg for a time.
    I think we all know that isnt true, im asking for double the effect for vengeance on a block. If what you are saying is valid than we should be vengeance capped in 6 swings anyway. Anyway developers can take my suggestion or leave it, they said in the dev blogs that they were looking for new ideas for block, just putting mine out there.

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