1. #1

    Demology confusion

    Hi there I'm respeccing back into demo for a couple of HC mode bosses in DS (previously was destro/afflic) and have some questions.

    > I have NM WOU, ICM, COTC and MWC. I have checked out the BIS trinket listings on this forum and currently it shows the best trinkets available to me atm are COTC and MWC. Since the list (and mostlikely my simcraft results) is favourable to MWC does that mean I need to be pet twisting until I can get HC trinkets?

    > If above question is true, how is this supposed to work with the 4 set bonus? Do I ignore using the 4 set and just focus on using my shards for felhunter instant summons?

  2. #2
    I believe WOU is better than Moonwell chalice, should be using WOU and COTC if I'm not mistaken.
    Credit to PaulDok for sig!

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Heatuss View Post
    I believe WOU is better than Moonwell chalice, should be using WOU and COTC if I'm not mistaken.
    Thanks for your reply, I've heard this also from other locks but sadly it seems to contradict this.

    Demonology
    HCoC- 4021
    HICM- 3407
    CoC- 3551
    HWoU- 3403
    MWC- 3278
    CoC(LFR)- 3153
    HVPL- 3073
    ICM- 3040
    WoU- 3036
    DMC:V- 2806
    VPL- 2722
    ICM(LFR)- 2696
    WoU(LFR)- 2682
    BW- 2635
    FGDL- 2476
    RoZ- 2248

  4. #4
    If that's from EJ it only takes into account the proc and not the static stats on each trinket.
    Credit to PaulDok for sig!

  5. #5
    WOU + CotC should be bis normal and bis heroic. Best way to know is simply sim it though. Currently I'm running with heroic CotC and normal WOU. Ditching the chalice was one of the best quality of life improvements I've had in a video game. If I were you, I'd run with WOU and CotC.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Heatuss View Post
    If that's from EJ it only takes into account the proc and not the static stats on each trinket.
    Its from these forums and I believe the writer did take into account the static stats. http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...Trinket-lists.

    ---------- Post added 2012-03-02 at 04:03 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by contigi View Post
    WOU + CotC should be bis normal and bis heroic. Best way to know is simply sim it though. Currently I'm running with heroic CotC and normal WOU. Ditching the chalice was one of the best quality of life improvements I've had in a video game. If I were you, I'd run with WOU and CotC.
    Yes I share your pain! Half the reason why I quit playing demo in the first place.

  7. #7
    Brewmaster smegdawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FruitBat69 View Post
    Thanks for your reply, I've heard this also from other locks but sadly it seems to contradict this.
    I'd think that using your 4 pc on CD would interfere with with the pet twisting, leaving the felguard up for to long.

    And the only reason to pet twist is because of MWC. So probably better off going with WoU CotC(bastard)
    But I have yet to pet twist since I got my 4 pc and specced affliction

  8. #8
    WoU and CotC...........no questions asked. MWC without pet twisting is pretty mediocre. Take this from somebody that just this week switched from MWC to H IotCM and not only saw a personal damage increase, but even my DG did more damage if I pop him when IotCM procs (velocity). Lucky bastard........wish I had CotC.

  9. #9
    Thanks for the advice guys I think I will use COTC and WOU/ICM depending on encounter. Even if I do loose dps no pet twisting its only about 200dps if that guide is correct, something I am prepared to live with.

    One last question, for the second and onwards Demon Souls do I need to delay my meta to line up with them? Obviously I want to use it with my first meta but what about the following Demon souls? Do I use Meta as sson as it is off CD after the first?

  10. #10
    Stood in the Fire gracfuldeath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FruitBat69 View Post
    Thanks for the advice guys I think I will use COTC and WOU/ICM depending on encounter. Even if I do loose dps no pet twisting its only about 200dps if that guide is correct, something I am prepared to live with.

    One last question, for the second and onwards Demon Souls do I need to delay my meta to line up with them? Obviously I want to use it with my first meta but what about the following Demon souls? Do I use Meta as sson as it is off CD after the first?
    You will use WoU no matter what. The only two trinkets to interchange based on encounter are CoC and ICM, which I believe CoC is still even better. You want the 770/880/990 int bonus from WoU no matter what. You also don't pet twist after the initial swap once you gain 4pc.

    You cast meta on CD. The most you would ever consider holding off meta is maybe 10-15s (speaking strickly of single target encounters where the mechanics don't affect our decision on meta use much). You generally stop holding off meta once you drop MWC.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by gracfuldeath View Post
    You will use WoU no matter what. The only two trinkets to interchange based on encounter are CoC and ICM, which I believe CoC is still even better. You want the 770/880/990 int bonus from WoU no matter what. You also don't pet twist after the initial swap once you gain 4pc.

    You cast meta on CD. The most you would ever consider holding off meta is maybe 10-15s (speaking strickly of single target encounters where the mechanics don't affect our decision on meta use much). You generally stop holding off meta once you drop MWC.
    OK tyvm, very helpful.

  12. #12
    Bloodsail Admiral Zinnin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gracfuldeath View Post
    You will use WoU no matter what. The only two trinkets to interchange based on encounter are CoC and ICM, which I believe CoC is still even better. You want the 770/880/990 int bonus from WoU no matter what. You also don't pet twist after the initial swap once you gain 4pc.

    You cast meta on CD. The most you would ever consider holding off meta is maybe 10-15s (speaking strickly of single target encounters where the mechanics don't affect our decision on meta use much). You generally stop holding off meta once you drop MWC.
    This not exactly true, I have H WoU, H ICM and N CoC, and H ICM \ CoC sims out best for demo in my gear.

  13. #13
    I have normal ICM, WoU and MWC. Found WoU/ICM sims lower than ICM/MWC, but that WoU/ICM generally perform better on encounters other than Hagara and Spine, but overall the output is very close.

    Bear in mind the sims done at simulationcraft uses T12H gear as a baseline, not T13 gear so the other itemisation is a little off.

  14. #14
    Stood in the Fire gracfuldeath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinnin View Post
    This not exactly true, I have H WoU, H ICM and N CoC, and H ICM \ CoC sims out best for demo in my gear.
    Ok ok, as always, being so definite on something usually ends up being proven wrong since it only takes one thing to disprove an "always" or "never."

    I was going for trying to give a more general steering direction. Sim it for yourself is always the right answer since 90% of trinket questions asked are self gear specific, but if that's all we told anyone, then people would probably get mad at us for not giving any help. (since probably the majority of people told to sim it, don't.)

  15. #15
    I have found that ICM outperforms WoU on any fight where you can/will line up the doomguard with the haste proc, it is just like popping chalice initially in terms of doomguard damage, not to mention the extra ticks you gain on immolation aura, corruption and immolate while under maximum spellpower and meta which should help to alleviate the loss of a 10 stacked bane of doom. This is purely anecdotal obviously but something to consider. My other trink is heroic cunning.

  16. #16
    The Patient
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    im using insignia and Will regular versions and im loving it also went to the 3/31/7 spec once i dropped moonwell and i get a good amount of demon forms off with it and helps with burst i kno having to recast immolate hurts but i just did 32k on hagara regular and that fight is terrible for locks

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Evillocksp View Post
    im using insignia and Will regular versions and im loving it also went to the 3/31/7 spec once i dropped moonwell and i get a good amount of demon forms off with it and helps with burst i kno having to recast immolate hurts but i just did 32k on hagara regular and that fight is terrible for locks
    There's so much downtime on Hagara normal, and it's honestly not terrible for Warlocks. You really want to be using MWC, this is my most recent kill; http://worldoflogs.com/reports/b7bc9...e=524#Jessicka I could have played it better, but those burn phases are absolutely immense; and it's just so easy to capitalise on them.

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