LFR to normal transition....

[Deleted]

I'm a PvP guy, PvE leaves me cold......what can I say; I'm sorry. But you know Blizzard have this design thing, for certain classes the optimum gear set up involves PvE gear. So I grit my teeth, put myself through LFR, grind some valour and I've got a (mostly) PvE set (393-ish).

But obviously LFR gear's hardly optimal, I'm in PvP guild and everyone wants an achievement from an unknown pugger.
So my questions are:

Any advice for getting into a group without the achievements?
As I said I think I've got 393 level in my PvE set up, with one remaining PvP piece on and one PvP enchant on a PvE piece I use in my PvP set up. Is this sufficient?
How much harder is normal mode (I'm going to guess its much more about paying attention to the mechanisms that 70% ignore in LFR)?

In case it's not taken as read; I made a PvE spec, researched and practiced my rotation and watched a few guide vids. My DPS is always close to the top in LFR although, that doesn't say a lot, in an environment where consciousness seems optional.

[Martinussen]

hmmm... the hardest part will be getting into the raid at first, since normal modes are very easy and even easier with nerfs.
i really can only suggest you to try for a while to talk with the leader ensuring them that you're good, have practiced, knaw EVERY single tactic with ease. If you still cant get a group, get an addon that fakes your achievements to look like you've done it.

[Soisoisoi]

hmmm... the hardest part will be getting into the raid at first, since normal modes are very easy and even easier with nerfs.
i really can only suggest you to try for a while to talk with the leader ensuring them that you're good, have practiced, knaw EVERY single tactic with ease. If you still cant get a group, get an addon that fakes your achievements to look like you've done it.

Not much else to say, Catanowplx hit the nail on the head.

People are so bothered about achievements and item level when it really doesn't matter. Someone refused to invite my pally to a BH run because I was 'too low' (368, wut?) so I got another group, killed it, got back to Stormwind and saw him looking for a Tank still. Derps will be derps.

[cleaude]

I disagree that normal is "very easy", it's miles above LFR. Mechanics matter and almost every boss has additional mechanics on normal, besides the obvious requirement of higher dps.

It is of course possible to get random groups each week, getting the achievements would be the toughest part in that setting, but I don't think it's a good idea. You'll spend hours every week looking for a group and most of the time the group will never happen/disperse or you will be kicked for "a friend".
Try to convince others in your guild or friends to run it with you, less stress and more fun. If you can't find people and don't even enjoy PvE, then that may be a hint that you're not meant to do it.

---------- Post added 2012-03-03 at 02:42 PM ----------

Not much else to say, Catanowplx hit the nail on the head.

People are so bothered about achievements and item level when it really doesn't matter. Someone refused to invite my pally to a BH run because I was 'too low' (368, wut?) so I got another group, killed it, got back to Stormwind and saw him looking for a Tank still. Derps will be derps.

That is so nice for you. Why don't you make a raid for people without the achievement, that should work well, right? Do check back and tell us how it went.

[Soisoisoi]

That is so nice for you. Why don't you make a raid for people without the achievement, that should work well, right? Do check back and tell us how it went.

I do, regularly. The achievement means nothing when you can fake it with AddOns.

I'm on one of the worst EU servers and normal is very pug-able with alts - it is very easy. You just have to find the right people, generally those asking for stupid achievements/IL aren't the ones you want to join. The ones asking to inspect you are usually good though.

[cleaude]

I do, regularly. The achievement means nothing when you can fake it with AddOns.

I'm on one of the worst EU servers and normal is very pug-able with alts - it is very easy. You just have to find the right people, generally those asking for stupid achievements/IL aren't the ones you want to join. The ones asking to inspect you are usually good though.

You regularly run with groups of alts whose mains have done it before, am I understanding that correctly?

Someone trying to make a raid composed of random people does not have the luxury of simply asking people who have done it before, comparing those two situations is simply ignorant. He has to filter the requests and a very effective mechanism of doing that is asking for the achievement. Does he filter out people who have done it on other chars and know what they're doing? Yes, but that is a minority and if you ever tried to make a raid with random people without asking for an achievement, you'd understand why he demands one.

Also, the gear of someone without any raiding achievements is on a level that is easily attained through running some heroics, hardly an effective measure of what that player is capable of.

[Deleted]

Get an achievement-faking addon for those requiring achievements.
When an achievement pops up after a fight you just go "wow, look at that bug"

[vesseblah]

Tell to whoever is running the group that "the pugs i've been with before all failed on ultraxion or blackhorn" instead of faking achievements. Much easier and also totally believable.

You can also read that as ultraxion and especially blackhorn being major step-up in numbers requirement from lfr.

[Soisoisoi]

You regularly run with groups of alts whose mains have done it before, am I understanding that correctly?

Someone trying to make a raid composed of random people does not have the luxury of simply asking people who have done it before, comparing those two situations is simply ignorant. He has to filter the requests and a very effective mechanism of doing that is asking for the achievement. Does he filter out people who have done it on other chars and know what they're doing? Yes, but that is a minority and if you ever tried to make a raid with random people without asking for an achievement, you'd understand why he demands one.

Also, the gear of someone without any raiding achievements is on a level that is easily attained through running some heroics, hardly an effective measure of what that player is capable of.

As I said before, achievement faking addon completely removes the point. If you inspect people you don't just look at the gear, but what they do with the gear.

But yes, run pugs with RANDOM people's alts who have done it before.

[cleaude]

As I said before, achievement faking addon completely removes the point. If you inspect people you don't just look at the gear, but what they do with the gear.

But yes, run pugs with RANDOM people's alts who have done it before.

And how would you check whether they have a main who's done it before? Would you ask for the achievement on their main?

And those addons only fake the chat link, I would expect a raid leader for DS to check whether the achievement is real before starting the raid.

[Firebert]

Use Underachiever.

This is exactly the reason why Normal difficulty is going to end up on the LFR queueing system. Players deliberately blocking other players from progressing and improving their character. Just cut it out. 8/8N is not required to do 8/8N.

Or you could set up your own run.

[Dorfie]

When I make my own groups I only take achievement players. I don't care if 20% of the people without the achievement know what they are doing because majority of the time they suck.

[Deleted]

That is so nice for you. Why don't you make a raid for people without the achievement, that should work well, right? Do check back and tell us how it went.

Not exactly doing it with people without achievements, but whenever I make BH group I just invite the first 9/24 who whispers me.

[Firebert]

Baradin Hold is designed such that PvPers can kill the boss in the previous season's PvP gear.

LFR is designed such that PvPers can kill the boss and have an average item level of 372 somewhere on their person.

Unfortunately, Dragon Soul Normal is designed for organised guild raiding first and foremost.

[Martinussen]

Baradin Hold is designed such that PvPers can kill the boss in the previous season's PvP gear.

LFR is designed such that PvPers can kill the boss and have an average item level of 372 somewhere on their person.

Unfortunately, Dragon Soul Normal is designed for organised guild raiding first and foremost.

and for 8/8 pugging since before the nerfs even hit
all that is needed is 380-390 ilvl+good communication and a little skill. Not hard at all.

[Aceshigh]

The thing that people forget when they advocate "achievements aren't needed, this place isn't hard/ilvl doesn't mean anything" is that you have absolutely no way of knowing their actual skill when they whisper you. When you have zero insight to someone's skill at the game/their class the ONLY things you have to go on are gear/achievements. If I have two completely random people pst me and one has 7/8 and the other has 5/8, I will take the one who has seen the fights. If they pst me and they have no achievements I will take the one who has a higher item level because believe it or not as you get gear the POTENTIAL of your character goes up; shocking. Sure you need to do a quick check to see if they understand they need to gem intellect on their warlock after you get them, but you have to take what you can from these people. You do not know their skill, you have to take into account their experience in the raid (yep I realize people get carried all the time) or the potential of their character.


What I always found easiest when I started out was putting the raid together and making the others show me their achievement that way the raid leader couldn't kick me haha. I researched the fights and prepared myself for them as much as I possibly could before I went in. The ability to adapt on the fly and lead people came in incredibly useful. I now run a raid group that is 1 night a week for 4 hours that is working on Heroic Spine. I realize you're not looking to get into pve heavily or become a raid leader, but this was bar far the best method for me to get into stuff when I was a fresh 80 (OH NO WRATH BABY!) and I had no way to get into Uld.

[Sansnom]

hmmm... the hardest part will be getting into the raid at first, since normal modes are very easy and even easier with nerfs.

Whether it is easy is relative to the guild and people. Sure, heroic progression guild will laugh at the content. Casual guilds that raids one or two nights may find it challenging.