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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Illana View Post
    well if my attacks can be dodged they better make aimed shot instant and have half the focus cost it does now.

    Chimera shot should also get reduced to 4 second cd as well as arcane shot being reduced to 10 focus.
    We can't stop you using bow in melee range that isn't enough? Should you get new spell "PWN shot" Makes billion damage reducing healing by 99.99% and sneering target for 5 minutes"? If they buff you, you giggle if they make something that barely resemble nerf you make a list of "You better buff this"

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Illana View Post
    well if my attacks can be dodged they better make aimed shot instant and have half the focus cost it does now.

    Chimera shot should also get reduced to 4 second cd as well as arcane shot being reduced to 10 focus.
    Won't happen. Play a warrior now and watch all your attacks get dodged by some feral, rogue, enhancement shaman. Not fun but blizzard doesn't care.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Argg0 View Post
    Spell miss chance is 15% while physical miss chance is 7.5%, dodge however is also 7.5%, basically making them equal.
    in pvp spell hit is 4% and physical is 5%? plus, melee need a decent amount of expertise, typically around 5% to negate caster base dodge etc.


    i sure hope the are drastically increasing the hit casters require against lvl 90s (players)

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinpu View Post
    Would be fun trying to hit rogues and druids with quite alot of dodge chance in pvp.

    Dodge spells? Do I need to remind you that spellhitcap is at 1742, and melee hitcap is at 961 and expertise cap is 781 (1742 in total)
    if you missed it, melee and spell hits are being normalized... also, if i read it correctly, then casters will also be using expertise.

  5. #25
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    I doubt this will even make it live. If memory serves right, they said they were going to remove Expertise in Cataclysm. Which they didn't.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Lomppa View Post
    dodge a arrow? have anyone shoot with a real bow before? This is just unlogic. blizzard had to remove the mana as this was unlogic, but now this...
    There are people who can catch arrows mid-flight while blindfolded, why not dodge arrows as well? :P (Yes, I do indeed shoot with a real bow. 2 hours per week. I know its rather difficult to dodge that kind of stuff)
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  7. #27
    It's amazing how much people complain when they don't even understand what is happening.
    Caster dps will have to have 15% hit in order to get 100% on the boss.
    Melee dps will need 7.5% hit and 7.5% expertise in order to both never miss and never be dodged (but they can still be parried/blocked when attacking from the front).
    If hunter shots couldn't be dodged, then they would need just the 7.5% hit and be fine from there (which is actually essentially the current state of affairs). It's not really very fair that every other class needs way more hit or expertise while hunters get away with just needing one. Hunter shots will not be able to be parried, and they can already be blocked (it's like a .2% dps loss, not actually anything to care about) so positioning as a hunter will be unchanged.
    So in MoP, every single dps class will 15% of something - either all hit if they are a caster, or 7.5% each of hit and expertise if they are a physical damage class. Sounds completely fair and not at all controversial to me.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Dannz View Post
    if you missed it, melee and spell hits are being normalized... also, if i read it correctly, then casters will also be using expertise.
    I doubt pure casters will be using Expertise (Because expertise on cloth would be a stupid idea). Hybrid mele casters (enh shaman, Dk's, maybe monks) will double dip in expertise for some spell hit.

    - 15% Pure hit gets you spell capped (for clothies)
    - 7.5% Hit + 7.5% Expertise gets you Spell Hit capped (since expertise also counts as some spell hit), + Yellow Mele Hit Capped + Negates Dodge from Behind

    Just means that Classes like Enhance Shaman dont get the shaft (currently enhance shaman need 17% hit AND a crapload of Expertise to maximise dps) while classes like Hunters dont get a free pass (hunters dont need ANY expertise, and only need basic mele hit cap).
    Last edited by Surfd; 2012-03-03 at 09:21 PM.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Surfd View Post
    I doubt pure casters will be using Expertise (Because expertise on cloth would be a stupid idea). Hybrid mele casters (enh shaman, Dk's, maybe monks) will double dip in expertise for some spell hit.

    - 15% Pure hit gets you spell capped (for clothies)
    - 7.5% Hit + 7.5% Expertise gets you Spell Hit capped (since expertise also counts as some spell hit), + Yellow Mele Hit Capped + Negates Dodge from Behind
    Just to clarify: there is no more such thing as "spell hit" or "melee hit." The current plan is that it will all just be "hit." I'm not sure what they'll be doing with enhancement shaman, but I would think something simple would be just to make it so that if they cast an Earth Shock, it will only need 7.5% to hit, while if an ele shaman does the same thing, it'd take 15% - with the difference being that the enhance shammy's cast could be dodged, while the ele's couldn't.
    Also, the phrase "dodge from behind" is a little misleading. Dodges can happen anywhere, at the same rate. If you get expertise capped, you won't be dodged at all, no matter whether you attack from the front or behind. However, if attacking from the front, melee classes can still get parried and blocked. Overall, that distinction means little, but when people get confused about whether hunters will have to attack from behind, it's important to be clear about that.
    Last edited by Dakiri; 2012-03-03 at 09:21 PM.

  10. #30
    The are called "dodges" but they are really misses.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by BleedingHollowVeteran View Post
    I doubt this will even make it live. If memory serves right, they said they were going to remove Expertise in Cataclysm. Which they didn't.
    It will go live. Removing expertise would further dumb down the game. No one wants to play a game where there are no stats on items, just str, agi or int, one button rotations etc.

    Think of it this way. The reason your focus generation is so bad now, is in part due to the fact none of your attacks can be dodged or parried. When this change goes through, focus regen will probably be double what it is now, or focus cost will be greatly reducted.

    So more attacks possible than at 85 but they now have a huge chance to be dodged against certain overpowered melee classes :P Capping your expertise will mean that warriors, dk's (frost, unholy) and everything else apart from rogues, ferals, enhancement shamans, will not be able to dodge your attacks.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Crushima View Post
    Yeh indeed, all other physical classes have to deal with rogues, feral druids, enhancement shamans insane 30% dodge, so now hunters do too.
    The problem comes that you will want to get away from those classes as a hunter, regardless of minimum range. That alone completely removes the ability to attack them from behind so they can't dodge, unless rogues, ferals and enhancements all decide to backpeddle. Other physical classes are all in melee range of their target and can strafe and jump around their target to negate the dodge chance.

    For PvE this change is nice, because hunters had it (too) easy to hit their caps compared to every other class. For PvP purposes, I wish they'd just make hunters aim for the spell hit cap of 15%. RNG on wether a or not a shot that can cost almost half your focus bar is gonna hit or not is just horrible, especially with the horrible base regen and Steady/Cobra not giving focus unless they succesfully land are only going to make it worse.

    Another option would be to cap dodge at 7.5% chance for non-tanks.

    I'd also like to note that hunter attacks currently can be blocked. I've seen several people in this thread mention that hunter attacks can't be parried or blocked. Only the first is true.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Lomppa View Post
    dodge a arrow? have anyone shoot with a real bow before? This is just unlogic. blizzard had to remove the mana as this was unlogic, but now this...
    We are playing a game with cow men and space squids, where a player can cast fire spells or even summon a storm, where gnomes can wield weapons that weigh more than them. The logic of switching hunters from mana to focus was because hunters pets already used focus, and to break up the monotony of mana users, other words rage, mana, focus, energy. To give the class some distinction from others in terms of resource use. Also from a long distance, you could dodge an arrow if it was volleyed, but this change about dodging an arrow wasn't because of real life physics, it was because of balance issues.

    Case and point and I am sure people will agree with me here; I would rather a video game to be balanced, rather than ultra realistic, because in real life nothing is balanced. Someone that has a gun vs someone that has a knife? Gee, unless the person is a complete idiot with the gun he's going to win vs someone charging at him with a knife from a ways out.

  14. #34
    I feel as hunters go 1step forward 2steps backwards. Just like this case where we lose Dead-zone yet now have to be behind the target at all times, if we lose a exp shot or chim shot we lose INSANE DPS, if we miss a cobra shot or steady shot we lose ALOT of focus regen, this is a horrible change which now makes hunters a "Melee Class" in the sense we will stack on every boss now

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Dize View Post
    I feel as hunters go 1step forward 2steps backwards. Just like this case where we lose Dead-zone yet now have to be behind the target at all times, if we lose a exp shot or chim shot we lose INSANE DPS, if we miss a cobra shot or steady shot we lose ALOT of focus regen, this is a horrible change which now makes hunters a "Melee Class" in the sense we will stack on every boss now
    Why would you have to be behind the boss? You can dodge from behind.

  16. #36
    I was excited to play my hunter in MoP.

    But this expertise thing has killed my enthusiasm. If we're gonna be seeing *dodge* *dodge* *dodge* *dodge* *dodge* when pvping against rogues and ferals, i dont want to play a hunter anymore.

    Tbh i'd rather keep minimum range if it means my shots cant be dodged anymore.


    Someone come stand 20yds in front of me and see if you can dodge my bullet or arrow. Bet you cant.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by D3ViiL View Post
    We can't stop you using bow in melee range that isn't enough? Should you get new spell "PWN shot" Makes billion damage reducing healing by 99.99% and sneering target for 5 minutes"? If they buff you, you giggle if they make something that barely resemble nerf you make a list of "You better buff this"
    yes because being able to autoshoot in melee range while u parry and dodge our chimera shots is really going to be balanced when they cost half our focus and have 9 second cds.

    Warriors get dodged and parried a lot but their MS is 4.5 second cd, overpower has no cd and other melees get their resources refunded when they get dodged/parried and most have spammable attacks

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by icedwarrior View Post
    Quit trying to use logic in a video game that mails you dragons.
    Thanks for the sig

  19. #39
    1. No one said hunter shots will be parried.
    2. Dodges happen from both in front and behind, so there is no reason to stand behind a boss to avoid being dodged.
    3. Logically following 1 and 2, hunters will not need to stand behind.
    4. QQ more because you need to use exactly as much in anti-avoidance stats as everyone else, no more, no less.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Illana View Post
    yes because being able to autoshoot in melee range while u parry and dodge our chimera shots is really going to be balanced when they cost half our focus and have 9 second cds.

    Warriors get dodged and parried a lot but their MS is 4.5 second cd, overpower has no cd and other melees get their resources refunded when they get dodged/parried and most have spammable attacks
    This is the main problem. Yes melee get dodged/parried but then they just try again with the same ability or wait just a few sec. Hunter misses a long cooldown attack, uses resources, hopes to regen them and not get dodged there too, wait 9 sec to use main attack again.

    As I see it they are going to be buffing something else we just dont know what. Getting focus from casting steady/cobra would be nice since even in PvE you have to wait sometimes to use a shot for the last one to hit the boss and give you focus. Being able to shoot in melee range doesnt reall make up for it since any good hunter will still stay far away from melee.

    The only other thing I see as messed up is that casters will need less hit and will not be able to be specifically resisted while hunters can now be dodged. 1 set of classes gets 2 nice improvements and hunters get 1 more thing to worry about. I still think it would have been better just to up the hit cap to 15% and have hit contribute to -dodge for enh shams. Instead they inconvenience a whole class for a shaman spec that they could have fixed another way.

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