Thread: Auto Balancing

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  1. #81
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostrider View Post
    Or add people for a 5v5 again.
    That's entirely different from the auto balancing we are discussing here.
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  2. #82
    The Lightbringer Glytch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostrider View Post
    Or add people for a 5v5 again.
    the ONLY possible solution, taking one person and putting them on the losing team is bullshit
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    Quote Originally Posted by Durzlla View Post
    then again i'm pretty sure you're smarter then the average dumbass

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    That's entirely different from the auto balancing we are discussing here.
    That also wasn't my whole post. It was only the last line.

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  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostrider View Post
    That also wasn't my whole post. It was only the last line.
    The rest didn't need a response. I don't know why you think the rest of the post changes anything about your statement, or my response, because it doesn't.


    Frankly, even pulling in a new player onto that team is hard to justify, because nobody wants to join a losing team - they're likely to leave just as soon as they realize what's going on. I at least hope ANet puts in a vote-to-surrender option. That's one of the best things about LoL matches.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  5. #85
    The Lightbringer Durzlla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    The rest didn't need a response. I don't know why you think the rest of the post changes anything about your statement, or my response, because it doesn't.


    Frankly, even pulling in a new player onto that team is hard to justify, because nobody wants to join a losing team - they're likely to leave just as soon as they realize what's going on. I at least hope ANet puts in a vote-to-surrender option. That's one of the best things about LoL matches.
    As long as I'm not penalized for being on the losing team I really don't care, I'd rather have a good challenge and lose then crush some cripple
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  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Durzlla View Post
    As long as I'm not penalized for being on the losing team I really don't care, I'd rather have a good challenge and lose then crush some cripple
    TBH, I would rather start a fresh new game, rather than be shoved onto a losing team. :S
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Durzlla View Post
    As long as I'm not penalized for being on the losing team I really don't care, I'd rather have a good challenge and lose then crush some cripple
    Well of course we would all like games that are great challenges. *We all love close games of AB or the WSG that is won by capping in the last second, but that just isn't going to happen most of the time. *ANet has to come to the realization that games will be blow outs sometimes. *Which is great! *I love beating up a team every once a while. *But I don't want me and a few buddies to beat the crap of a team and then see that it is auto balancing and be scared that one of us is going to be separated from the group. *Owning with friends is always more fun then fighting against friends on your own. *

    Since there seems as though there is no queuing for BGs, then I dont see how they can pull people from outside the game. *So basically when someone leaves a game then it will either be 4v5 or if 2 people leave then it will be 3v3 after the auto balance. *Both situations are bad for the game. *This is the part I am really worried about.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valek View Post
    Since there seems as though there is no queuing for BGs, then I dont see how they can pull people from outside the game. *So basically when someone leaves a game then it will either be 4v5 or if 2 people leave then it will be 3v3 after the auto balance. *Both situations are bad for the game. *This is the part I am really worried about.
    It doesn't really prove to be all that terrible for LoL, ya know. There are a things that come to mind to solve the problem of people leaving games, although NOTHING can fully prevent it:

    1) You can't hot-join into a new match so long as the match you left is still going.
    2) The option to surrender.
    3) Bonuses for sticking it out to the end.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    It doesn't really prove to be all that terrible for LoL, ya know. There are a things that come to mind to solve the problem of people leaving games, although NOTHING can fully prevent it:

    1) You can't hot-join into a new match so long as the match you left is still going.
    2) The option to surrender.
    3) Bonuses for sticking it out to the end.

    Because hot-joinable games aren't going to be all that long, I will reiterate that I think #3 is the only thing that really needs to be considered. Since you get points based on your contribution, if the points are just withheld and only awarded after the conclusion of the battle and only to those who actually stuck around till the end, then staying in the battle will get you points win or lose and leaving will get you nothing. I think this sufficiently incentivizes staying in games to the point that only people who rage at losing almost every time they lose and don't give a shit about rewards (a type i assume to be an extreme minority) will actually chronically leave games. And, people who have to occasionally leave a game because of real world issues won't be otherwise unnecessarily punished except for not getting any reward for that particular game.

    For a game like league of legends, you only get points (IP) based on time spent in game and a bonus for winning and you don't even have the option to surrender until 20 minutes have passed and a long game can go over an hour. Whereas in GW2 battles, I believe ANet wants the longest games to be around 20 minutes.

    I think that if staying in the game is sufficiently rewarding and leaving sufficiently unrewarding (no points), then you will have few enough people actually leaving games for anyone to even care what sorts of auto balancing measures are in place because you will see it so little and it won't much affect how many points you get even when it causes you to lose.

    However, I do agree that any such auto-balancing that occurs should not split up groups of people who joined the game as a group.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shufflepants View Post
    Because hot-joinable games aren't going to be all that long
    Neither are most LoL games, but I do see your point.

    I think if ANet allowed teams to surrender starting at around the 5-minute mark (honestly, even in LoL, a veteran player can already tell the direction of the game 90% of the time, at about 5-8 minutes in), it could also help speed things along. If you know your team is going to lose, it's not always fun to drag it out.
    Last edited by DrakeWurrum; 2012-03-06 at 08:37 PM.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    Neither are most LoL games, but I do see your point.

    I think if ANet allowed teams to surrender starting at around the 5-minute mark (honestly, even in LoL, a veteran player can already tell the direction of the game 90% of the time, at about 5-8 minutes in), it could also help speed things along. If you know your team is going to lose, it's not always fun to drag it out.
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  12. #92
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    The only downside to the option to surrender is that it leaves the winning team unfulfilled... though at least them it encourages them to join up for another match!
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    Neither are most LoL games, but I do see your point.
    "The first team to reach the score limit—or the team with the highest score when time runs out—wins the match."
    Source: www (dot) guildwars2 (dot) com/en/the-game/pvp/pvp-overview/

    I remember hearing somewhere that the time limit will be something like 15-20 minutes. League of Legends games last a MINIMUM of 20 minutes before the option to surrender even becomes available where GW2 conquest battles will last at MOST this time. And because of how conquest works with getting more points the more nodes you control, if your team is being crushed even a little it would tend to accelerate the end of the game. And some LoL games can go over an hour with decently even games mostly going over 45 minutes. I think this makes GW2 Conquest battles significantly shorter; significantly reducing the urge of some one wanting to just leave because they can't stand to lose for a just a couple more minutes to get their points. As such, I don't think there's a real need to offer a surrender button.

    And as for a veteran LoL player being able to tell the direction of a game 90% of the time, this is largely in part to how much of a snowball game LoL is. You get a 2 or 3 kill lead early on gives you more money which means more items which means more kills more easily and so on. In GW2, in structured PvP everyone has the best stat gear all the time and that does not change over the course of a match. I do realize that there is some potential for snowballing because if you get a significant point lead early on, a team may be able to just hold on to 1 node for the rest of match and still get enough points to win making it very difficult to make a comback since it would be very difficult to dislodge an entire team camping 1 node, but I do not know how much of a lead is required to make holding just 1 node winnable.

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valek View Post
    Well of course we would all like games that are great challenges. *We all love close games of AB or the WSG that is won by capping in the last second, but that just isn't going to happen most of the time. *ANet has to come to the realization that games will be blow outs sometimes. *Which is great! *I love beating up a team every once a while. *But I don't want me and a few buddies to beat the crap of a team and then see that it is auto balancing and be scared that one of us is going to be separated from the group. *Owning with friends is always more fun then fighting against friends on your own. *

    Since there seems as though there is no queuing for BGs, then I dont see how they can pull people from outside the game. *So basically when someone leaves a game then it will either be 4v5 or if 2 people leave then it will be 3v3 after the auto balance. *Both situations are bad for the game. *This is the part I am really worried about.
    I guess i'm just strange, but i never mind owning my friends in pvp lol. I can't even count how many times in WoW me and random person X on my arena team would ed up fighting a team made up of my friends and enjoy it more then the others. But i do agree with you on the whole brand new games > any other, because in reality i'd love to just have a brand new game then anything else. And most the times in WoW where my team actually fought, and didn't just QQ the second victory wasn't going to be easy, we would come back and win in a close game.

    I personally don't see how Auto balancing will be bad.... if as you said, 2 people leave and it becomes a 4v4 who cares? It's better then just steam rolling over 3 people, because 5 will beat 3 almost everytime, and also if you were on the team that had 2 people leave you'd REALLY WANT it to auto balance so you could keep playing and have fun and possibly come back instead of just rolling over and dying a few more times before the enemy wins.
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  15. #95
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    If you really love a challenge, then you'd love to win 3v5 despite people leaving your match. :'D

    Maybe instead of auto-balancing, a team with leavers could get boosts to help them still compete? Now I'm not talking Wintergrasp boosts, I'm talking like... bonuses to capping and preventing capping, whatever mechanics siege weapons have, etc etc.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  16. #96
    The Lightbringer Durzlla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    If you really love a challenge, then you'd love to win 3v5 despite people leaving your match. :'D

    Maybe instead of auto-balancing, a team with leavers could get boosts to help them still compete? Now I'm not talking Wintergrasp boosts, I'm talking like... bonuses to capping and preventing capping, whatever mechanics siege weapons have, etc etc.
    That'd work too, but so would wintergrasp boosts (lol god popping one of those potionts that made you immune to CC for 5minutes and having 40 stacks of that buff made you invincible!! )
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    If that's the case, maybe the lame-asses that leave matches early will realize very quickly that you don't get points from winning and will realize it's not worth it to leave early?

    No need for auto-balancing if winning gives no points, either.
    They are freely to get the points and leave with their half @@ attitude , but as the match is continued > they will get more points till the end , rather than leaving .

    The auto-balance is needed > They must make the teams even > so there would be a circle > 1 team cap the bases and the other team cap it later > again from the start >both team take points > as the video i linked .

    If it was 5v2 without the auto balance , what would happen ? > the 5 ppl would get only 15 points per base (3 bases) , while the 2 would stay in their main base afk >WoW graveyard > 0 points for them > In the end , 45 points would be awarded total for the 5 ppl ( they cant retake the bases = no more points) > they wouldnt/couldnt get +5 points for each enemy killed in a 10 min match (cause the 2 enemys are afk in the gy).
    The necromancer in the viedo had 80 points ( i have seen 110-120+ in other vidoes + they are simply testers , not high elite pvpers )

    Plus , its prevents AFKs/<<Let then win>> syndroms

    > Collect ur points urself >dont afk > dont worry if ur team m8 sux > have fun whatever team u are

    Normal bgs > Fun > Need of Auto balancer
    Rated bgs > Competition

    5 guild members join a random bg and the system try to place 1 of them in the opposite team ? > cool >he dont have to do anything to help his <<newer>> teammates > just afk > he wont get points > he dont like it ? > join a RBG with his guild members .

    They could easily <<wintrade>> bases > , for more points in a 40 min bg > but that wouldnt give them better gear(more stats) at the end

    The companys gives the tool , which can lead into creating a healthy or a sick community , just like this 1

    EDIT: Theres the problem with bots althought ....
    With 10 euro lets say per month , the bot program can gather , even the minimul amount of Points , while u play an other game > thats still bugging me .
    Theres still a Lazy-Town ppl around , that want cool looking gear , with the least effort

    True , u may win over any bot at any time > but day after day , after day , killng only bot > it may effects ur phycology > less motivated to join bgs
    Last edited by Plzbegentle; 2012-03-07 at 11:09 AM.
    GW2 : Plzbegentle - Ruins of Surmia EU - Sylvari Engineer
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    It seems ppl have the energy to whine for a game , for not beeing exactly like their <<main>> game , while it dont have a SUB , and they dont have the courage to whine at their Game Master for slacking and producing few PvE content ...

  18. #98
    The Lightbringer Glytch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    The only downside to the option to surrender is that it leaves the winning team unfulfilled... though at least them it encourages them to join up for another match!
    80% of my gvg wins were from resigns (that is, we were kicking so much ass so fast they just gave up) it fucking sucked we only DP'ed them all down to 60% maybe 2-3 times most would resign well before that

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    Quote Originally Posted by Durzlla View Post
    then again i'm pretty sure you're smarter then the average dumbass

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