SimCity 5 - Launch Discussion

[Sephiracle]

So, are you guys saying that its possible to start the simcity client without an internet connection?

Because its not.

If you pull the cable out of the back of your computer, you can remain playing the game for about 5 minutes (tested last night) before being kicked to the splash screen with a "Could not connect to simcity server, please try again later" error message. So I think its pretty solid to say that SimCity requires a connection. Period.

We've never said you can start the client without an internet connection(might be different for cracked versions).

We've said you can play, be disconneted from the server and continue to play the game. Disconnecting the newtwork cable doesn't instantly break your connection and force you back to the login, you can keep playing. It may be a few minutes if you disconnect the cable, but when the servers were having issues people were playing for literally hours before it booted them. In the recent hotfixes they could've easily changed the check times to see if the connection is still active to be lower or it may be just that way when you disconnect your network cable.

[rhorle]

and I quote.
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...0#post17204530

Please be at least consistent else we can always run in circles with this.

I am consistent. Perhaps actually making an argument would help the discussion then referencing geometry. But why be constructive? Also how long did it take you to find a post from a different thread made about 8 months ago? That is some serious effort that resulted in failure.

Diablo 3 inherently has DRM but it is not an online DRM game. An online DRM game is one like Mass Effect that requires an active internet connection to validate the game either once or all the time. That is DRM that requires you to be online. Mass Effect 1 is not an online game but it requires online DRM in order to play it. According to your objection to my comment you would then be classifying Mass Effect 1 as an online game because it has online DRM.

Is that true, is ME1 an online game? This is why D3 is not an online DRM game, it is simply an online game. Every online game that uses a client and sever has a built in form of DRM. It can not be separated because somehow the server has to validate the client and if you "own" a copy or not. It has to figure out if you are you.

[Sephiracle]

It isn't absurd at all. Because to have a wide ranging game that can be played on more then just the top end computers requires the work load to be reduced somehow. How do you do that? By not requiring the client PC to handle everything. It is absurd to think that no PC in existence could simulate everything. It is not absurd to think that the average gamer computer can not simulate everything.

Most people that buy games don't have "high end" computers. Just look at the minimum requirements for games and how far away most are from what they should be.

It is absurd to think that the servers have to do all this massive 'calculations' and client processors can't do that on their own, because again, the only calculations the server seems to be doing if you're disconnected are the region wide ones, which isn't that much, especially if you're in your own private region.

---------- Post added 2013-03-11 at 11:06 AM ----------

I am consistent. Perhaps actually making an argument would help the discussion then referencing geometry. But why be constructive?

Diablo 3 inherently has DRM but it is not an online DRM game. An online DRM game is one like Mass Effect that requires an active internet connection to validate the game either once or all the time. That is DRM that requires you to be online. Mass Effect 1 is not an online game but it requires online DRM in order to play it. According to your objection to my comment you would then be classifying Mass Effect 1 as an online game because it has online DRM.

Is that true, is ME1 an online game? This is why D3 is not an online DRM game, it is simply an online game. Every online game that uses a client and sever has a built in form of DRM. It can not be separated because somehow the server has to validate the client and if you "own" a copy or not. It has to figure out if you are you.

Wait wait wait. Are you saying that D3 isn't DRM? How is requiring to be always connected and logged into battle.net with a valid key not a form of drm?

[Benitora]

Wait wait wait. Are you saying that D3 isn't DRM? How is requiring to be always connected and logged into battle.net with a valid key not a form of drm?

Drop it.
Seriously, drop it.
Soon he will say that Steam is not a form for DRM, or that Origin isn't a form of DRM...

[Sephiracle]

Drop it.
Seriously, drop it.
Soon he will say that Steam is not a form for DRM, or that Origin isn't a form of DRM...

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills man. Seriously. Done. This discussion far too low for me to continue

[rhorle]

It is absurd to think that the servers have to do all this massive 'calculations' and client processors can't do that on their own, because again, the only calculations the server seems to be doing if you're disconnected are the region wide ones, which isn't that much, especially if you're in your own private region.

It doesn't matter if you are in your own private 1 city region. Because the game would need to be able to run a private 16 city and 4 great works region. It has to be able to do everything that is possible not just one possible scenario. It is also a little hard to tell exactly what "global" calculation effects have on the city because some of those are disabled. Like trade prices on goods. That is one thing that is server side and easy to see the impact of when it is disabled.

But what else has Maxis disabled in order to ensure servers remain stable until they can increase the server hardware. Also remember that Cheetah speed was wrecking havoc on the servers and was one of the first things they disabled to get stability. It still is disabled as speed 2 and 3 are the same speed.

Wait wait wait. Are you saying that D3 isn't DRM? How is requiring to be always connected and logged into battle.net with a valid key not a form of drm?

Please reread the post. I answered your very question in my post. But since you seem to need it, as with a lot of things, explained again I will do so.

D3 is DRM through virtue of it being an online game. An online game and online DRM are two entirely different things because online DRM does not require a game to be online at all. Many offline games like Mass Effect and AC2 have online DRM while their game play is offline. Games like MMO's and D3 that require an account will always have DRM because there is no other way of offering those services.

---------- Post added 2013-03-11 at 01:14 PM ----------

Soon he will say that Steam is not a form for DRM, or that Origin isn't a form of DRM...

If you read my post you would know that Steam and Origin would have forms of online DRM. Again do you complain about DRM when playing an MMO? Because I never see people complain about that when they complain about games having online DRM. What is one acceptable DRM and why is one not? That is why online DRM and online games have two very different forms of DRM.

I hate online DRM, but I don't have online games.

[kivipää]

Simcity has been purposefully built in a way that you have to have multiple cities interacting. You cannot cram everything you need to take your cities to the max level in one city, hence the amount of buildings that unlock things for the entire region. If you go offline and your department of utilities or, dear lord, univeristy, was in a different city, tough. Cities without acces to servers are without acces to region, and will be left incomplete or crippled by the very core of the gameplay design. Saying Sim City isn't an online game is like saying WoW is free to play because you can play it in a limited trial for free.

[Sephiracle]

Simcity has been purposefully built in a way that you have to have multiple cities interacting. You cannot cram everything you need to take your cities to the max level in one city, hence the amount of buildings that unlock things for the entire region. If you go offline and your department of utilities or, dear lord, univeristy, was in a different city, tough. Cities without acces to servers are without acces to region, and will be left incomplete or crippled by the very core of the gameplay design. Saying Sim City isn't an online game is like saying WoW is free to play because you can play it in a limited trial for free.

No one is disagreeing with the fact that Sim City is or isn't an online game. We're debating whether it really had to be or if it was done to 'mask' DRM.

The fact that EA will 'look' at it in the future says a lot about whether or not it really has to be.

[Beazy]

Drop it.
Seriously, drop it.
Soon he will say that Steam is not a form for DRM, or that Origin isn't a form of DRM...

Actually Steam on its own is NOT a form of DRM. I have about 50 games on steam that require no internet connection to play. You can even get into steam in OFFLINE mode and start the games without any connection at all. I do every day OMW sitting on the train.....

[Dezerte]

Actually Steam on its own is NOT a form of DRM. I have about 50 games on steam that require no internet connection to play. You can even get into steam in OFFLINE mode and start the games without any connection at all. I do every day OMW sitting on the train.....

But you need Steam to play those games, that's a form of DRM.

[Beazy]

But you need Steam to play those games, that's a form of DRM.

Nope, there are a few games I can go directly to the install folder and run without steam being activated in online or offline mode..... Torchlight 1 and 2 for example, audio surf and SimCity 4 are others.


How the hell do PC gamers not know this ?!

[Dezerte]

Nope, there are a few games I can go directly to the install folder and run without steam being activated in online or offline mode..... Torchlight 1 and 2 for example, audio surf and SimCity 4 are others.


How the hell do PC gamers not know this ?!

I can't run my copy of Torchlight 2 without having to start Steam.

[llDemonll]

It all depends on if you purchased it through Steam or not. If you purchased it through Steam and have a Steam key for the game and that's it, then Steam is your DRM

I don't even know what rhorle is trying to argue here...that Sim City requiring online play isn't a form of DRM but is a game design feature so that clients can "do less computing"?

[Sephiracle]

I don't even know what rhorle is trying to argue here...that Sim City requiring online play isn't a form of DRM but is a game design feature so that clients can "do less computing"?

To be honest, I think he lost track too. It makes so little sense otherwise.

[Deleted]

I'm so happy I didn't bought this terrible Game. I thought about it, to kill time until HotS Release, but my Brain bewared me.

[Deleted]

My city got a 4 hour rollback. Basically, I'm done defending the online aspect. The only way this region play works is if you've got a full map of dedicated active players. I've played in 5 regions so far, all of them ended up being abandoned as people try out different things.

[SirRobin]

This fiasco has even reached the BBC.

EA apologises over 'dumb' SimCity launch

[Edge-]

This fiasco has even reached the BBC.

EA apologises over 'dumb' SimCity launch

BBC covers quite a bit of gaming news actually, and they do a reasonable job of it too. I fell like there are a few people there who actually know/care about gaming.

[ciggy]

ea ate my girlfriend and deflowered my baby, fuck them.

Infracted. Please post constructively and not spam.

[Sunseeker]

Simcity has been purposefully built in a way that you have to have multiple cities interacting. You cannot cram everything you need to take your cities to the max level in one city, hence the amount of buildings that unlock things for the entire region. If you go offline and your department of utilities or, dear lord, univeristy, was in a different city, tough. Cities without acces to servers are without acces to region, and will be left incomplete or crippled by the very core of the gameplay design. Saying Sim City isn't an online game is like saying WoW is free to play because you can play it in a limited trial for free.

But what people are saying is that they don't understand this necessity. All of that could be simulated on a personal computer. All of that HAD been simulated on the PC in previous Sim City games. You don't even need other player's cities. The game could randomly generate the numbers for "NPC" neighboring cities, then if you the player went and built a neighbor city, the game would then draw the numbers based off that city instead. This is EXACTLY how Sim City used to run. There is NO NEED for multiplayer, other than for EA for force you to go through their servers and control your gameplay.