Page 6 of 8 FirstFirst ...
4
5
6
7
8
LastLast
  1. #101
    op have a good point tbh. Gradually nerfing content rly does completly remove the point of have 3 difficulties to start with.

    imo they should jsut make LFR/normal/heroic content have the same loot. that way clearing new bosses is only about prestige and nothing else.

  2. #102
    Who cares? If you're in a heroic progression guild, you're in the upper level of raiders and what casuals/bads do is of no concern to you. If you're not, then you obviously need and/or want the gear and should run LFR.

  3. #103
    The reasoning of making LFR so people can see content is actually very poor design and logic. If everyone see the entire raid the day that it is introduced in the patch the content is going to go stale much much sooner than previous patches that did not have the LFR mechanic. For some, just getting to see the final boss was a goal for raiding, and now that goal is gone.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Televators View Post
    This doesn't work though, as occasionally, someone who is capable of hitting those thresholds will instead choose to help out when utility or back up heals are necessary and while this positively affects the group, it negatively affects their total damage and dps. This is why you shouldn't base merit on damage alone. Some fights, for instance, require dozens of interrupts and if no one in the raid is doing it, the one or two good players end up being responsible for all of them and losing out on the dps they would have been doing had they not had to do all of them themselves.
    I know that, but some kind of minimal threshold set up, mainly to stop the AFKers and the one attack wonders from doing very little and expecting full contribution bonus. Warhammer managed to set up a pretty good contribution system, and as combat logs are around, it would be relatively easy to analyse who is making an effort and who isn't. Even if it is in, in just the most bare bones fashion, it would make people aware hey have to do *something*. Blizzard is kind of silly, they refuse to ackknowledge, that the playerbase is actually pretty smart, but also pretty lazy, so will find ways to get around having to do anything.
    Also, LFR is an incredibly easy mechanic, I cannot see or think of any of the fights thus far that require anything beyond basic movement and "Hit X" repeatedly mechanics, so it wouldn't actually be too hard to configure when you think about it.

  5. #105
    Scarab Lord namelessone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Canadia
    Posts
    4,324
    Quote Originally Posted by Lightfist View Post
    And what of the opposite end of the spectrum? The people who want all for nothing? Are they any better for this game?
    I have never in my experience playing the game of actively participating in the community EVER met a person who flat out said that they want the highest tier epic gear and the rarest rewards without doing anything. So I can't really talk about "opposite side". Usually below average players just want to have a chance to do something meaningful in the game without being ostracized by the community.
    The night is dark and full of terrors...

  6. #106
    Stood in the Fire
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Belgium
    Posts
    474
    Quote Originally Posted by painweaver View Post
    The reasoning of making LFR so people can see content is actually very poor design and logic. If everyone see the entire raid the day that it is introduced in the patch the content is going to go stale much much sooner than previous patches that did not have the LFR mechanic. For some, just getting to see the final boss was a goal for raiding, and now that goal is gone.
    works like that for me atleast not "raiding" anymore, just lfr, the atmosphere is obviously worse, but there's not as much dedication / time investment required
    Lokann ogar!
    /brofist
    lotharion: "inserting the Lich King as a scooby doo villain didn't exactly make him scary in the slightest."

  7. #107
    LFR was done wrong to begin with. It should've been a tool a group of people could use to find some extra players for their groups, without having to spam trade chat for hours. Not a loot piñata.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Televators View Post
    This doesn't work though, as occasionally, someone who is capable of hitting those thresholds will instead choose to help out when utility or back up heals are necessary and while this positively affects the group, it negatively affects their total damage and dps. This is why you shouldn't base merit on damage alone. Some fights, for instance, require dozens of interrupts and if no one in the raid is doing it, the one or two good players end up being responsible for all of them and losing out on the dps they would have been doing had they not had to do all of them themselves.
    Not true.

    You don't need any kind of utility from dpsers to kill the bosses in LFR. And if you really think that interrupting affects your dps more then like 400 you are sorely mistaken. By the way, achieving 20k dps was easy even before tier 11 so i can't understand why couldn't everyone in LFR achieve the same. If they can't they are useless for the raid and they should obviously be removed from the group due to their inability.

  9. #109
    I stopped playing 7 months ago cauz I was really bored and didn't want to spend 3 days/week to run raids with a guild. At this point I was just doing Arena and ZA Heroics.
    I restarted playing 3 weeks ago with a friend (who stopped like me in august) to try 4.3 and LFR.
    I really enjoyed to pug that easily new content, to clear it and gear that fast (in 3 week we both have 2char with 4p t13, trinket and 1 char with DW weapon).
    Now what can we do? play another toon I guess. I want to be able to raid when I WANT not having to be here 3-4 days a week for a guild, I don't have time for that anymore (work night 2 days/week, training, RL friend and wife need some attention too )

    So Yes LFR is easy, but I saw new content and i'm quite happy with that.
    You want it to drop lower ilvl gear? It already drop 384 gear, that's lower then reg DS

    For me 4.3 is the best patch for a long time for WoW with Transmog (finally) and LFR.
    I'll still take another WoW break for couple months, going back to SW:ToR lvling and will probably come back for 5.0 WoW.


    PS: For raids : LFR = Easy Reg = Normal/Medium Heroic= Hard Stop whining how easy it is in LFR, that's how i'ts supposed to be. For casual or to help low guild before they start reg.

  10. #110
    Herald of the Titans Bathory's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    2,695
    False. Because I am an example of the person who LFR was designed for. To see the content IS what I wanted, it's NOT about loot, not for me and I'm sure I'm not alone.

    I saw the content so I don't run LFR every week. I don't want the loot, I wanted to see the end to an expansion, something I've been denied every expansion.

    I don't see how my happiness is lessening your enjoyment.
    You now stand before the Countess.
    A story of Firsts from around the world:
    http://thingsihaveneverdone.wordpress.com/

  11. #111
    Herald of the Titans Aqua's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Under your bed
    Posts
    2,622
    Quote Originally Posted by bany View Post
    The more stuff blizzard gives me the less interest i have in the game
    Carrot on a stick formula. It worked.

    I don't know why some idiot on their team didn't get the memo but...there we go. Working harder to see the content and laud it over players is what kept the hardcore playing and what kept the soft-midcore players striving (and raging at fellow guild members).

    Now? Everyone is so goddamn...neutral about it all. If anyone cares it's very short lived and unfulfilling.

    Some people might be happy with LFR but these are the people that log in very sparsely anyway. I never understood why they thought catering to the less 'into the game' shall we say, players is the best way to go. Sure make the mechanics more accessible, give more incentives to play. But make it about being unique and interesting, more desirable to spend time playing WoW and interacting with the world/playerbase. Don't throw all of what used to be desirable onto a silver plate and present it to them with a label that reads 'come get it, no need to talk to anyone!'.


    I don't care about how easy LFR is, I'm sure to some it's a godsend, but it's a SHORT-LIVED way of giving accessable content. You can't tell me that when you're decked out in full 384, that you'll keep running it... If you ARE still playing it's because you have interest in other areas of the game, it's not a good thing for raiding longevity though.
    Last edited by Aqua; 2012-03-04 at 06:18 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by savutitus View Post
    Yeah, it's always WAR WAR WAR untill..BY ALL THAT IS HOLY DO YOU SEE THAT ENEMY OVER THERE?? GLORIOUS LOOT!!!!!

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Danur View Post
    LFR isn't and never was about "seeing the content."

    Whether Blizzard intended it or not, to the vast majority of the playerbase, LFR has always been about being a big juicy loot piñata for them to whack at once a week. Proof of this statement you ask? Imagine if the gear it dropped was below Heroic dungeon level gear ilvl, or if it didn't drop loot at all? Who would be in there just to gear up for heroics or for the lore experience of seeing the end-boss go down? Most of the players that clamor for this type of crap saying couldn't care less about that.
    I like how you flip-flopped with the thread title and what you said in the actual post a bit.

    I also like how you know most of the players and what choice they'd make in the hypothetical you gave.
    It's LeviOsa, not LeviosAR!

  13. #113
    Stood in the Fire Loafy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Northern Ireland
    Posts
    478
    I still don't get why people are complaining? if you don't like it don't do it, and if your a hc raider why do you even care?

  14. #114
    what i find much more intresting then a discussion of whether everything should be seen by every1 is WHY IS HEROIC BEING NERFED GRADUALLY?
    Isnt the very point with heroic raids to challenge your raid? what then is the point to nerf everything? it completly remove the point of having 3 difficulties to start with. ppl who are in heroic raiding guilds raid because they like the challenge, so why take it away from them?! it makes no sence whatsoever..

    And if the answer to why is what op suggest (the loot), then why not make all 3 difficulties have the same loot? that way heroic raiding will be about prestige only and nothing else. the way it should be imo.

    ---------- Post added 2012-03-04 at 07:28 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Loafy View Post
    I still don't get why people are complaining? if you don't like it don't do it, and if your a hc raider why do you even care?
    hc raiders whine beacuse content spceificly designed for them is being nerfed.. with pretty much defeats the point in having several difficulties in the first place.
    Last edited by Aphrel; 2012-03-04 at 06:29 PM.

  15. #115
    I am Murloc! Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Norway, Trondheim
    Posts
    5,685
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterHamster View Post
    Since I don't play in a raiding guild, I'll just say that you're wrong. Without LFR I'd never see DS.
    Allright you've probablly done DS 10 times now, do you still run it to "see content" or just for the loot?
    9thorder.com | 14/14 Heroic 25-man | West 114 | Recruiting for Warlords of Draenor!

    Follow our raids on Twitch!Bear - Retribution PoV

  16. #116
    If LFR only rewarded greens I would have still done it once to see the content, kill deathwing, e.t.c. There wouldn't be any reason to do it anymore times though.

  17. #117
    Scarab Lord namelessone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Canadia
    Posts
    4,324
    Quote Originally Posted by Aphrel View Post
    what i find much more intresting then a discussion of whether everything should be seen by every1 is WHY IS HEROIC BEING NERFED GRADUALLY?
    To prevent guild-killing bosses. The argument is that all hc guilds that COULD down pre-nerf content has already done so.
    The night is dark and full of terrors...

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by namelessone View Post
    To prevent guild-killing bosses. The argument is that all hc guilds that COULD down pre-nerf content has already done so.
    It's not necessary to assume that for the nerfs to be justified.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler
    I hate these casual Fridays ruining it for real Fridays.

  19. #119
    People are loot whores. I got experience that first hand yesterday when I ran LFR on my alt. The whole time 2 pieces of gear dropped that I needed, and BOTH pieces were won by:

    The first guy won the tier legs, I go over and expect him and he is wearing the tier legs...

    The second guy won the chest, and I go over to inspect him and he is wearing the 397 version of the chest...

    LFRs loot rules are too lax and people abuse them.

  20. #120
    Immortal Bombkirby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    USA - Boston, MA
    Posts
    6,995
    Without the rewards, the first run through it would have been awful. 1st time we had about 15 smart seasoned raiders, and 10 people who never raided. Thanks to the incentive, people who could do this with their eyes closed carried the new raiders through LFR. We wiped a few times but we did it. And for that I'm glad there's some reward.

    And as said b4, the rewards are worse than normal mode rewards. Thats about it. There should be nothing to complain about other than feeling some1 is violating your "oh so special" raiding.

    ---------- Post added 2012-03-04 at 06:46 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Diaxx View Post
    People are loot whores. I got experience that first hand yesterday when I ran LFR on my alt. The whole time 2 pieces of gear dropped that I needed, and BOTH pieces were won by:

    The first guy won the tier legs, I go over and expect him and he is wearing the tier legs...

    The second guy won the chest, and I go over to inspect him and he is wearing the 397 version of the chest...

    LFRs loot rules are too lax and people abuse them.
    I think thats the point. The chances of winning stuff due to the shoddy loot rules is so low that your better off doing the other modes. Meaning its way more useful seeing the content and getting the VP.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •