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  1. #1

    The playerbase didn't kill world PvP

    I see this argument thrown around a lot here. That the lazy self-indulgent playerbase is the reason world pvp has all but ceased to exist, and that they won't do anything unless it comes with a direct reward outside of the fun of pvping. The, "if you want to do it, nothing is stopping you!" argument. I disagree.

    Blizzard is to blame for ruining world pvp by trying to control every aspect of the game. There used to be PvE and PvP servers for a reason. If you were on a PvP server, you better have been ready to world pvp because whether you wanted it or not, you were going to get it. The reason people engaged in world pvp isn't because they got some reward, or title, or loot, but because if they wanted to do anything in the game, the fight was brought to them!

    Wanted to do a 5man? Hoof it to an instance. Want to do a raid? Get your group together and get hiking to the entrance. Get out there and risk your neck by venturing out int he world to complete your tasks for the day. Creating WPvP objectives such as EPL towers and Halaa bombing runs, as well as Wintergrasp and Tol Barad were fun and well intentioned, but they failed to live up to the hype and contention that true faction fighting and ganking can produce.

    In a WoW devoid of queue systems and flying mounts, players actually had to venture beyond city walls to do anything. And out in the cold scary world, they'd encounter the opposing faction who undoubtedly wanted them dead for daring to have a red nameplate over their head. There is nothing that stokes the fire of PvP than getting killed or camped by someone on your own server. You can come up with a mount that shoots lasers and gives you the title, "Baddest ass of all the land," but not even that would be as great of an incentive to world pvp than pure and simple pride is.

    So in conclusion, no the playerbase didn't kill world pvp. The playerbase is the same it always has been. A bunch of lazy, selfish pricks. And that is why we world pvp'd, because we hated each other, and wanted each other dead. Blizzard should have left it that way, and let nature run its course.

  2. #2
    You can still run to an instance if you want to, the players are just too lazy to do it.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Gingerhunter247 View Post
    You can still run to an instance if you want to, the players are just too lazy to do it.
    lmao! Nice. Assuming you weren't trying to be funny.. smh

  4. #4
    Dreadlord Nosonia's Avatar
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    There cannot be a "world" when there is a simple interface which teleports you everywhere. If there is no world, there is no world pvp.

    Outside of the first month after release during leveling, world PVP ceases to exist, and will continue to cease to exist as long as there is no reason to venture out into the real world.

    Anyone who wants to make serious gold doesnt farm, they play the AH. This is safe.
    Anyone who wants to PVP, dungeon or raid uses an interface or portal to instantly and safely teleport there. This is safe.
    Need to sit for hours waiting for a rare spawn? download an addon and hover 58943058903 feet above it while waiting. This is safe.

    Remove these 3 variables, and the world becomes not safe anymore.. however the first is impossible, the rest will never happen.

  5. #5
    All Blizzard did was give options. You can still go to the dungeon portal, you can still use those summoning stones that require two people instead of your lvl 23 guild perk, you can still do everything.

    When was the last time you personally got a dungeon group and went to the dungeon? If you cared about trying to get more world pvp, start doing it.

    Also most times when I encounter people on my pvp server we don't kill each other. More often then not there is a level difference, but I don't see the need to just kill someone to prove that I can or even go after them when they are attacking some mob.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Dublock View Post
    All Blizzard did was give options. You can still go to the dungeon portal, you can still use those summoning stones that require two people instead of your lvl 23 guild perk, you can still do everything.

    When was the last time you personally got a dungeon group and went to the dungeon? If you cared about trying to get more world pvp, start doing it.

    Also most times when I encounter people on my pvp server we don't kill each other. More often then not there is a level difference, but I don't see the need to just kill someone to prove that I can or even go after them when they are attacking some mob.
    I can't tell if you're trolling or delusional. You are asking ME to go and make a dungeon group? First of all I am not the one who is not out in the world, I tend to spend most of my time in TB as its a non-flying daily hub, and it's one of the few places where you can find players on the ground and unable to just avoid conflict altogether.

    Now as to your non-point, how would me making a dungeon group on ground mounts help world pvp? You are basically blaming me for others who are utilizing the convenience Blizzard has given them. If I gave you a teleporter to get to work, would you ever use your car again? What kind of argument is that? Why would anyone put themselves at risk if they can avoid it?

    The point of my thread was that the players haven't changed, but before they had no choice on a PvP server whether they were in the mood to world pvp or not. That is the point of world pvp, it's unscripted and unpredictable, and is the product of a thriving immersive world.

    ---------- Post added 2012-03-04 at 11:42 PM ----------

    Also, might I add, those that say world pvp is just high levels ganking lowbies, that was because the only players who actually stayed on the ground in the world were lowbie players, and bored pvpers who wanted a fight on their own server would hope that perhaps the lowbie would bring his main and some friends to rumble for revenge. And not even that is an issue anymore as lowbies are better served stacking heirloom gear and chain dungeon-queuing from a city. I avoided all of outland just by chain running 5mans.
    Last edited by Danur; 2012-03-04 at 11:43 PM.

  7. #7
    I think the point of the OP is that you used to be forced to go out into the world to actually play the game and progress. If you play on a PvP server, that meant you were forced to PvP not for trivial rewards, but to actually play the game. Now, even daily quests are built around a "sanctuary" where PvP combat is disabled. You can almost avoid world PvP entirely on a PvP server if you use the system as it is set-up and play smart.

    The idea is that "choice" does not always equate with "fun." It's paradoxical in that way. Sometimes making the game harder, more tedious, more time-consuming, etc. can actually result in more fun in the long haul. But that is something that Blizzard seems to have forgotten all together, in many respects. Everything is incentivized and little to nothing is punished.

  8. #8
    World PvP was obsoleted by the game design. Nobody killed anything. Blizzard had a primordial PvP soup and developed it elsewhere over time into more structured PvP experiences. If you want non-structured, go play GW and eventually GW2. That's the game they made.

    Also, your tone is awfully inappropriate.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Caiada View Post
    Also, your tone is awfully inappropriate.
    Sorry, just a topic I'm passionate about. I came to WoW because of the draw of an immersive world to play in, and open unscripted pvp combat in 3 dimensional graphics. That's all not much more than a memory now.

  10. #10
    The Lightbringer Alceus's Avatar
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    If they managed to create destructible world buildings, world pvp would've been amazing in wotlk. But it vanished with the dances and we only got crumbling gates.
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  11. #11
    LFG: So evil, it went back in time 3 years and killed World PvP by giving players something more productive to do than lurk around quest zones waiting for unsuspecting players.

    Quote Originally Posted by nietz View Post
    Now, even daily quests are built around a "sanctuary" where PvP combat is disabled.
    The sanctuary is just a small area with the main questgivers, to prevent problems due to people piling up on them. Remember Quel'Danas?
    It looks great, but Will It Mog? | Are you fully Glyphed?

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Nathanyel View Post
    Remember Quel'Danas?
    Yes, it was glorious.

    It genuinely is one of the high points in my memory of this game.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Popgun View Post
    Yes, it was glorious.

    It genuinely is one of the high points in my memory of this game.
    This. I also remember guards one shotting anyone fighting near the npcs, a much more hilarious fix to people ganking on the questgivers than sanctuary zones.

  14. #14
    There's a problem with world PVP - it's fun for the victors, and not for the ganked. Period.

    I've played this game since Open Beta, just before it went live, and I've played since it went live. I remember world PVP. I remember the time some (f'n) horde guild was running MC (that meant there were 40 of them) and I wanted to run BRD. I remember it took me over 30 minutes of corpse dragging (rez away from your body towards your goal, get immediately ganked, run the long distance back, repeat) to get inside the instance.

    World PVP can die in a fire. If MOP is as world-PVP centric as the smug dev mouthpieces make it sound, I won't be renewing my sub once the year's worth is over. I should never have started on a PVP realm, wouldn't have but I was following my idiot friends. I'm not about to pay to move all 7+ 85s I care about to a PVE realm either.

    Also, I've played PVE - it's worse, in some ways - people flag themselves for PVP then stand near you when you're trying to kill mobs, hoping you'll AOE 'em by mistake so that they can then gank you. Or people flag themselves and run around never ceasing their crowing about how badass they are for being flagged all the time.

    Here: I've uploaded a video one of us took (Not me) of the time we sacked Tarren Mill. I didn't create the video or choose the song, which I may need to strip out later. Still, the song works. That rage? In the song? That's what I felt the entire time, at the horde, at the tarren mill guards, etc. We were so tired of being ganked - levelling through South Shore was a frigging joke, most of us skipped it after a while. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcacDbFeaJQ

    So to recap, world pvp - glad it's dead, hope it stays dead, afraid it won't stay dead, planning on quitting before MOP ships if it turns out that we're forced into world PVP.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by markdall View Post
    There's a problem with world PVP - it's fun for the victors, and not for the ganked. Period.

    I've played this game since Open Beta, just before it went live, and I've played since it went live. I remember world PVP. I remember the time some (f'n) horde guild was running MC (that meant there were 40 of them) and I wanted to run BRD. I remember it took me over 30 minutes of corpse dragging (rez away from your body towards your goal, get immediately ganked, run the long distance back, repeat) to get inside the instance.

    World PVP can die in a fire. If MOP is as world-PVP centric as the smug dev mouthpieces make it sound, I won't be renewing my sub once the year's worth is over. I should never have started on a PVP realm, wouldn't have but I was following my idiot friends. I'm not about to pay to move all 7+ 85s I care about to a PVE realm either.

    Also, I've played PVE - it's worse, in some ways - people flag themselves for PVP then stand near you when you're trying to kill mobs, hoping you'll AOE 'em by mistake so that they can then gank you. Or people flag themselves and run around never ceasing their crowing about how badass they are for being flagged all the time.

    Here: I've uploaded a video one of us took (Not me) of the time we sacked Tarren Mill. I didn't create the video or choose the song, which I may need to strip out later. Still, the song works. That rage? In the song? That's what I felt the entire time, at the horde, at the tarren mill guards, etc. We were so tired of being ganked - levelling through South Shore was a frigging joke, most of us skipped it after a while. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcacDbFeaJQ

    So to recap, world pvp - glad it's dead, hope it stays dead, afraid it won't stay dead, planning on quitting before MOP ships if it turns out that we're forced into world PVP.
    There's absolutely no design in MoP they've announced that could possibly revive world PvP in any significant fashion, let alone force people into it. I don't think there's any change they could make in this game that could revive it.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by markdall View Post
    There's a problem with world PVP - it's fun for the victors, and not for the ganked. Period.

    I've played this game since Open Beta, just before it went live, and I've played since it went live. I remember world PVP. I remember the time some (f'n) horde guild was running MC (that meant there were 40 of them) and I wanted to run BRD. I remember it took me over 30 minutes of corpse dragging (rez away from your body towards your goal, get immediately ganked, run the long distance back, repeat) to get inside the instance.

    World PVP can die in a fire. If MOP is as world-PVP centric as the smug dev mouthpieces make it sound, I won't be renewing my sub once the year's worth is over. I should never have started on a PVP realm, wouldn't have but I was following my idiot friends. I'm not about to pay to move all 7+ 85s I care about to a PVE realm either.

    Also, I've played PVE - it's worse, in some ways - people flag themselves for PVP then stand near you when you're trying to kill mobs, hoping you'll AOE 'em by mistake so that they can then gank you. Or people flag themselves and run around never ceasing their crowing about how badass they are for being flagged all the time.

    Here: I've uploaded a video one of us took (Not me) of the time we sacked Tarren Mill. I didn't create the video or choose the song, which I may need to strip out later. Still, the song works. That rage? In the song? That's what I felt the entire time, at the horde, at the tarren mill guards, etc. We were so tired of being ganked - levelling through South Shore was a frigging joke, most of us skipped it after a while. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcacDbFeaJQ

    So to recap, world pvp - glad it's dead, hope it stays dead, afraid it won't stay dead, planning on quitting before MOP ships if it turns out that we're forced into world PVP.
    That emotion. That feeling you had. That is what motivates pvpers on both the dishing and receiving sides.

    My guild had repeatedly over the years waged crushing wars of 50+ people, none of it planned or expected, just sheer escalation over those feelings you had.And even with Alliance being outnumbered overall on our server, they came out in force to match our numbers if not overwhelm us. For a while during WoTLK, Sholazar Basin was officially off-limits to Horde players, and if you touched the ground in any part of it, you were quickly overwhelmed and destroyed. It was glorious!

    I feel the passion you have in your words, and it fuels me. Perhaps it's too much for you, and you should be on a PvE server. It would be nice if Blizzard gave some free xfers in exchange for making PvP servers back to the way they used to be, instead of the shadow of their former self they are today.

  17. #17
    Or an aggrogant self-centred playerbase that thinks ganking an unprepared or defenceless opponent constitutes world pvp.
    Ganking is not world pvp. Ganking is the only thing flying makes harder.
    World pvp is about fighting for control, with Tarren Mill/Southshore being a perfect example of what that was.
    Flying would only boost that.

    The arguement keeps coming up because its true, but people who cant look past their damage meters can't accept the truth.

    PvP - Player vs Player - there is no vs in ganking and choosing an easy opponent.
    That is not PvP.

    Batttlegrounds took a lot more away from it than flying ever did, so yes if you want to go blame blizzard then at least blame the right changes.
    Though those changes were only driven by player demand. So actually those doing the most complaining about world pvp are those responsible for the problem in the first place, but are only too damn stupid to see it.

    Battlegrounds offered battles on-demand, with better rewards and in most cases a far more balanced start position that was not reliant on a sufficient population that gave a damn.
    Last edited by ComputerNerd; 2012-03-05 at 12:49 AM.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Danur View Post
    My guild had repeatedly over the years waged crushing wars of 50+ people, none of it planned or expected, just sheer escalation over those feelings you had.And even with Alliance being outnumbered overall on our server, they came out in force to match our numbers if not overwhelm us. For a while during WoTLK, Sholazar Basin was officially off-limits to Horde players, and if you touched the ground in any part of it, you were quickly overwhelmed and destroyed. It was glorious!
    from what i've heard, its because you pretty much had nothing better to do. that didn't mean world pvp was actually fun or a high point in the game that people actually loved, its that when you had other more meaningful things to spend your time on, along with pvp that actually netted you something, 95% of the world pvpers realized that world pvp was not all its cracked up to be. then you take into account pieces like faction discrepancy where 1 side could essentially never quest in a major quest hub and you only gain a negative stigma towards world pvp.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cattaclysmic View Post
    The evidence for leprechauns is immense - do you know how many socks dissappear on the world scale... This means that the chance of leprechauns exists is the same as them not existing - therefore you cannot deny their existence

  19. #19
    World pvp isn't completely dead. You have to actually get out of orgrimmar/stormwind if you want to world pvp.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by ComputerNerd View Post
    Or an aggrogant self-centred playerbase that thinks ganking an unprepared or defenceless opponent constitutes world pvp.
    Ganking is not world pvp. Ganking is the only thing flying makes harder.
    World pvp is about fighting for control, with Tarren Mill/Southshore being a perfect example of what that was.
    Flying would only boost that.

    The arguement keeps coming up because its true, but people who cant look past their damage meters can't accept the truth.

    PvP - Player vs Player - there is no vs in ganking and choosing an easy opponent.
    That is not PvP.

    Batttlegrounds took a lot more away from it than flying ever did, so yes if you want to go blame blizzard then at least blame the right changes.
    Though those changes were only driven by player demand. So actually those doing the most complaining about world pvp are those responsible for the problem in the first place, but are only too damn stupid to see it.

    Battlegrounds offered battles on-demand, with better rewards and in most cases a far more balanced start position that was not reliant on a sufficient population that gave a damn.
    Well don't paint me with that brush. I have a long history of not attacking anyone but those who looked geared. Those with PvP titles were the top of my hit list, because I knew they had the skills, and the ego to hurt when I'd kill them. Making a list of every Gladiator on my server was my top priority, and dismantling them 1v1 when they didn't have the benefit of their teammates around was always worth a giggle.

    Going headfirst into stormwind with 2-4 people with me, and taking over the bank was always a fun pastime, but nowadays doing that with the guards the way they are now is almost impossible once a few enemy players pile up on you. I gotta tell you, there's nothing more satisfying than being outnumbered 2 and sometimes 3 to one, and being able to systematically burn them down and emerge victorious on your own server.

    Creating roadblocks on important bottleneck routes, and by instance portals was also always fun.

    And I'm not just talking about Vanilla WoW here. This is BC on and honestly the highest point being during WoTLK. The Nexus summoning stone was always a warzone due to people needing to summon back then for both the 5mans and EoE.

    Alas...no more.

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