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  1. #21
    The Patient Skyepic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    DoT's falling off during Eclipse won't be an issue. The energy required for a full cycle with Incarnation is also only 100 higher than without, or 25%.(normal: (100+100)*2=400, Incarnation: (200+50)*2=500) Keep in mind that Moonfire won't overwrite Sunfire and vice versa.

    Also, how would Mirror Images replace FoN? What's stopping us from just using both?
    Totally forgot about DoTs being refreshed now from casts thanks for that.

    But that's not exactly true for incarnation unless they change the energy givin for starfire and Wrath. I'll use starfire as an example since it's an easier number scale to handle.

    Current: Lunar - 0: 5 starfires (5 gcd's) 0 - solar: 5 starfires (5 gcd's) 10 starfires total to go from Lunar - Solar
    Incarnation: Lunar - 0: 10 starfires (10 gcd's) 0 - Solar 2.5 starfires (3gcd's) 13 Starfires total to go from Lunar - Solar

    Now obviously this is open to change a tad because of starsurges but on average, wit incarnation you're doubling the longevity of Lunar, however you're trip from 0 - solar isn't EXACTLY halfed because you can't cast half a starfire. Even with a starsurge it would not help. Not sure how the math for wraths work out, but everytime you go from Lunar - Solar you're going to be wasting energy. So you're not getting 100% benefit from the talent, where as Soul of the Forest will always give you 100% benefit. And as i stated earlier, a boomkin will benefit more from faster transitions rather than prolinging a single eclipse.

    As for the treants vs. mirror images the game will explode from having 6 pets out at once! But no, treants as they are now aren't a super huge cool down as is (think they do like 150K damage assuming they stay alive the entire time?). So why not replace the lil stumps with three awesome temporary feathery friends of your own? Fairly certain mirror images do more damage than treants. Could be wrong though
    Last edited by Skyepic; 2012-03-07 at 04:01 PM.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Skyepic View Post
    Don't have the exact post (and it could be merely speculation) but as far as i know / heard symbiosis on a mage gives us mirror images.

    Edit: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...54?page=23#450 found the post, read the blue reply
    Nvm me :P I misread it as : We get their Mirror Image and they get our Force of Nature through Symbiosis.... *note to self: read more carefully*

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Skyepic View Post
    As for the treants vs. mirror images the game will explode from having 6 pets out at once! But no, treants as they are now aren't a super huge cool down as is (think they do like 150K damage assuming they stay alive the entire time?). So why not replace the lil stumps with three awesome temporary feathery friends of your own? Fairly certain mirror images do more damage than treants. Could be wrong though
    I hope you're not serious here.

    Obviously treants will be brought on par with SotF/Incarnation - alone for the fact that they have to benefit each role now.

  4. #24
    The Patient Skyepic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stormgust View Post
    I hope you're not serious here.

    Obviously treants will be brought on par with SotF/Incarnation - alone for the fact that they have to benefit each role now.
    That's merely speculation though. HOPEFULLY treants will be brought on par, but that doesn't mean they are going to be perfect. You also have to take into consideration the fact that incarnation and SotF will become larger benefits with gear, however treants haven't been known to scale greatly with increased Ilvl gear (unless they fix this in MoP) meaning the better the Ilvl gear / more haste you get incarnation and SotF will become more valuable, however treants will not. If treants are too powerful (i.e becoming a big enough role in a boomkins dps to keep it "on par with incarnation and SotF) in a PvE scenario, it will become OP in PvP.

    No matter how hard blizzard tries, realistically not every ability in each tier of specialization is going to carry the same weight. Unfortunately in this tier Force of Nature seems to be the weakest of the 3. Unless treants become Warlock Doomguard status. A personal buff will more than likely outweigh a pet buff / summon if given the option to choose between the 2.

    Just looking through my logs, on this weeks H ultraxion kill my treants did 232K .09%. One of our mages mirror images did 150K.That's really not too big of a difference. And if SotF were live today, i'm pretty sure i'd get more than a .09% dps increase in 5 and a half minute fight.
    Last edited by Skyepic; 2012-03-07 at 06:22 PM.

  5. #25
    High Overlord Xozat's Avatar
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    Is Insect Swarm's time gonna be increased? Right now it's what? 30 seconds? Will it put up to 1 minute?

  6. #26
    Zookeeper Sunfyre's Avatar
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    I have a feeling FoN will change to something similar to Guardian of Ancient Kings and buff us instead of doing direct damage.*

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  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Xozat View Post
    Is Insect Swarm's time gonna be increased? Right now it's what? 30 seconds? Will it put up to 1 minute?
    According to the calculator, it's already at 1min.

  8. #28
    I hope we get a different*moonkin*form though. Like a glyph, like Shadow Priests have.

  9. #29
    The Patient Skyepic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dragonair109 View Post
    I hope we get a different*moonkin*form though. Like a glyph, like Shadow Priests have.
    [Glyph of Moonkin Form]: Now with more feathers
    [Glyph of Moonkin Form]: Your Moonkin form now shapeshifts you into Aquatic form. You are now able dps as a mutant seal.

    Pick One!
    Last edited by Skyepic; 2012-03-08 at 05:49 PM.

  10. #30
    Anyone really annoyed that we're losing the 8% spell dmg taken? *This leaves moonkin at bringing 2 raid buffs, which seems to be a lot less than a bunch of other classes/specs.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by 0wn3d View Post
    Anyone really annoyed that we're losing the 8% spell dmg taken? *This leaves moonkin at bringing 2 raid buffs, which seems to be a lot less than a bunch of other classes/specs.
    Why do posts keep having random "*"s in them. But yeah - I agree. Blizzard have to give rogues and warlocks something special though, because they're the least played classes.
    loljk

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Kekkeri View Post
    Why do posts keep having random "*"s in them. But yeah - I agree. Blizzard have to give rogues and warlocks something special though, because they're the least played classes.
    Tbh i hate that, not the fact that we lose it (although we should keep it) but rogue and warlock the two least played classes and looking at every other buff in the list nothing else is 2 class only.

    They should give it to mage (pure casters bring 8%, hybrid bring 5% haste) or they should remove 12% armour debuff from non feral specs and give moonkins 8% debuff.
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  13. #33
    We have more rogues and Warlocks on our ro(a)ster than most other classes, but i agree, only two classes bringing a rather important debuff like 8% spelldamage is pretty limiting.

    Mages only bring 2 buffs, but also Time Warp, but Shadow Priests only give Spell Haste and Fortitude, so they could get another one, though i'd still like to see E&M back. Or maybe tie it to Insect Swarm in the same way it currently works for Affliction.

  14. #34
    Seriously between buffs and debuffs, Arms and Fury warriors have 6, rogues have 5, locks have 4, while most of the rest have 2-3 (some other melee with 4)

    Leaving only 2 classes to bring the 8% magic damage taken debuff is also going to be rather limiting, especially in 10 man raiding. Maybe its just an oversight that'll be corrected later (one can hope)

    Both my boomkin and my Unholy DK are going to miss that debuff (but at least unholy is getting the other physical buffs/debuffs - boomchicken isn't getting anything else in place of E&M)

  15. #35
    The Patient Skyepic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keiyra View Post
    Seriously between buffs and debuffs, Arms and Fury warriors have 6, rogues have 5, locks have 4, while most of the rest have 2-3 (some other melee with 4)

    Leaving only 2 classes to bring the 8% magic damage taken debuff is also going to be rather limiting, especially in 10 man raiding. Maybe its just an oversight that'll be corrected later (one can hope)

    Both my boomkin and my Unholy DK are going to miss that debuff (but at least unholy is getting the other physical buffs/debuffs - boomchicken isn't getting anything else in place of E&M)
    Have to take into consideration that a single warrior won't be able to actively supply all of those buffs at once. but yes the versatility warr's are getting with buffs seems a bit absurd compared to other classes. Dropping 8% spell damage from moonkins is an awful idea to say the least and i'm really hoping they put it back in. or it's a typo/overlooked

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    We have more rogues and Warlocks on our ro(a)ster than most other classes, but i agree, only two classes bringing a rather important debuff like 8% spelldamage is pretty limiting.

    Mages only bring 2 buffs, but also Time Warp, but Shadow Priests only give Spell Haste and Fortitude, so they could get another one, though i'd still like to see E&M back. Or maybe tie it to Insect Swarm in the same way it currently works for Affliction.
    Hunters will still probably bring it with a pet as well, but yeah, moonkins will be extremely expendable in terms of buff.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Pokty View Post
    Hunters will still probably bring it with a pet as well, but yeah, moonkins will be extremely expendable in terms of buff.
    Doubtful. Right now only 3 specs out of 33 in MoP bring the 5% spell haste, and Balance druid is one of those. So they won't be expendable...unless of course your raid already has a shadow priest or an ele shaman

  18. #38
    Brez + 5% Spell haste makes Moonkin anything but expendable.*

  19. #39
    The Patient Skyepic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prag View Post
    Brez + 5% Spell haste makes Moonkin anything but expendable.*
    Brez is trivial because ANY druid spec can do that, as well as 2 other classes now. As for spell haste, doesn't a resto shaman bring that as well? But yes i think E&M was a big thing for us and losing it certainly doesn't help us secure a raid spot. I do find it peculiar that they gave 4% physical damage to 3 different classes (4 if u count hunter pet) and 5 different and viable dps specs. Yet 8% spell damage only gets 2 classes and 2 specs (assuming their is a top dps spec for each class).

    Druid raid utility (boomkins alot more than the other specs) has slowly been getting the shaft since the end of Wrath. Going into Cata we got our Mark of the Wild merged with kings, 5% crit was taken off of moonkin aura, a nerfed innervate, we are now not the only class that can battle rez. Now we're getting Earth and Moon taken away and not the only spec with the ability to typhoon? 6 abilites in 2 expansions seems like alot. I don't remember blizzard ever commenting on druids being over powered or possessing too much utility. I was unaware "normalizing" classes meant "take everything away from druids until they are no longer unique in anyway"

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Skyepic View Post
    As for spell haste, doesn't a resto shaman bring that as well?
    Not in MoP, only balance druid, elemental shaman and shadow priest currently bring 5% spell haste, 3 out of 33 specs.

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