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  1. #41
    Stood in the Fire
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    435
    I made a post on the EU forums as feedback/ a discussion point for how balance druids will be played in pandaria and what I think of it. I'll place the link below, if you're on US and want to reply to it just quote a part of it to this thread

    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...03558?page=1#0

  2. #42
    Ok.. I recieved beta and the first thing about UI I liked, is the list check of raid buffs. However, I'm missing our 5% spell haste buff from Moonkin Aura. WTF, where did it go? I saw Mind Quickening from Spriest, but no Moonkin Aura?

    Sums with our missing list of skills:
    - Insect Swarm: Dot/25% dmg debuff (as suggested for MoP)
    - Earth and Moon: 8% spell damage debuff
    - Balance dps major glyphs
    and now
    - Moonkin Aura: 5% spell haste raid buff

    Blizz, f#$% Balance Druids every expansion.

  3. #43
    Have you considered that this might simply be a bug in the current build, and not intentional? Especially since the tooltip for Moonkin Form still mentions it.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaelluss View Post
    Ok.. I recieved beta and the first thing about UI I liked, is the list check of raid buffs. However, I'm missing our 5% spell haste buff from Moonkin Aura. WTF, where did it go? I saw Mind Quickening from Spriest, but no Moonkin Aura?

    Sums with our missing list of skills:
    - Insect Swarm: Dot/25% dmg debuff (as suggested for MoP)
    - Earth and Moon: 8% spell damage debuff
    - Balance dps major glyphs
    and now
    - Moonkin Aura: 5% spell haste raid buff

    Blizz, f#$% Balance Druids every expansion.
    There are no dps glyphs anymore.

    Mind Quickening always replaces Moonkin Aura for some reason. It's not gone.

  5. #45
    Stood in the Fire
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    468
    I've been wondering the same as Kaelluss. For example when I'm on my Rogue I'm supposed to bring the 10% attack speed buff, but I cannot see myself wearing the aura/buff and the same goes for my Balance Druid. Could it simply be that passive auras wont count if you're solo?
    Ascendance # 8 25 man
    Stabb

  6. #46
    Yes, possibly a bug but how they bugged something that was already working and had no change since WotLK, as far as I know. SPriest Haste was introduced on Cataclysm, but Moonkin Aura came before. Also, it's not being replaced by someone else's because even solo there's no change on haste ratings and percentage when on or out of Moonking/Astral Form. I'm currently 23.xx% haste Moonkin or not, on beta.

    ---------- Post added 2012-04-22 at 12:12 AM ----------

    IS may be a bug, but there's no reference for that anywhere, so possibly removed. Earth and Moon gone forever and they made it exclusive to Warlock's Curse of Elements and Rogues (WTF? - possibly something within Assassination spec).

    I think even DK Unholy's Ebon Plague is out of.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/4574894

    According to this list, 8% spell damage taken debuff is the most exclusive one, shared only to Warlocks and Rogues. Should add Balance druids as it has been so far. We should pressure them on druids beta forums, cuz it's a lame simply remove that without any reason.

    Also, E&M was good for everyone's AoEing once it was applied by mushrooms detonation. Despise that, on Cata only AFF Locks where capable of spreading that debuff via Jinx:Curse of Elements.

    ---------- Post added 2012-04-22 at 12:40 AM ----------

    Another thing to add to the list is our Master Shapeshifter 4% damage done. Sums with the 8% from Earth and Moon we already lost 12% damage done. Without the 25% Insect Swarm we just ended up losing much more then gaining, in matters of flat % damage done kept by buffs/debuffs.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaelluss View Post
    Yes, possibly a bug but how they bugged something that was already working and had no change since WotLK, as far as I know. SPriest Haste was introduced on Cataclysm, but Moonkin Aura came before. Also, it's not being replaced by someone else's because even solo there's no change on haste ratings and percentage when on or out of Moonking/Astral Form. I'm currently 23.xx% haste Moonkin or not, on beta.
    Software has a way of breaking in unexpected places when you change things. It wouldn't be that surprising.

    IS on the other hand was almost certainly removed on purpose, as the spell itself was removed from the game data.
    There is no 8% spelldamage debuff anymore, the Rogue and Warlock debuff is 5%.

    Why should they keep Master Shapeshifter? They can just increase the damage of all spells by 4%, no need for an extra buff.
    Also, IS was rolled into the base spells. If we were to get it now, we'd do way to much damage.

  8. #48
    Can any1 please tell me why i dont have IS on my moonkin in beta? I can take that talent from three but i dont have IS, thats kinda strange.
    Last edited by markos82; 2012-04-22 at 12:08 PM.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by markos82 View Post
    Can any1 please tell me why i dont have IS on my moonkin in beta? I can take that talent from three but i dont have IS, thats kinda strange.
    Read above. Insect Swarm is not in the game data anymore. Also Faerie Swarm = Improved Faerie Fire not IS

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Juvencus View Post
    Read above. Insect Swarm is not in the game data anymore. Also Faerie Swarm = Improved Faerie Fire not IS
    Oh yeah, sorry i was tired when i read the talents so i probably read wrong... That kinda sux, now we have only one dot ( well 2 if u place SF before u enter lunar and get MF )...

    But im 100% sure I read something about IS increasing dmg done by certain % when applied

  11. #51
    Mechagnome
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    558
    Quote Originally Posted by markos82 View Post
    Oh yeah, sorry i was tired when i read the talents so i probably read wrong... That kinda sux, now we have only one dot ( well 2 if u place SF before u enter lunar and get MF )...

    But im 100% sure I read something about IS increasing dmg done by certain % when applied
    The nukes, at least, was buffed instead to do 30% more damage then now.
    Moo, are you happy now?

  12. #52
    I've read all over the buffs and debuffs from all classes on the list provided by Ghostcrawler and posted on MMO Champion.

    The Magic Vulnerability is a debuff that all Warlocks will apply with Curse of Elements and Rogues with.. IDK what spell. With that makes an ammount of 2 classes with 6 specs in total that can apply the same debuff. Compared to other debuffs, is one that is shared with just a few classes, removing Balance Druids from the table. Others are shared by 7, 9 or more classes, including the specs of those. I just don't get it why remove it from Balance Druids. It buffs all casters: Warlocks, Mages, Elemental Shamans, Balance Druids; the magic shots from Survival Hunters, the nature poisons of Rogues and the diseases of a Death Knight. Probably it buffs the damage of Paladins holy attacks and also all Healers that rely on casting damage spell to heal (like Attonement) or restore some mana (like Resto Shamans). It's a very good buff but with the restriction to 2 classes makes every group require one of them in the composition to check all raid buffs and debuffs. Compared to Physical Vulnerability (one shared by 5 different options - among class and their specs), the Magic Vulnerability is broader and affects much more the entire group.

    I'm just curious however, why the removal. It's okay to down it to 5%, but it was removed from Boomkins, and I believe Unholy DKs with no explaining. Simply gone.

    The good about Boomkins with that debuff was that we could spread it with Mushroom detonation, buffing others AoE, with the proper control. As alternative only an Affliction Warlock's Jinx:Curse of Elements could and if I recall it's possibly an Unholy DK spread Ebon Plague (skill spelling?) via Pestilence (if it does spread tha disease), currently on the Live content.

    Abut Master Shapeshifter, is now a glyph that reduces shifhting cost by 90%. But let be honest, with the changes on talents and druid general skills, cleaning the appeal of hybridism being benefical to all roles, there are few reasons to switch form in PvE content with the current build. And personally I don't feel that 90 tier talent much attractive, with the 6 mins CD it has. That means boomies will stay boomies all the time, bears will be bears, cat will be cats. Healers will be humanoids or treants if they choose to be that. But switching boomy to cat (with the set of more or less 5 skills it has in general skills) is no sense.
    Last edited by Kaelluss; 2012-04-22 at 09:29 PM.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by chinobar View Post
    The nukes, at least, was buffed instead to do 30% more damage then now.
    But we still lose some amazing dmg filler ( if u can say that ). If they dont change their decision and remove IS ( as it is right now ) i would be really sad.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaelluss View Post
    The good about Boomkins with that debuff was that we could spread it with Mushroom detonation, buffing others AoE, with the proper control. As alternative only an Affliction Warlock's Jinx:Curse of Elements could and if I recall it's possibly an Unholy DK spread Ebon Plague (skill spelling?) via Pestilence (if it does spread tha disease), currently on the Live content.
    Or an Assassination rogue could spread it by FoKking around. Destro and Demo locks are the only ones that have the debuff but no way of spreading it to groups.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Or an Assassination rogue could spread it by FoKking around. Destro and Demo locks are the only ones that have the debuff but no way of spreading it to groups.
    If the debuff is spreadable by Fan of Knives, if it's a poison effect, which after checking Blizzard's MoP page, there's no reference for the Magic Vulnerability debuff on all Rogue's specs and skills.

  16. #56
    Seems like Balance has lost a ton of damage. Has there been any discussion from the developers on this?

  17. #57
    Not so far. From my testings we lost IS dot and anysort of buff (a dps loss), lost 4% from Master Shapeshifter, 8% from Earth and Moon debuff, 2% from Earth and Moon talent, lowered damage on Mushrooms.

    Wrath, Starfire and Starsurge is hitting the same stuff on live. The Eclipse has increased a little, more or less % with my current rating. We lost relic and the stats wasn't redistributed yet, so I lost like 1% haste on Beta. Marks doesn't provide stamina anymore. Mana pool is 100k for everyone (healers are getting OOM again on long fights like the last one from the only dungeon so far).

    We gained hurricane arcane damage during Lunar. Refreshed starfall on Lunars. Finally a good 3mins CD dps with Celestial Alignment which gives a brief moment of an interesting rotation to keep Sunfire and Moonfire dots rolling. Incarnation or FoN is still a doubt of each between them, but Soul of the Forest has been my choice (while FoN is bugged and I have it without the talent - I think it should be Druid's general skill and replace with something else). SOTF is good cuz it reminds me of Tier 12 4p bonus. It shortens the time between eclipses with the 20 gain. Also all other skills that generate energy are generating more now, so basically with SOTF by the time you reach the next eclipse, the dot from previous one is about to end up. Also, I liked how Wrath refreshes Sunfire on Solar and Starfire refreshes Moonfire on Lunar, besides I read somewhere that this dot is ticking less now (to be confirmed).

    But as said above, we lost a lot of things compared to the major gain of Celestial Alignment.

  18. #58
    In PvP, I'm interested to see how losing our one dot changes our game. It's currently nigh-on impossible to chain cast at any point, so our dots are our strong point.
    loljk

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaelluss View Post
    If the debuff is spreadable by Fan of Knives, if it's a poison effect, which after checking Blizzard's MoP page, there's no reference for the Magic Vulnerability debuff on all Rogue's specs and skills.
    Because that calc is way outdated already. It works the same as currently on live, everything you poison takes 5% more magic damage.

    Not to mention that you were talking about live there.

  20. #60
    I've done some trial dps tests and it appears, at least on Beta that we are performing significantly less in terms of dps. Completely subjective at the moment but I'm curious on others thoughts and or findings.

    Background Info
    Live: 406 equipped ilvl
    Beta: 408 equipped ilvl

    Dummy damage (Same buffs, Mark, and food)
    On Live: "37-40k DPS Average"
    On Beta: 20-26K (8,715,915 54.88% 24454.3 26083.4 334.2 97.7%)

    - It also appears that MK form lost its 5% haste buff (Please correct me if I'm wrong but I also don't see it displayed in the tool tip.)

    - PVP at this point "feels" Better and more evenly matched compared to Live.

    - Now with all of this im still getting used to the new rotations and cooldowns, but a 10k difference stands out to me as something is currently "off"

    - Celestial Cooldown is nice, still looking into the proper timings to use it.

    Thank you! I would love to hear others thoughts.

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