[MoP Balance] MoP Balance Discussion Thread

[TastyMoonkin]

While I agree with waiting until 90 for serious discussion. Blizz did say that the 85 numbers should be relatively close at 85 from cata to mop. while I could say that a 3-5k dps discrepancy would be acceptable in my eyes due to lack of exp with the new rotation, 10k just seems a bit off at the moment. Like I said above I'm curious of others findings.

Thanks again.

[Sabnock]

But as said above, we lost a lot of things compared to the major gain of Celestial Alignment.

What bothering me is the base design.
We need a burst dps cd, ok, so instead giving one to use, they have create this horror of Incarnation you have to use at 100 lunar and pop up Celestial Alignment to have what all classes by using 1 cd, not two of 3min cd each.
Is it too difficult to have a Celestial Alignment that works for 28 sec of duration, with a small bonus of 5-10% damage, instead of introducing another clunky mechanic? We still haven't an execution mechanic, a defensive cd, an effective silence and it's impossible that they'll introduce something in a flat and useful way...I don't really understand how they work.

[Sunfyre]

I've done some trial dps tests and it appears, at least on Beta that we are performing significantly less in terms of dps. Completely subjective at the moment but I'm curious on others thoughts and or findings.

Background Info
Live: 406 equipped ilvl
Beta: 408 equipped ilvl

Dummy damage (Same buffs, Mark, and food)
On Live: "37-40k DPS Average"
On Beta: 20-26K (8,715,915 54.88% 24454.3 26083.4 334.2 97.7%)

- It also appears that MK form lost its 5% haste buff (Please correct me if I'm wrong but I also don't see it displayed in the tool tip.)

- PVP at this point "feels" Better and more evenly matched compared to Live.

- Now with all of this im still getting used to the new rotations and cooldowns, but a 10k difference stands out to me as something is currently "off"

- Celestial Cooldown is nice, still looking into the proper timings to use it.

Thank you! I would love to hear others thoughts.

Moonkin Aura gives the 5% haste. Read the AURA tooltip, not the form tooltip.

If you're doing 20-26k DPS on dummies on beta you're doing something wrong. I have a 392 ilvl and I'm doing 30k. Higher then live.

Which level 60 talent are you using? You should be using Soul of the Forest. Incarnation is a) bad and b) not implemented.

Celestial Alignment should be popped ideally when you're going from Lunar to Solar, since Starfire will be giving you the most bang for your buck. You can weave in a Wrath or Starsurge to extend the DoT duration of Sunfire.

[Xyan]

On the discussion of the debuff, don't hunters still have 2 pets (dragonhawk and wind serpent) that provide the debuff too? Or was this removed in MoP as well?

[TastyMoonkin]

OK, I may or may not be onto something here.
Currently on live I have: 23.33% Haste non buffed out of Moonkin form. 2987 Total Haste with +5% from moonkin form on live 28.33%

On Beta it Shows as 13.61% at 3067 haste. The moonkin aura is not applying to me at all. I tested with both Glyph of stars and standard moonkin form.

I'm assuming some kind of bug within beta but was curious if anyone else had noticed this at all ? a 10%+ haste discrepancy would indeed explain my lower then normal DPS findings atm.

I have img links but unable to post them yet. PM if interested.

[AutomaticBadger]

Been looking at Druids and would be nice to ROFL stomp my friend at his own class so was thinking of a Druid. How is Balance going in Mists? Is it broken? Pretty much unchanged?

Also I was thinking, and I know this is ahead of myself, but is there and addon that had a tracking Lunar bar with the total you have, the amount of bar gained my Wrath/Starfire and Starsurge? Could you even design that? Would probably help with rotation management since you could better predict the movement of the gain/loss.

[Deleted]

Been looking at Druids and would be nice to ROFL stomp my friend at his own class so was thinking of a Druid. How is Balance going in Mists? Is it broken? Pretty much unchanged?

Also I was thinking, and I know this is ahead of myself, but is there and addon that had a tracking Lunar bar with the total you have, the amount of bar gained my Wrath/Starfire and Starsurge? Could you even design that? Would probably help with rotation management since you could better predict the movement of the gain/loss.

well atm nothing is balanced, the damage numbers are broken and will be fixed at the end. Time will say. For your addon just go to www.curse.com and go to druids. Every addon in existence you can find there. =)

[Daetur]

At the moment, pretty much everything I've played in Beta seems kind of borked, since they haven't gotten to the point where we're testing at 90 and they can tweak spell values and see actual endgame rotations in an endgame setting.

Honestly, I'd say try to wait it out a little longer. Even if someone can really talk to you in depth about the current state of a class or spec, chances are good that the numbers/abilities/feel will change significantly as we get farther into beta.

[huth]

Could it be that you're not level 85 anymore? Ratings lose in value pretty damn fast. So fast, in fact, that you actually lose damage if you have high-end Cata gear.

Moonkin Aura gives the 5% haste. Read the AURA tooltip, not the form tooltip.

Shifting to 'kin does not currently activate the aura. I'd chalk that up to a bug though, since it very clearly states in the form tooltip that it should.

[TastyMoonkin]

Could it be that you're not level 85 anymore? Ratings lose in value pretty damn fast. So fast, in fact, that you actually lose damage if you have high-end Cata gear.


Shifting to 'kin does not currently activate the aura. I'd chalk that up to a bug though, since it very clearly states in the form tooltip that it should.

Yeah did some searching around, and that's what it is. I have to say its an odd feeling getting weaker the higher level you get. Logic just makes you expect the opposite.

Thanks for the info all

[Structures]

i think he's talking about Balance spec guys...

[huth]

At least check if you're on the last page of the thread before posting a reply.

[Underskilled]

A little disappointed. Has Blizzard mentioned at ALL about balance druids eclipse, and being able to start in an eclipse before combat? I really don't see why they haven't given us a way to manipulate our eclipse bar before a boss fight, outside of nuking critters.

The cooldowns seem interesting, going godzilla moonkin is pretty fun, it's just annoying we need to cast for ~10 seconds into combat before we can start pumping out viable dps, it's almost like playing a rogue, but starting the fight with zero energy...

[TastyMoonkin]

A little disappointed. Has Blizzard mentioned at ALL about balance druids eclipse, and being able to start in an eclipse before combat? I really don't see why they haven't given us a way to manipulate our eclipse bar before a boss fight, outside of nuking critters.

The cooldowns seem interesting, going godzilla moonkin is pretty fun, it's just annoying we need to cast for ~10 seconds into combat before we can start pumping out viable dps, it's almost like playing a rogue, but starting the fight with zero energy...

Celestial Alignment would allow you do do this if you wanted too.

[Sunfyre]

A little disappointed. Has Blizzard mentioned at ALL about balance druids eclipse, and being able to start in an eclipse before combat? I really don't see why they haven't given us a way to manipulate our eclipse bar before a boss fight, outside of nuking critters.

The cooldowns seem interesting, going godzilla moonkin is pretty fun, it's just annoying we need to cast for ~10 seconds into combat before we can start pumping out viable dps, it's almost like playing a rogue, but starting the fight with zero energy...

You don't want to start in an Eclipse. You want to start one cast prior.

---------- Post added 2012-04-24 at 03:11 PM ----------

Could it be that you're not level 85 anymore? Ratings lose in value pretty damn fast. So fast, in fact, that you actually lose damage if you have high-end Cata gear.


Shifting to 'kin does not currently activate the aura. I'd chalk that up to a bug though, since it very clearly states in the form tooltip that it should.

It was applying the aura, they must have broken it in a recen beta build.

[Deleted]

I still think we should get a channeled ability that would allow us to get eclipse energy out of combat, without having to kill critters.

And no, HotW doesn't count.

[huth]

It was applying the aura, they must have broken it in a recen beta build.

Yeah, i know. I was kinda surprised when i went to look and it didn't trigger, but it's still in Moonkin Forms tooltip and we'd have very little in the buff department otherwise, so i doubt it was on purpose. Probably related to the bug in the previous build where it wouldn't correctly cancel upon leaving form.

[Underskilled]

You don't want to start in an Eclipse. You want to start one cast prior.

I suppose that's true now with the change to NG, but it still seems silly we have very little control over our eclipse bar before fights, I wouldn't mind some out of combat channel spell that at least lets us build eclipse meter without needing critters to blast.

[Sunfyre]

I suppose that's true now with the change to NG, but it still seems silly we have very little control over our eclipse bar before fights, I wouldn't mind some out of combat channel spell that at least lets us build eclipse meter without needing critters to blast.

Not just nature's grace, you want to put up the opposite DoT before you get in Eclipse, since they both stack. Celestial Focus really was put in to allow us to start in an Eclipse, it's a great opener. Not sure why you're so against it.

[Underskilled]

Not just nature's grace, you want to put up the opposite DoT before you get in Eclipse, since they both stack. Celestial Focus really was put in to allow us to start in an Eclipse, it's a great opener. Not sure why you're so against it.

Heh, I suppose that's true as well. It does seem a little odd to me this fix (starting with the strength of an eclipse) is roped into a cooldown, rather than just a way to manipulate your eclipse, but a fix is a fix.