[MoP Balance] MoP Balance Discussion Thread

[Sicc]

Also do you people believe it would be a viable option to macro Sun+Moonfire in a macro for both PvE and PvP?

In PvP it doesn't seem to have a problem as you will keep both DoTs up and also using Lunar Shower. But in PvE you will want to have the eclipsed one second to it will benefit from the 1 stack of Lunar Shower going back to 2 buttons again :P

If we will end up with 2 of them, I will just use them as I did with Insect Swarm. 2 buttons for 2 dots. What if I want to spam one of them because I'm in an Eclipse? I only macro spells together if I never have to use them seperately.

Btw thanks for testing things and reporting here. I'm not in the beta and can olny make theories.

[huth]

You have to press the button twice anyway. I don't see the point of macroing them together.

[kendro1200]

I presume that Moonfire/Sunfire extensions via crits won't override the snapshot of Haste and Eclipse modifier it took when you originally cast it. Would be silly otherwise.

When they have spells extended and aren't intended to be extended indefinitely they don't have the damage of the dot recalculated when the extension is made. (At least that is what I was able to take away when the CMs were responding to warlock questions over the topic yesterday) I don't think they intend for us to be able to roll a single moonfire/sunfire forever with this change to crit extending duration, so I think it's unlikely that it'll recalculate.

[tinkabela]

just wanted to post: just popped on to PTR to test out some things, and saw that the new celestial alignment does not stack with incarnation. you can use them both together at the same time, but although using celestial alignment gives your spells the eclipse buff, it appears to not actually give YOU the eclipse buff, meaning the incarnation buff does nothing because it only gives bonus damage when eclipse is active on YOU. edit: celestial alignment also removes any current eclipse buffs.

not sure if thats a bug, or intended. could be intended, otherwise you would be seeing some mad damage being thrown out, e.g. moonkin form + eclipse + incarnation + celestial alignment + owl kin frenzy + nature's vigil ...would be +10% + (approx 25% mastery) + 25% + 52% + 15% + 25% =.....??

also noticed healing was double what it is now, e.g. rejuv was ticking 6.5k with only 6.5k spell power, healing touch healed ~35k

also the wild charge is awesome, it changes depending on which form you are in. moonkins get disengage, travel form gets blink, bear and cat get feral charge), caster/flight form get fly to ally.

[pakoa]

just wanted to post: just popped on to PTR to test out some things, and saw that the new celestial alignment does not stack with incarnation. you can use them both together at the same time, but although using celestial alignment gives your spells the eclipse buff, it appears to not actually give YOU the eclipse buff, meaning the incarnation buff does nothing because it only gives bonus damage when eclipse is active on YOU. edit: celestial alignment also removes any current eclipse buffs.

not sure if thats a bug, or intended. could be intended, otherwise you would be seeing some mad damage being thrown out, e.g. moonkin form + eclipse + incarnation + celestial alignment + owl kin frenzy + nature's vigil ...would be +10% + (approx 25% mastery) + 25% + 52% + 15% + 25% =.....??

also noticed healing was double what it is now, e.g. rejuv was ticking 6.5k with only 6.5k spell power, healing touch healed ~35k

also the wild charge is awesome, it changes depending on which form you are in. moonkins get disengage, travel form gets blink, bear and cat get feral charge), caster/flight form get fly to ally.

It's been like that since they were both implemented.

[Krit]

I tried for a while to get on PTR to test out the new talents and spells and see how this would translate to current gear. Unfortunately, the client wasvery unstable and kept crashing. Does anyone have any numbers on what kind of damage we will be doing in say normal t13 4p and a couple heroic peices?

[Flandersson]

I tried for a while to get on PTR to test out the new talents and spells and see how this would translate to current gear. Unfortunately, the client wasvery unstable and kept crashing. Does anyone have any numbers on what kind of damage we will be doing in say normal t13 4p and a couple heroic peices?

Apparently Starfox did a simulation of the latest build with full BIS T13H and DTR and it showed 63,7k. But I dont really know how the dot management was lined up and how the cooldowns where used exactly since I read the sim this morning which isnt the best time for me to even attempt to get stuff around my head

[kendro1200]

Apparently Starfox did a simulation of the latest build with full BIS T13H and DTR and it showed 63,7k. But I dont really know how the dot management was lined up and how the cooldowns where used exactly since I read the sim this morning which isnt the best time for me to even attempt to get stuff around my head

He said that he did it in such a fashion that both spells (sunfire/moonfire) weren't available at the same time (just how the thing is built atm), so I imagine the numbers he pulled are a rough estimation of what to expect until simcraft can get adapted to the new build. The numbers may change with that adjustment, they may not.

[Kilma]

I tried for a while to get on PTR to test out the new talents and spells and see how this would translate to current gear. Unfortunately, the client wasvery unstable and kept crashing. Does anyone have any numbers on what kind of damage we will be doing in say normal t13 4p and a couple heroic peices?

I don't think my rotation was perfect, but I was pulling 40k easy (no cds) with legendary and Full T13 heroic with normal rings, spine trinket and 391 mastery trinket @ 85. I noticed that the mastery trinket from firelands was actually pretty strong. It seems we benefit more from mastery in MoP currently. (Percentage of mastery is higher than on live)

I'd like to think it gives about a 6k-10k dps increase over live with the changes with no cds. Movement still a pain, but the MoP Lunar Shower helps with that greatly over live.

On MoP Beta, Moonfire and Sunfire are separate dots (Think of sunfire now as insect swarm) thought each dot benefits from their eclipse. The idea here to maximize dps is to try to maintain each Buffed dot as long as possible. (Don't reapply both when you hit a new eclipse) If you haven't been doing this you will see a decent dps increase just on dummies alone. This change makes Boomkins feel like as they are on live, but now we have DPS CDs.

Celestial Alightment as a dps cd is to get both Sunfire and Moonfire DoTs running in ONE global are than two globals for each Sunfire and Moonfire Cast. AWESOME for multidotting. (Atleast 4-5 fights in MoP that are Multidot at some point or in all of the fight)

Incarnation is for burst damage - think Ragnaros HM Phase 3 Burn to get to 4th phase with one boulder.

Apparently Starfox did a simulation of the latest build with full BIS T13H and DTR and it showed 63,7k.

Is there a link available or is this through the grape vine? and I wonder if this is lvl 90 or lvl 85.

[Venteus]

Those of you on the PTR, are the Glyph of Stars and Glyph of the Moonbeast available? Or is that for higher (MOP) levels of inscription?

[Sabnock]

Those of you on the PTR, are the Glyph of Stars and Glyph of the Moonbeast available? Or is that for higher (MOP) levels of inscription?

Yes, there is an NPC (a giant tauren in a tuxedo) near Garrosh Hold that sell every glyph except the new one Glyph of the cheetah (or something like that).

[Venteus]

Oh, then what are inscriptionists getting come MoP? I figured some of the new glyphs would be reserved for higher level abilities?

[Kilma]

This is completely off-topic but the sake for answering a quick question. Inscriptionists are able to make and sell shoulder enchants on AH. They don't want to make glyphs mandatory, they want it to be a choice.

On topic - Moonkins are in a good place and shouldn't change much imo

[Geekissexy]

On the MoP beta my druid has full heroic T13, heroic trinkets, and I am not using the legendary. I'm using the heroic dagger off DW and the OH from Ultraxion.

I am doing about 43-45k DPS. How in the hell is this guy getting over 60k unless he's fully buffed and has heroism?

Perhaps I should eat, use a flask, and pop a volcanic pot or something.

[GrifCannon]

Oh, then what are inscriptionists getting come MoP? I figured some of the new glyphs would be reserved for higher level abilities?

The NPC he referred to is for beta only, so people don't have to rely on scribes to test the new glyphs

[Zestier]

I have been testing a lot on the PTR and I am full BIS other than having my heroic neck off Domo, and I am pulling over 63K, before the changes with the dots and crits and all that jazz I was bursting almost to 100k dps and steadily being around 70k, so I would say 50k is where somewhat BIS people should be at for sure unless you are doing something way wrong.

[kachino]

I have been testing a lot on the PTR and I am full BIS other than having my heroic neck off Domo, and I am pulling over 63K, before the changes with the dots and crits and all that jazz I was bursting almost to 100k dps and steadily being around 70k, so I would say 50k is where somewhat BIS people should be at for sure unless you are doing something way wrong.

Blue or Epic BiS?

[Zestier]

Blue or Epic BiS?

BiS as full DS heroic/legindary, what else would I mean by full BIS

[kachino]

thought you mean lvl 90 BiS

[xtramuscle]

I have been on beta, but haven't managed to keep it up to date. Anyone on there can answer another question for me?
I've been playing around with glyph of stars (dpsing without being in moonkin form) but still with its appropriate buffs etc.
However, when I use things like iron boot flask, kalythas haunted locket etc, they transform me, but I lose my moonkin aura and such. I've made a ticket about this, and was wondering if its been fixed in any of the later builds, or will it just not be usable on moonkins?