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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by llandrywyn View Post
    If you actually read the interview, it was stated that its current implementation is LFR only, but they are looking to expanding it if it proves successful.
    They mean expanding it into LFD, not into the standard raids.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by llandrywyn View Post
    If you actually read the interview, it was stated that its current implementation is LFR only, but they are looking to expanding it if it proves successful.
    to LFG maybe?... they won't get rid of Master looters and they enjoy the randomness of loot.

  3. #43
    Dreadlord meliancill's Avatar
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    anyone taking a look at the new mastery?

    Nature's Guardian: Mastery

    80

    Increases armor by 5.2%. Each point of mastery increase by additional 0.65%.

    anyone have any idea how good / bad this will be compared to the mastery in cata?

  4. #44
    For now, until we know the full details about combat ratings at level 90, it doesn't look too good. http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post15778523

  5. #45
    Anyone make a build with talents ??

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by davidrm15 View Post
    Anyone make a build with talents ??
    The whole point in the new talent system is that there wont be a standard build as there is now, but you will be able to take pretty much whatever you want, and change it during a raid to fit every boss.

  7. #47
    Scarab Lord Stanton Biston's Avatar
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    I'm seriously confused by the new mastery. Armor has a cap, doesn't it? Doesn't this mean there will be a hard cap for mastery that gets progressively smaller with each tier?
    Quote Originally Posted by Callace View Post
    Considering you just linked a graph with no data plotted on it as factual evidence, I think Stanton can infer whatever the hell he wants.
    Extraordinary Claims Require Extraordinary Evidence - Sometimes I abbreviate this ECREE

  8. #48
    Armor had a hard-cap at 75% DR. The hard-cap made no sense because armor's DR is based on an asymptotic formula. We don't know if the cap will still be around in MoP, but I wouldn't worry about it. If it becomes a problem that affects tank balance, Blizzard will fix it. Cataclysm has shown that Blizzard has detected DR balance issues for bears before each content patch and made adjustments for the upcoming tier before the patch is released.

    Of course their testing wasn't always complete and that's why they balanced around the "bugbear" for 4.0.3 while the "normalbear" were underpowered...

  9. #49
    Am I the only one really disliking the change to SD? I understand it's a way to make us more like DKs in that we have to choose when to mitigate actively. But, it feels clunky and with the high rage costs, doesn't leave much room for anything else. It's not like the blood shield. If they wanted to do that, they'd simply make mangle proc a stacking absorb, so I'm not really understanding the point.. :-(

  10. #50
    The point is the previous implementation was deemed to be overpowered. In a way, it was, as an on-demand massive EH boost with an ~80% uptime.
    Of course the funny thing is the new version is actually more powerful if you consider TDR and TTL.

  11. #51
    Any good places to see the projected rotation/priorities? I'm assuming something like SD>Mangle>Lacerate>FF does thrash go into the single target still for the dot? And with SD being such high rage costs and something that we should have high uptime on.. does that drop Maul completely off the charts since we'll be needing to pool for SD uptime?

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Fudge View Post
    Any good places to see the projected rotation/priorities? I'm assuming something like SD>Mangle>Lacerate>FF does thrash go into the single target still for the dot? And with SD being such high rage costs and something that we should have high uptime on.. does that drop Maul completely off the charts since we'll be needing to pool for SD uptime?
    Well, things has changed many times since beta. I update on twitter and theincbear.com whenever I have something new that affects our rotation or stat priorities. SD isn't a priority, it's just something you press when you have the rage for it. Maul is not pressed unless you need the threat/DPS for some reason. Otherwise our priority is simply Mangle > Thrash > Lacerate

  13. #53
    Mangle > Thrash > Lacerate > Swipe
    Fixed :P 10char

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by tangedyn View Post
    Well, things has changed many times since beta. I update on twitter and theincbear.com whenever I have something new that affects our rotation or stat priorities. SD isn't a priority, it's just something you press when you have the rage for it. Maul is not pressed unless you need the threat/DPS for some reason. Otherwise our priority is simply Mangle > Thrash > Lacerate
    Perhaps as an opening, Mangle > Thrash > Lacerate would work, however it is misleading in a sense considering what your goal is.

    In terms of damage/threat, the AP coefficient and base damage of Lacerate blows Thrash out of the water right now on beta (although the Thrash bleed is stronger/faster than Lacerate, making up that difference over time). Once a bleed is present on the target, Swipe overtakes Thrash application damage by a large margin. If the rotation goal is damage, Thrash drops in priority if it is not for Weakened Blows/bleed DoT maintenance (same with FFF's sunder debuff). Since the Thrash bleed DoT lasts 16 seconds and Weakened Blows lasts 30 seconds, refreshing Thrash every 16 seconds would optimize damage output and survivability.

    Mangle > Thrash (maintenance every 16 seconds) > Lacerate > Swipe > Thrash (because all other buttons disappeared from my bars!) is what I think you meant to say. I left FFF out of there since I can't remember the damage coefficient, beta keeps crashing on me non-stop. Fairly certain the damage won't beat Swipe with bleeds on the target at any point, so FFF is a maintenance item once more (or a ranged silence if glyphed).
    *Since I'm tired of reposting the link:* EH vs TTL and Hybrid Tax

  15. #55
    Sorry, forgot Swipe is now free. Thrash impact is ~11% stronger than unbuffed Swipe. Buffed Swipe is ~7% stronger than Thrash impact, so ya it's worth using over Thrash but not really a large margin.

    According to Arielle's comprehensive testing @ https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...BQUstdHc#gid=0, Thrash impact is doing more damage than Lacerate impact. If that is correct the priority should be:

    Mangle > Thrash (noclip) > Swipe > Thrash (clip) > Lacerate

    FFF looks like it will catch up at some point of time. It has an extremely low base but high coefficient.


    Of course, all these mean that you may be able to make a macro:
    /castsequence reset=5.5 Mangle, Swipe, Thrash, Swipe

    and do pretty well. Doesn't handle the Mangle CD resets, but if you are lazy enough to use that macro you're lazy enough not to care about Mangle CD resets!
    Last edited by tangedyn; 2012-04-20 at 03:02 AM.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by tangedyn View Post
    Sorry, forgot Swipe is now free. Thrash impact is ~11% stronger than unbuffed Swipe. Buffed Swipe is ~7% stronger than Thrash impact, so ya it's worth using over Thrash but not really a large margin.

    According to Arielle's comprehensive testing @ https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...BQUstdHc#gid=0, Thrash impact is doing more damage than Lacerate impact. If that is correct the priority should be:

    Mangle > Thrash (noclip) > Swipe > Thrash (clip) > Lacerate

    FFF looks like it will catch up at some point of time. It has an extremely low base but high coefficient.


    Of course, all these mean that you may be able to make a macro:
    /castsequence reset=5.5 Mangle, Swipe, Thrash, Swipe

    and do pretty well. Doesn't handle the Mangle CD resets, but if you are lazy enough to use that macro you're lazy enough not to care about Mangle CD resets!
    If you're really hardcore lazy
    /castsequence Swipe, Thrash, Swipe
    /cast Mangle
    would pull mangle every time it was available and use the rotation when it wasn't. I pray that's not gonna be our rotation though. It's even lazier than what our current AoE rotation is....

    Also, having trouble understanding how Thrash/Swipe are ahead of lacerate ATM. Lacerate is hitting like a truck atm. (Over a few hundred hits of each) Lac easily outdamaged both Thrash and buffed swipe. Would've thought it'd be Mangle >Thrash (for dot up)> Lacerate
    Last edited by Fudge; 2012-04-20 at 04:09 AM.

  17. #57
    I don't know that anyone has mentioned it, but...Pulverize is gone. Like gone as a skill, gone from our rotation, poof. That probably should be noted.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Fudge View Post
    Also, having trouble understanding how Thrash/Swipe are ahead of lacerate ATM. Lacerate is hitting like a truck atm. (Over a few hundred hits of each) Lac easily outdamaged both Thrash and buffed swipe. Would've thought it'd be Mangle >Thrash (for dot up)> Lacerate
    Well, I've linked Arielle's testing numbers. If you have numbers that contradicts his I'd like to see it.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by tangedyn View Post
    Well, I've linked Arielle's testing numbers. If you have numbers that contradicts his I'd like to see it.


    ^ Best I can do at the moment ^.. Like I said, at the moment, Lacerate is hitting like a truck. That is probably a bug or something, but I can only go based on what I can see. Despite what tooltip is saying, it's hitting norm at around 21 and critting at 43k .. See below:

    Last edited by Fudge; 2012-04-20 at 08:24 AM.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by tangedyn View Post
    According to Arielle's comprehensive testing @ https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...BQUstdHc#gid=0, Thrash impact is doing more damage than Lacerate impact.
    Yeah, your base data is wrong, the damage of Lacerate got buffed a few iterations ago.

    Currently on beta, Thrash application is still (AP*0.172 + 1760 to 2172), but Lacerate application is (AP*0.386 + 28025). The DoT portion AP modifiers are pretty much the same (Thrash is 0.0585, Swipe is 0.0516 ), but the base damage per tick for the Thrash DoT is about 1k more than the Lacerate DoT, and Thrash DoT ticks every 2 secs versus 3 secs for Lacerate. The Thrash DoT does a hefty amount of damage by itself as well as having the 12% chance to proc a free Mangle, but it cannot beat Lacerate's damage.

    When tested on a target dummy a while ago, Lacerate was critting for the same/more than a 5pt 50 energy FB crit as guardian. More than enough reason to stay in bear form for damage.
    Last edited by exochaft; 2012-04-20 at 03:21 PM.
    *Since I'm tired of reposting the link:* EH vs TTL and Hybrid Tax

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