[MoP Bear] Guardian Druid MoP Discussion Thread

[Raugnaut]

We seem to have gotten a heady buff this latest patch- Bear Form increases the amount of crit and haste we recieve from gear by 50% (So 50% more Crit/Haste ratings?)

Can anyone see how this works? Does it add more rating, or increase the % per rating gained?

[Arielle]

We seem to have gotten a heady buff this latest patch- Bear Form increases the amount of crit and haste we recieve from gear by 50% (So 50% more Crit/Haste ratings?)

Can anyone see how this works? Does it add more rating, or increase the % per rating gained?

New build isn't downloadable yet in US.

[Elunedra]

i dont see why we need such buffs, it seems like a flaw in class design

[Raugnaut]

i dont see why we need such buffs, it seems like a flaw in class design

Blizz most likely feels that there isnt enough haste/crit for bears on gear, but enough crit/haste for ferals, so in order to get bear at the amount they want, they are buffing the amount we get by 50%.

Enhancement shamans got something similar- 50% more effects from Haste. Pitty it still only serves to increase white damage.

[Arielle]

Blizz most likely feels that there isnt enough haste/crit for bears on gear, but enough crit/haste for ferals, so in order to get bear at the amount they want, they are buffing the amount we get by 50%.

Enhancement shamans got something similar- 50% more effects from Haste. Pitty it still only serves to increase white damage.

This doesn't make sense though. Crit is currently our most valuable secondary stat. We'll be looking for Crit / Hit, Crit / Exp, or Crit / Haste pieces and reforging the lowest valued stat to Dodge.

Not to mention, our Rage generation was already OP to begin with.

[Dreyen]

Maybe they just want us to have excessive amounts of rage so we can toy with both our active mitigations at once? For sure though, my rage gen went down quite a bit while leveling to 89... ive yet to reach 90.

[Shamgar]

Made a premade 85 druid. Unsocketed, ungemmed, unreforged 378 ilevel feral gear gives 37% crit. Mangle crits 45k without vengeance. Fair and balanced.. I thought they made guardian its own spec so bears would not have insane damage anymore, not to give them more of it.

To compare, mangle does on average 3.5 times the damage of shield slam.

[aggixx]

Blizz most likely feels that there isnt enough haste/crit for bears on gear, but enough crit/haste for ferals, so in order to get bear at the amount they want, they are buffing the amount we get by 50%.

Enhancement shamans got something similar- 50% more effects from Haste. Pitty it still only serves to increase white damage.

It has nothing to do with the amount of haste/crit bears get from gear, and everything to do with the value of the stat. It's pretty obvious why they did it: To make haste more attractive stats (increase their value by 50%).

Now why exactly they'd want to do that I have no idea...

[Elunedra]

its stil wierd, also i think on sims it turned out haste was our best stat not crit, as whit haste we be able to keep SD up much better.
also dont think blizzard want us to toy around whit using both our migrations, as that just sickly OP \o/, and uptime of > 60% of SD is already OP!

[Hinalover]

its stil wierd, also i think on sims it turned out haste was our best stat not crit, as whit haste we be able to keep SD up much better.
also dont think blizzard want us to toy around whit using both our migrations, as that just sickly OP \o/, and uptime of > 60% of SD is already OP!

Before the buff, Tang was saying Dodge > Crit > Hit /Exp > Mastery > Haste. This is true until we hit 10 RPS (Rage-Per-Second). At which point the values of Crit, hit, exp and haste drop. The reasoning is that we are able to hit SD or FR every 6 seconds. Right now it's looking more like every 8-10 seconds in level 90 gear.

I haven't gotten around to updating the Guardian module of Rawr so I cannot confirm. But With this buff, I would expect Haste to be about even, if not better than Mastery.

[Elunedra]

either way bears should never reach 10 rps as a 100% uptime on SD is just plain OP and sick

[Arielle]

Before the buff, Tang was saying Dodge > Crit > Hit /Exp > Mastery > Haste. This is true until we hit 10 RPS (Rage-Per-Second). At which point the values of Crit, hit, exp and haste drop. The reasoning is that we are able to hit SD or FR every 6 seconds. Right now it's looking more like every 8-10 seconds in level 90 gear.

I haven't gotten around to updating the Guardian module of Rawr so I cannot confirm. But With this buff, I would expect Haste to be about even, if not better than Mastery.

Haste moves ahead of Mastery with the buff.

[Hinalover]

either way bears should never reach 10 rps as a 100% uptime on SD is just plain OP and sick

Due to the way that SD works, you cannot have 100% uptime. At most 60-70% or so. This is due to the fact that it takes 10 seconds for an SD to recharge so after the first 35 seconds, it's only up for 60% of the time. (6 second uptime, 4 second downtime).

[Elunedra]

oke didnt know it had a 10 sec cooldowns nowdays that nice

[dancm]

It has nothing to do with the amount of haste/crit bears get from gear, and everything to do with the value of the stat. It's pretty obvious why they did it: To make haste more attractive stats (increase their value by 50%).

Now why exactly they'd want to do that I have no idea...

It has nothing to do with the value of the stat. It has something to do with testing rage generation (and thereby active survivability) for T16 without having T16. This change will probably be gone the moment they actually start the number's game (balancing).

[aggixx]

It has nothing to do with the value of the stat. It has something to do with testing rage generation (and thereby active survivability) for T16 without having T16. This change will probably be gone the moment they actually start the number's game (balancing).

So "rage generation (and thereby active survivability)" isn't the same thing as stat value?

[dancm]

So "rage generation (and thereby active survivability)" isn't the same thing as stat value?

Yes, rage generation and stat value are not the same thing. There is a dependency between them but they're not the same.

[aggixx]

What value do crit, hit, haste, and expertise have to your survivability other the rage regen? The boss dying faster, of course, but that isn't something that is conventionally considered as an increase to your survivability, so other than that?

[dancm]

What value do crit, hit, haste, and expertise have to your survivability other the rage regen? The boss dying faster, of course, but that isn't something that is conventionally considered as an increase to your survivability, so other than that?

Rage generation itself is just a number. Context applies value. Part of that context is e.g. choice of abilities, their power, duration, cost and cooldown. And there's a lot more to consider to get something like a relative stat value. Now if our rage generation is too low what can Blizz do? They could e.g. reduce the cost of our abilities. This would also increase the value of crit, haste, hit and expertise (as long as everything else stays the same). They could do a lot of other things which do not increase our damage at the same time. So the question is: Why did they do this? As you already mentioned it there are 4 secondary stats influencing our rage generation but 2 of them are pretty hard capped and will probably be capped within the first equipment tier. So if you want to know how bears scale with future equipment you have to look at the stats actually increasing every tier and simulate that increase.

[The Ogdru Jahad]

I feel like the entire druid tanking model is botched, and would need a complete revamp from the ground level to balance. We have 2 defensive stats, dodge and armor. Warriors and paladins have dodge, armor, blocking, parry, DKS have that minus the block. Idk about monks, but stagger is pretty interesting.

We bears need a new way to mitigate dmg that isn't hit or miss like we have now.