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  1. #1

    4.3 Death Knight PVP 101

    *** WORK IN PROGRESS ***

    Hey guys,

    Karazee and I have decided to try to put together a dummies guide for DK PVP in all three specs. I don't expect this to be a comprehensive spoonfeeding session on how to play every single aspect of PVP, but it should be enough to get everyone started on the right path if they come looking for basic answers.

    I would ask the following:
    • If you contribute, explain your contribution! Don't simply post, "This is better," and expect to be taken seriously. Provide good, sound reasoning so that our post can contain quality, not opinions.
    • Be humble enough to know when opinion and fact differ. I don't want this thread to degrade into petty quibbling over filler points that don't matter, or aspects of gaming that border on insignificance.

    BLOOD

    Introduction:
    Blood is typically a tank spec in PVE, so its use in PVP is esoteric to say the least. While you will be capable of hitting quite hard due to Vengeance and Glyph of Death Strike, you’ll be unable to effectively control anyone else, melee, ranged, or caster. Your strength as Blood is in your ability to stay alive, almost to the point of annoyance for your opponents. Vampiric Blood in combination with Death Strikes and Rune Tap can quickly refill your health bar and make you an excellent flag carrier (FC) or node protector (such as Arathi Basin). However, it’s generally believed that if you aim to assist an arena team in dealing damage, you’d be best suited trying Frost or Unholy.

    Spec:
    Blood Spec
    There is a lot of room for flexibility in the remaining points. Blood is about survival, not killing, and any points beyond attaining Lichborne in the Frost tree merely provide utility or damage. Use the remaining points as you see fit.

    Glyphs:
    The only Prime Glyph that adds to survivability, albeit very little, is Glyph of Death Coil when used to self-heal in combination with Lichborne. Aside from that, choose from any of the following to your liking:

    Glyph of Death Strike
    Glyph of Rune Strike
    Glyph of Heart Strike

    Stats/Gems:
    With survivability in mind, Stamina and Resilience are your best options. Traditional tanking stats (Dodge, Parry, Mastery) can be very powerful in certain situations, but very useless in others (ie, powerful vs. melee, useless vs. casters). This means that red gems are typically not as powerful, and in general, you would likely be best-served to only gem for a red socket when the bonus is beneficial (+30 Stamina, +30 Resilience, etc).

    Color/Desired Stat:

    Blue: Stamina
    Yellow: Resilience
    Red: Avoidance (Parry) or Expertise (if needed)

    Meta:
    Austere Shadowspirit Diamond

    Blue:
    Solid Ocean Sapphire

    Yellow:
    Mystic Amberjewel

    Red (socket):
    Defender's Demonseye
    Guardian's Demonseye

    Enchants:
    Any profession-specific enchant would override the enchants listed below. Keep in mind that Stamina and Resilience are key, and that many Cataclysm enchants don't offer either. Below I've listed the best possible Stamina and Resilience available to everyone. Use your best judgement when selecting enchants.

    Head: Arcanum of the Earthen Ring
    Shoulder: Greater Inscription of Unbreakable Quartz
    Back: Enchant Cloak - Protection
    Chest: Enchant Chest - Greater Stamina or Enchant Chest - Mighty Resilience
    Wrist: Enchant Bracer - Major Stamina
    Hands: Heavy Savage Armor Kit
    Legs: Drakehide Leg Armor
    Boots: Enchant Boots - Earthen Vitality
    Weapon: Rune of the Stoneskin Gargoyle or Rune of Swordshattering

    Playstyle Tips:
    • Stay in Blood Presence for the damage reduction and Rune Strikes on-call
    • Pay special attention to classes that can disarm you (rogues, warriors, hunter pets) as you will be extremely vulnerable with no Death Strikes
    • Remember you can summon a ghoul and sacrifice him for a quick 40% health boost
    • Dark Simulacrum against healers can provide even more survivability
    • Your diseases are little more than an annoyance at the end of the day – use them sparingly as they have no effect on Death Strike or Rune Strike
    • Don’t blow all your Blood Runes on Heart Strikes (remember, you’re not in the group to do damage) – always save at least one for Rune Tap

    FROST

    Introduction:
    If you’re just beginning with DK PVP, Frost is the spec for you. It’s highly effective with use of a minimal number of skills, and is pretty forgiving regarding ability choice compared to Unholy. Conversely, if you’re a seasoned player looking for a highly competitive Arena spec, or a spec that’s going to obliterate (no pun intended) FCs in Rated Battlegrounds (RBGs), then look to Unholy.

    Spec:
    I am only going to say this once. If you don’t read this, and you post something to the contrary in the thread below, we all reserve the right to tell you to learn to read, and/or call you stupid:

    >>>FROST SPECS ARE HIGHLY DEBATED!<<<

    Some people swear by 2H, some swear by Dual Wield (DW). I am only going to provide what is considered general knowledge for both sides, and leave you to make the choice that you believe is best for your playstyle and/or preference.

    2H:
    2H Frost Spec
    Pros:
    • High Runic Power (RP) generation, leading to great Frost Strike burst
    • Flexibility in talents (no need to take 3/3 Nerves of Cold Steel)
    • Great Necrotic Strike stacking from 2H weapon damage
    Cons:
    • Need slightly more Hit Rating to reach cap, which drops other stats
    • Slightly less predictable damage as you rely heavily on Might of the Frozen Waste procs

    DW:
    DW Frost Spec
    Pros:
    • Two weapons allows use of both Rune of the Fallen Crusader and Rune of Razorice, leading to better sustained damage on a single target
    • Some flexibility in secondary trees as there is merit in taking either Unholy for Desecration, or Blood for Butchery and Scent of Blood
    Cons:
    • Necrotic Strikes hit for significantly less, meaning you will rely more on Howling Blast and Frost Strike to provide pressure
    • Rune of Razorice has a slight ramp-up time (to reach 5 stacks), so you will suffer if you switch targets heavily

    Glyphs:
    Glyphs for both specs are fairly straight-forward. In general, Obliterate is considered a poor choice of a skill in PVP due to the heavy damage reduction it suffers from both Armor and Resilience, though it still has a place as an execute against cloth-wearing classes. As such, most players choose to ignore Obliterate almost entirely in lieu of Necrotic Strike, Howling Blast, and Frost Strike. This makes our Glyph selection fairly simple.

    Glyph of Howling Blast
    Glyph of Icy Touch
    Glyph of Frost Strike

    Some players also like Glyph of Hungering Cold, though recent nerfs (addition of a cast time) have made this skill far less useful than in the past. Use at your own discretion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kukkaroinen View Post
    Hungering Cold is still an amazing skill. It just has become a bit harder to use but when you manage to get it out, you're on top of the fight. I just had this kind of situation in a 3s setting against a PHD as ret/rogue/dk. In dalaran arena i was at the stairs with the hpala when my rogue and ret were on the dk on the platform and the hunter had just jumped down and was near the stairs.

    Gripping the hunter and rooting him, followed by a HC which caught both the hunter and the pally cost them the match. The pally was too busy healing the dk to interrupt in time and hunters can't interrupt from melee range (only silencing shot from range) which made the use of this spell amazing.*

    If you're not focused and you can get a cast off it's awesome. When there's 2 ppl on you who can interrupt, don't bother.

    Stats/Gems:
    Frost is about dealing damage, and lots of it. In general, 40 Strength gems will be better than any other choice, with the obvious exception of socket bonuses that compensate for the lack of 20 Strength in choosing a multi-color gem (for example, a yellow socket with a bonus of +30 strength would take a 20 Strength/20 X gem). Our best secondary stat is Mastery as it greatly enhances our Frost Strike and Howling Blast damage – two of our three bread-and-butter abilities.

    Ideally, you will obtain enough Hit rating from PVP gear to reach the necessary cap of 5%. For DW, this is easier as the talent Nerves of Cold Steel gives 3% Hit as well.*

    Another important consideration, which can be followed or ignored based on where you PVP most often, is the Spell Penetration cap of 195. Spell Penetration reduces enemy resistances by 1 point per point that you have. In general, Glove and Belt sockets will be blue, and are a good option for +50 Spell Penetration gems. Additionally, many players opt for the supporting 70 Spell Penetration cloak enchant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Senteras View Post
    I'd like to contribute just a bit to gem section. Rather than use three or four +50 spell pen gems and an enchant or something, I prefer using two +50 spell pen gems, and a "Vivid Dream Emerald", which is 25 Spell Pen and 20 Resilience, and the cloak enchant with it. This way, I get the exact cap for spell penetration! Its just more efficient!

    Color/Desired Stat:

    Red: Strength
    Yellow: Mastery
    Blue: Hit Rating (if needed) or Spell Penetration

    Meta:
    Reverberating Shadowspirit Diamond

    Red:
    Bold Inferno Ruby

    Yellow (socket):
    Skillful Ember Topaz

    Blue:
    Etched Demonseye
    Stormy Ocean Sapphire

    Enchants:
    As always, any profession-specific enchant would override the enchants listed below. These are options available to everyone.

    Head: Arcanum of the Dragonmaw
    Shoulder: Greater Inscription of Jagged Stone
    Back: Enchant Cloak - Greater Critical Strike or Enchant Cloak - Greater Spell Piercing
    Chest: Enchant Chest - Peerless Stats or Enchant Chest - Mighty Resilience
    Wrist: Enchant Bracer - Major Strength
    Hands: Enchant Gloves - Mighty Strength
    Legs: Dragonscale Leg Armor
    Boots: Enchant Boots - Mastery
    Weapon: Rune of the Fallen Crusader or that with Rune of Razorice on Main Hand for DW spec

    Playstyle Tips:
    • Stay in Unholy Presence for the run speed and global cooldown reduction - Frost Presence is far too clunky and makes you too slow to react effectively against most opponents
    • Macro Pillar of Frost to any on-use trinkets with Strength or Mastery buffs
    • Use your Pillar of Frost macro before opening on a target
    • Stack Necrotic Strikes with Death and Unholy, use Frost Runes to slow/control, and dump Runic Power with Frost Strike after Frost Strike
    • If DW spec, opt for Howling Blast over Necrotic Strike as Necrotic Strike absorbs dealing based on Main Hand weapon damage (which is low for DW)
    • Abuse Chains of Ice like there’s no tomorrow

    UNHOLY

    Introduction:
    At the moment (4.3.2), Unholy is considered the go-to spec for high-end Arena play, and even has its place in RBG groups. The pressure that it can apply with properly aligned cooldowns is beyond compare. However, there is a high skill ceiling associated with this spec as proper ghoul management and tedious monitoring of your runes and cooldowns will play a huge factor in your success (or failure).

    Spec:
    Much like Frost spec, there are two specs to choose from here. The difference in the specs is the choice of the talent Rage of Rivendare, which increases the damage of Plague Strike, Scourge Strike, and Festering Strike by 15/30/45%. The key question is whether or not you plan to rely on damage output (diseases and Scourge Strike), or by negating healing (Necrotic Strike).

    Unholy Spec WITH Rage of Rivendare
    This spec would focus on damage output via diseases, Scourge Strike, Festering Strike, and Death Coil.

    Unholy Spec WITHOUT Rage of Rivendare
    This spec would focus on use of Necrotic Strike to negate opponent healing, and rely heavily on other damage sources to kill.

    Glyphs:
    The glyphs of the two specs above only differ in that without Rage of Rivendare, there's no reason to glyph Scourge Strike. It leaves very few viable choices, however.

    Glyph of Scourge Strike (Rage of Rivendare spec only)
    Glyph of Raise Dead
    Glyph of Death Coil

    Glyph of Icy Touch (Possible substitute for Glyph of Scourge Strike in Necrotic Strike spec)

    Stats/Gems:
    The stats and gems between Frost and Unholy differ very little. The only significant difference is that Unholy prefers Haste rather than Mastery. Otherwise, the same general rules apply: 1) Hit cap, 2) Spell Penetration cap, 3) Strength in all sockets, unless a significant socket bonus calls for a multi-color gem.

    Color/Desired Stat:

    Red: Strength
    Yellow: Haste
    Blue: Hit Rating (if needed) or Spell Penetration

    Meta:
    Reverberating Shadowspirit Diamond

    Red:
    Bold Inferno Ruby

    Yellow (socket):
    Fierce Ember Topaz

    Blue:
    Etched Demonseye
    Stormy Ocean Sapphire

    Enchants:
    Again, these enchants are the common enchants that all players can obtain. Profession-enchants would override these where applicable.

    Head: Arcanum of the Dragonmaw
    Shoulder: Greater Inscription of Jagged Stone
    Back: Enchant Cloak - Greater Critical Strike or Enchant Cloak - Greater Spell Piercing
    Chest: Enchant Chest - Peerless Stats or Enchant Chest - Mighty Resilience
    Wrist: Enchant Bracer - Major Strength
    Hands: Enchant Gloves - Mighty Strength
    Legs: Dragonscale Leg Armor
    Boots:Enchant Boots - Haste
    Weapon: Rune of the Fallen Crusader

    Playstyle Tips:

    Some community members have chimed in at later points in the thread. Rather than reinvent the wheel, I'll simply provide their input.

    Quote Originally Posted by kartmanlol View Post
    A big part of your damage/burst and control will come from your pets, therefore it's very important that you know how to micromanage them.

    One of the best trick for unholy against disc priests and Hpalies is when they pop their inner focus, aura mastery and become immune to interrupts, you can deathgrip them off the initial cast which gives your ghoul a second to regen some energy so you can use your ghoul stun on them asap so they can't cast again while they have their buffs up. With my ghoul, I turn off his auto claw cast and I bind pet attack and pet cast claw to my necrotic and scourge strikes. This way I can have some control over my pet's claw attacks so I can control when I want to pool some energy for a ghoul stun. Also with petattack, if another enemy gets agro from your pet, it'll send the pet back to your current target.*

    Also, remember, when your ghoul is empowered, his charge becomes a 2 second range interrupt and root, do not underestimate that spell and make sure you have a focus macro for focus charge and focus stun. Make another macro with pet attack mouseover target and make sure you got name plates turned including the health for totems. This is very good against shaman healers that try to kite you with earth bind totem, just mouse over the totem when they drop it and order your pet to destroy it as there is a tiny delay between the totem dropping and you becoming affected by the debuff.

    I generally chain my on use trinket and orc racial together just before I pop my gargoyle. If I'm not under much pressure, I would pop unholy frenzy as well before I pop gargoyle as it is a huge boost to the pet's damage output. When your in arena or bgs, make sure you have your target in a desirable position before you summon gargoyle such as on blade's edge arena, summon the pet when your target is on the bottom and not on the bridge as they can simply jump off and your pets will have to go the long way. Its always best to pop it when the enemy is out in the open so they cant pillar kite your pets.

    And lastly... always watch your ghoul's health, make a macro to deathcoil heal it, a dead ghoul means a huge chunk of your damage and control is gone.
    Last edited by Skygoneblue; 2012-03-12 at 01:42 PM.

  2. #2
    Things I think should change from http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/983163

    - DW Shouldn't glyph for obliterate as they're never using obliterate.
    - Scent of Blood is an option to generate a lot of RP for DW, but only if you can afford to lose desecration.
    - For DW Imp. FP is a waste because 4% RP gen is nothing. (for every 100 RP you'll get 4 extra yay)
    - 2H has an option to either glyph for OB or IT (Only IT listed there)

    If I didn't explain something enough please let me know =) I hope this helps.

  3. #3
    I'll cover the Blood section.

    Don't do it, and get a prot warrior FC and stick nodes as Unholy or kill shit as Frost.

    Arena, don't play Blood.

    Randoms don't matter. Do whatever.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Skygoneblue View Post
    Hey guys,

    Karazee and I have decided to try to put together a dummies guide for DK PVP in all three specs.
    Hey, I just suggested it. I am new at DK PvP so I don't expect to contribute much, other than my contribution will be that I'm the dummy, so if I don't understand something, I'll let you know.

    That said, It's really overdue that DK's have something like this - all the other classes seem to.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Kukkaroinen View Post
    Things I think should change from http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/983163

    - DW Shouldn't glyph for obliterate as they're never using obliterate.
    - Scent of Blood is an option to generate a lot of RP for DW, but only if you can afford to lose desecration.
    - For DW Imp. FP is a waste because 4% RP gen is nothing. (for every 100 RP you'll get 4 extra yay)
    - 2H has an option to either glyph for OB or IT (Only IT listed there)

    If I didn't explain something enough please let me know =) I hope this helps.
    Thanks Kukka. There's a lot of debate about the use of Obliterate at all. I think for the sake of this guide, I'll just state both sides, and let people make their own choices.

  6. #6
    The only problem with blood is Necrotic Strike replacing DS most of the time..
    I'd say if you have a decent gear, roll 2h Frost or UH.

  7. #7
    Dreadlord Kegler's Avatar
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    Vengeance no longer works in pvp, i believe.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by JackTheLad View Post
    The only problem with blood is Necrotic Strike replacing DS most of the time..
    I'd say if you have a decent gear, roll 2h Frost or UH.
    That's why I'm suggesting that if people roll Blood that they do so with the mindset of being a tank/FC - not a DPS.

  9. #9
    As UH you also have to choose between some major things. You can skip Rage of Rivendare if you want or you can take it. Both are definitely viable. UH also needs Lichborne. It's mandatory. If you choose RoR you will drop bladed armor and take 2/3 sudden doom and 1/2 ebon plaguebringer. (Or 2/2, 1/3 whichever you prefer).

    If you spec into RoR you should glyph Scourge Strike. SS for UH works kinda like OB for frost. It's mainly used for executing but also has it's moments if you know your enemy can't heal or you've reached a high enough absorbption.*
    Last edited by Kukkaroinen; 2012-03-06 at 05:30 PM.

  10. #10
    I have looked at your dw frost spec and have a few question and comments.

    First of all, it loks like a battleground only spec. For arena there really is no idea in putting talent in Butchery.

    Next. I find it hard to argue that improved blood tab should be any good. Once every 30 sec you can restore a rune... And you need time it right to not just waste the spell, so you cant just bind it. Wouldn't it be more useful to go for some movement like a pale on horse or to slow enemy with desecration.

    Finally i also here see you have imp frost presence. This is odd as you later write this:

    Playstyle Tips: Stay in Unholy Presence for the run speed and global cooldown reduction - Frost Presence is far too clunky and makes you too slow to react effectively against most opponents
    With my focus on arena i think a great spec would look like this: wowhead.com/talent#j0hZGhRrfzRdczfM (not allowed to post links yet, so cpy paste to see

    Like to have your comments about it.

  11. #11
    I have looked at your dw frost spec and have a few question and comments.

    First of all, it loks like a battleground only spec. For arena there really is no idea in putting talent in Butchery.

    Next. I find it hard to argue that improved blood tab should be any good. Once every 30 sec you can restore a rune... And you need time it right to not just waste the spell, so you cant just bind it. Wouldn't it be more useful to go for some movement like a pale on horse or to slow enemy with desecration.

    Finally i also here see you have imp frost presence. This is odd as you later write this:

    Playstyle Tips: Stay in Unholy Presence for the run speed and global cooldown reduction - Frost Presence is far too clunky and makes you too slow to react effectively against most opponents
    With my focus on arena i think a great spec would look like this: wowhead.com/talent#j0hZGhRrfzRdczfM (not allowed to post links yet, so cpy paste to see

    Like to have your comments about it.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by zixiz View Post
    I have looked at your dw frost spec and have a few question and comments.

    First of all, it loks like a battleground only spec. For arena there really is no idea in putting talent in Butchery.

    Next. I find it hard to argue that improved blood tab should be any good. Once every 30 sec you can restore a rune... And you need time it right to not just waste the spell, so you cant just bind it. Wouldn't it be more useful to go for some movement like a pale on horse or to slow enemy with desecration.

    Finally i also here see you have imp frost presence. This is odd as you later write this:



    With my focus on arena i think a great spec would look like this: wowhead.com/talent#j0hZGhRrfzRdczfM (not allowed to post links yet, so cpy paste to see

    Like to have your comments about it.
    You're completely correct there mate. That's the basic DW spec with UH sub spec. However if you want to sub spec blood, your best choice is Scent of Blood because it gives you so much RP. Imp. BT and Hand of Doom are nowhere as good as SoB. If you hate SoB (lol) you should pick HoD but NEVER imp. BT.
    the way to go is SoB or Desecration.

  13. #13
    Super Moderator Darsithis's Avatar
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    Finally! I've never been sure of how to PvP as a DK. I spent over an hour combing threads in here to get some basics but this'll improve things for my PvP DK.



  14. #14
    Thanks for the feedback on the DW Frost spec guys (I'm a 2H player by default, so I am not great with DW stuff). I'll put Zixiz's link in there as the default, and mention Blood subspec for Scent of Blood only.

    @ Darth - Glad to hear it!

  15. #15
    Sorry, but i must disagree on the tip that states OB isn't too great. The only time it doesn't hit very hard is against a plate wearer. You go up against a clothie (I'm 2H btw) and OB hits just as hard as Frost Strike (close to 20k on full resil). Charge in there, pop your chains on them, AMS off the bat, ad pop your cd's. You get two OB off, empower rune weapon, and pop three more off, then dump 3 to 4 frost strikes on them. This is all in about 5 seconds.

    I have been able to kill clothies by doing this even with a healer behind them, because they don't realize what just hit them. A section on dark simulacrum could be handy too. Death gripping a mage who has dark sim on him and watching him blink away, only to blink right after him is priceless, or watching people scratch their heads if you catch mirror images. (yes I am aware that polymorph would be the ideal spell to copy)
    Fire type. 0834 1013 9676

  16. #16
    @Asher - Just to stay true to what I stated in the original post, could you share a combat log excerpt or a screenshot of Recount to validate that? I've seen way more people advising against Obliterate than supporting it, so I'm hesitant to say anything to the contrary unless we all have good reason to believe otherwise. (Not saying I don't believe you, but a community of skeptics will want to see the numbers.)

    Also, the Dark Sim section is a great idea. Would you care to take a stab at that? Maybe just a list of skills-by-class that are pinnacle for Dark Sim?*

    ---------- Post added 2012-03-06 at 02:22 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Kukkaroinen View Post
    As UH you also have to choose between some major things. You can skip Rage of Rivendare if you want or you can take it. Both are definitely viable. UH also needs Lichborne. It's mandatory. If you choose RoR you will drop bladed armor and take 2/3 sudden doom and 1/2 ebon plaguebringer. (Or 2/2, 1/3 whichever you prefer).

    If you spec into RoR you should glyph Scourge Strike. SS for UH works kinda like OB for frost. It's mainly used for executing but also has it's moments if you know your enemy can't heal or you've reached a high enough absorbption.*
    Hey Kukka - Is this what you would recommend for UH spec? Should we be skipping Improved Unholy Presence?

    With ROR:
    http://www.wowhead.com/talent#j0bZG0obZfMcdcfuokd

    Without ROR:
    http://www.wowhead.com/talent#j0bZG0obZfMcdcfzkRu
    ^ How do you get to 31 points without Imp UH Pres?*

    Why is MMO-Champ randomly adding Asterisks to everything?
    Last edited by Skygoneblue; 2012-03-06 at 08:23 PM.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Skygoneblue View Post
    Also, the Dark Sim section is a great idea. Would you care to take a stab at that? Maybe just a list of skills-by-class that are pinnacle for Dark Sim?*
    My favourite so far was stealing a mage's Blink.

    ---------- Post added 2012-03-07 at 12:14 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by JackTheLad View Post
    The only problem with blood is Necrotic Strike replacing DS most of the time..
    I'd say if you have a decent gear, roll 2h Frost or UH.
    In a BG, I'm normally using all my unholy and death runes to spam NS, and my frost runes to keep the target slowed. This cripples most classes so that your other team mates can take them down easily.

    One on one, I tend to use Death Strike vs melee and NS/Slow on casters; but you really do need some backup to help you finish a good player off.

    I think the strength of the Blood DK in BGs is that the other team will really struggle to take you down, so when you are badgering their healer, they can do little about it. When they do try and take you down, the rest of your team can get on with winning BG objectives.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    you're likely wrong, and we don't care anyway.
    Source

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Skygoneblue View Post
    @Asher - Just to stay true to what I stated in the original post, could you share a combat log excerpt or a screenshot of Recount to validate that? I've seen way more people advising against Obliterate than supporting it, so I'm hesitant to say anything to the contrary unless we all have good reason to believe otherwise. (Not saying I don't believe you, but a community of skeptics will want to see the numbers.)

    Also, the Dark Sim section is a great idea. Would you care to take a stab at that? Maybe just a list of skills-by-class that are pinnacle for Dark Sim?*

    ---------- Post added 2012-03-06 at 02:22 PM ----------



    Hey Kukka - Is this what you would recommend for UH spec? Should we be skipping Improved Unholy Presence?

    With ROR:
    http://www.wowhead.com/talent#j0bZG0obZfMcdcfuokd

    Without ROR:
    http://www.wowhead.com/talent#j0bZG0obZfMcdcfzkRu
    ^ How do you get to 31 points without Imp UH Pres?*

    Why is MMO-Champ randomly adding Asterisks to everything?
    Here are the specs i'd recommend for UH:

    With RoR
    http://www.wowhead.com/talent#jZG0obZfMcdcfuRkd

    Without RoR
    http://www.wowhead.com/talent#j0bZG0obZfMcdcfzRku

    If you take RoR you have to drop Bladed Armor. And you always want to take Imp. UH pres.

    And to Asher13:

    Obliterate is SHIT. You can't compare it to Frost Strike because they use completely different resources. OB costs 1UH and 1 Frost rune while FS costs 32RP. There's nothing better you can do with 32RP and that's why FS is used. For 1 UH and 1 Frost rune you can use HB and NS which is A LOT better than a single obli.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Kukkaroinen View Post
    And to Asher13:

    Obliterate is SHIT. You can't compare it to Frost Strike because they use completely different resources. OB costs 1UH and 1 Frost rune while FS costs 32RP. There's nothing better you can do with 32RP and that's why FS is used. For 1 UH and 1 Frost rune you can use HB and NS which is A LOT better than a single obli.
    What I've seen said is if the opponent is close to death, and already has a Necrotic stack on them, you can do more damage and ensure the kill more effectively, and in a shorter time (1 GCD), with Obliterate. Sure, you can do more total and use resources more wisely over the time it takes with Necrotic Strike and Howling Blast and Frost Strike, but when you need that one big hit to kill the clothie who is near death, Obliterate might serve you better just in that one narrow instance and short time frame - that if you can kill them in one more hit, Obliterate might be a smarter choice. That's how I've heard it, anyway. Whether it's a good idea to be spamming Obliterates into someone... damn, I'm lucky when I can get that many hits off in a row. People have so many escapes nowadays.

  20. #20
    Ok guys, I have a lot of the Unholy section in place. I need some more feedback about:*

    - 3rd glyph for spec without Rage of Rivendare
    - Playstyle tips

    Also, I think a General Info section would help. Could anyone help me collect:

    - Hit rating caps for 2H and DW?
    - Spell Pen caps vs. each resistance buff/class?
    - Other significant information (Dark Simulacrum list)

    Thanks for all your input so far!

    PS - I'm going to murder this ****ing HTML editor. It keeps screwing up all my spacing and formatting. GRRR! /rage
    Last edited by Skygoneblue; 2012-03-07 at 04:58 PM.

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