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  1. #1

    H botanist : the endless shitshow (Help and advice pls :) )

    Hi. We're a casual guild filled with what may come closer to ADHD riddled baboons than to actual players, and progressing through heroic.
    Tonight we lost 2 fucking hours rekilling H Botanist after taking like 4 pulls to kill him last week, and I'd like some help as to why we may have such a hard time on it.

    Here's the log for the kill https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...l&type=summary you can see our 15 wipes before it too (yeah ...)

    What we do is tank the boss on a sphere spawn, all ranged supposed (as I said, baboons, so won't always be the case) to be spread on a line around max range of the boss so they can handle lashers / collapse by getting their asses to the other end of the line, and ensuring we never have a chaos between boss and ranged line. We have high mobility melees switch on the lashers, and try to have them kited roughly in the same direction, use shaman's stun totems / shockwaves to cc them. Overall they're not an issue unless one of the less awake baboons just stays near them when focused.

    We lust when the 3rd boss comes up to burn through them as much as possible before we have to constantly swap between the spheres / lashers and move out for chaos and collapse.

    Basically we start having deaths around 30%, for no obvious reason. This time around we had few classes capable of soaking spores, and we took WAY too much damage from eclipse (I believe we took around 60M when some other kills around our time were about 20-25M taken), but as I don't see any noticeable increase in healers throughput I don't think this is purely an "unovoidable unhealable excess of damage".

    Am I missing something that could help us ?

  2. #2
    I mean you're really over thinking the fight. Spread out, dispell lashers, ranged kill lashers, and win.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyky View Post
    I mean you're really over thinking the fight. Spread out, dispell lashers, ranged kill lashers, and win.
    Like I said : our ranged are baboons. We have to assing strict positionning on nearly every single fight if we have any hope of handling the mechanics correctly. And the lashers do get killed, I don't think they're the problem, or at least not one that could be changed without simply kicking out those guys who don't seem to be able to recognize they're being targeted AND to move accordingly.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptnTorpedo View Post
    Like I said : our ranged are baboons. We have to assing strict positionning on nearly every single fight if we have any hope of handling the mechanics correctly. And the lashers do get killed, I don't think they're the problem, or at least not one that could be changed without simply kicking out those guys who don't seem to be able to recognize they're being targeted AND to move accordingly.
    I'm just saying you're way over complicating the fight which I'm sure plays a hefty part of bad play. Like making a line is a horrible idea, you should just have them spread out and move. If they don't they die, if they die the boss causes a wipe. You can't carry a whole raid of dead weight in Nighthold like you could in Emerald Nightmare. So probably should give up if you seriously can't believe in your rosters ability to kill the boss and do the mechanics correctly.

  5. #5
    Seems like you went 3 heals at the start which I think is better, the less time in last phase the less chance someone screws up

  6. #6
    Not sure what to tell you besides don't fail the mechanics, but there is one thing that is consistently wearing groups down in the last phase and that is the night debuffs. If you don't soak them properly, each deals ~110k/sec to the entire raid. Not too bad on its own, but last phase already has loads of issues with people dropping hard.

    Also, drop the strict positioning requirements. Spread out, don't stand in chaos, don't stand in solar collapse, target the right spheres, have everyone go on lashers.
    Last edited by Magicpot; 2017-02-28 at 06:00 AM.

  7. #7
    looks likes your raid group thinks toxic spores are a dmg boost.

    dodge that shit.

  8. #8
    High Overlord
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    Sad to hear it. I'm in a guild where we went from having the worst issues to none.

    I suggest just kiting the boss around the area instead of soaking any spores. Mayb only soak a few with immunities.

    The hardest part for many people is to not just tunnel and dps-whore. As I usually say, DPS doesnt matter if boss doesnt die, so the only thing that matters is the Light-stacking. If ur best dps has to stop hitting the boss and make sure people wont die fron Light, then so be it.

    We do the boss in a triangle. Between then 3 Sphere's. And we ALWAYS keep our Ranged at MAX range from boss, so we never get the big-purple anywhere badly. Looking at your logs, your deaths are mainly from Eclipse (Light) or Spores, means some of your players lack situational awareness or are just horny for dps.

  9. #9
    Thanks for the input

    Quote Originally Posted by xcess View Post
    Seems like you went 3 heals at the start which I think is better, the less time in last phase the less chance someone screws up
    Thing is 3 healing it lead to people just slowly dying from unavoidable damage (like plasma spheres + controlled chaos light aoe killed people), adding a fourth one meant we avoided this at least. But yeah the plan was at first to go with 3 healers.

    Also, drop the strict positioning requirements. Spread out, don't stand in chaos, don't stand in solar collapse, target the right spheres, have everyone go on lashers.
    At first we weren't using any strict positioning, but we ended up with chaos spawning all over the place, players not knowing where the lashers were coming from / where to kite them to / where they should dodge the collapses to. As a lot of people said, a lot of our raiders have REAL awareness issues, and I know that all too well sadly.

    Any positioning tips to help me rein in the baboons so they stop running around like headless chickens instead of handling the mechanics ? I know it's mostly personal responsibility, but I know some of those players have real trouble with just knowing what the hell is happening around them, so I have to try and find rigorous processes to apply so they don't fail too much (because I don't want to just say "fuck it" and drop it altogether.

  10. #10
    Is someone calling out dispells and everything else? cos you can wait till people have moved far away from the person rooted then you can dispell after. Making sure melee dont charge in if they are fixiated. Or have the person call out they are rooted and maybe mark them so ppl can move. Everythings on a timer so maybe having people call everything out is whats needed

  11. #11
    The Lightbringer Zelk's Avatar
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    Newcastle, UK
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    Get your locks to play Writhe and Soul Effigy and they'll both do 150-200k more, most of it in the 3rd phase where it really matters

  12. #12
    You need a ranged/healer to call out the abilities as they come along. A hunter would be ideal since they can target switch/move around easier - e.g. "adds coming up, spheres asap, find a partner". Tell your ranged to modify their BigWigs so they can emphasize Parasitic Fetter, Plasma Spheres, Solar Collapse, Call of Night - whatever they find most difficult to notice.

    Unfortunately this fight is one poorly designed massive clusterfuck, and is purely about positioning, having one person verbally guide your ranged will make a huge difference IMO.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Zelk View Post
    Get your locks to play Writhe and Soul Effigy and they'll both do 150-200k more, most of it in the 3rd phase where it really matters
    Or for even easier time just faceroll with demo (crap on lashers though). Your locks really shouldn't be that low.

  14. #14
    I'll pass along to the locks, thanks. All the important abilities are called, I call some of them as melee RL, and have a ranged call the fetters and the switch on the second orb (we let ranged handle this one). Call of the night is supposed to be handled by a few designated soakers (mages, boomkins) but logs tell me they're doing a crap job at it.

    Thanks for the input bois.

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