Cataclysm Post Mortem - Dungeons and Raids, Darkmoon Faire Issues, MMO Report

[Deleted]

IMO Grim Batol was a failure in comparison to Wintergrasp

EDIT: I was thinking of that prison

Fuck vehicle combat, it was too fucked up in badly populated realms

[cateran100]

Cthun pre nerf was not close to imposible, it was imposible, that's why it was nerfed, so that doesnt count.

And yes, Ragnaros was harder than LK, close but harder. Spine might be close.

Anyway, if you want i change the statement to Ragnaros, LK and Spine were the most difficult fight in the history of wow, the point of my post stands.

---------- Post added 2012-03-07 at 09:17 AM ----------



Why has he go to normal? You go raiding if you want to spend hours doing challenghing content, most of us want heroic dungeons to be fast and the HoT heroics were by far the best heroics in the expansion for many of us.

Initial Cataclysm heroic dungeons sucked for most people.

No offense but stop thinking only about yourself, you do are an elitists, even if you play very few hours. Elitist is not about how many hours you play (thats what hardcore stands), elitists is about the exact attitude you have, asking content to be made to cater to a few elite minority instead of to the non elite mayority..

---------- Post added 2012-03-07 at 09:19 AM ----------



You wont have to carry anyone, because despite the minority not liking it, Blizzard already said that heroic dungeons will be Wrath difficult in MoP, because they realize that most of us want that and not being 2 hours in a stupid heroic dungeon.
You should drop that awfull attitude you have.

The only flaw with your logic is the raid can be stopped anywhere and continue it whenever you wants (you can lock it for the eternity..) A HEROIC instance as the name implies must be something which is HARD..that`s why it`s HEROIC and not NORMAL....And sorry..I`m not crying for example about the raids because if i don`t have TIME to play or DO IT, then it`s not my concern..(If you have just 20 mins to play a proper football match with your friends, should you lobby for the shortened matches?(down from 2x45 mins to 2x10?) Or -make it faster and easier- want to allow your team to use their hands too, not just their feet?
Edit: If I -with my poor abilities- did not find them impossible or even hard, then everybody else who did it must be a really, really bad player...I know where is my place, I`m lightyears away to be a good player, but even for me, most of the instances were medium challenge (except a few bosses or few parts partially thx to the mechanism, partially thx to my skills) Ohh in the forst time ofc most of them was "hard" or the word unknown and stranger fits more..but after a couple of times almost everything went smooth ( I remember when every group disbanded in lk, when the system put them into oculus..it was too "hard" for the majority..yeah pressing 3 buttons is kinda hard...If you take some time and read carefully what the skills says was easy to realize..it`s easy...Just most of the ppl (including you) like to be pampered...Why don`t you suggest to Blizz to automatically send via mail an epic loot to everybody in every week..Just imagine how much time what you can save with that, instead of farming in instances or just simply put the vp into maximum immediately as the week starts...

[riptal]

So the only thing wrong with Cataclysm was the Heroic dungeons being too hard??? I tought it was the only thing right! I dont know this guy but I already hate himThanks for your "Cataclysm is perfect" answers! Now I'm really afraid of MoP!

[cateran100]

3 dungeons for a normal is not considered good content, nor is it something I would suggest for "Anyone" to pay, same 3 vs all the others + new that had no normal setting like in Wrath was the biggest fail this game could have offered. I have also played 7 years, hated all the dungeons in Vanilla because they were time consuming. The only enjoyment I get is from a raid, dungeons are poor content fillers that shouldn't even be given the time of day for "Challenge" people who need a challenge either Raid, PVP, or go for crazy achievements. Dungeons as a whole are boring, lack luster, and the faster I can clear it the sooner I can stop wanting to request a pvp option against my own faction members for being retards.

I'm actually*grateful*for the last 3 dungeons because I can skip the entire slew of rubbish that they chucked at us from the start of this one, and even more thankful that in MoP the idea of dungeons being "normal for easy, heroic for hard" is being changed to "Normal for leveling, heroic for gearing to get into the true end game content raiding." *I also want to think you for not being snarky like most are when it comes to this apparent sensitive topic. One reason why I rarely comment back to others is because 9 times outta 10 someone is trying to pick a fight over an opinion like its a fact. =]

Just think over again about the normal dungeons..hint: there is more than 3 normal.ohh the last ones hc only..arrgh damn...shit happens...
"hated all the dungeons in Vanilla because they were time consuming" Oops..sorry,never thought some1 forced you to do them and do not quit whenever you wants...Other words: You had time for raiding and everything else, but not for instances? May i call that BS? Not to mention if some1 finds a 5 men hard, what the hell he wants in a raid?
Edit: However I blame blizzard because of the poor nonfighting, non-instances, nonraiding content..basically nothing exist in the game over the raiding (in pve ofc) As far i can see 3 things what pve ppl can do nowadays: raids, alt, farming....

[Crashdummy]

The only flaw with your logic is the raid can be stopped anywhere and continue it whenever you wants (you can lock it for the eternity..) A HEROIC instance as the name implies must be something which is HARD..that`s why it`s HEROIC and not NORMAL....And sorry..I`m not crying for example about the raids because if i don`t have TIME to play or DO IT, then it`s not my concern..(If you have just 20 mins to play a proper football match with your friends, should you lobby for the shortened matches?(down from 2x45 mins to 2x10?) Or -make it faster and easier- want to allow your team to use their hands too, not just their feet?
Edit: If I -with my poor abilities- did not find them impossible or even hard, then everybody else who did it must be a really, really bad player...I know where is my place, I`m lightyears away to be a good player, but even for me, most of the instances were medium challenge (except a few bosses or few parts partially thx to the mechanism, partially thx to my skills) Ohh in the forst time ofc most of them was "hard" or the word unknown and stranger fits more..but after a couple of times almost everything went smooth ( I remember when every group disbanded in lk, when the system put them into oculus..it was too "hard" for the majority..yeah pressing 3 buttons is kinda hard...If you take some time and read carefully what the skills says was easy to realize..it`s easy...Just most of the ppl (including you) like to be pampered...Why don`t you suggest to Blizz to automatically send via mail an epic loot to everybody in every week..Just imagine how much time what you can save with that, instead of farming in instances or just simply put the vp into maximum immediately as the week starts...

There is no flaw in my logic. Heroic doesnt mean hard, Heroic means they are harder than their normal counterparts, only that. Heroic dungeons in Wrath were harder than the normal counterparts. You are adding your definition for something that simply doesnt have that definition.

What does the posibility to stop and continue a raid has anything to do with what we are discussing here?

If i have only 20 minutes to play football with my friends, then we play a game in those 20 minutes (2x10), simply. We dont stay without playing just because someone thinks that game should only be long.

You still dont get it, right? Yes, people are worse at this game than you, MOST people found heroic dungeons at the start of Cata hard. Congratz for you not finding them hard. You are in the vast minority. MANY MORE PEOPLE than those that found it hard (that means people that didnt find them hard) found them excesively long and boring.

Shoulod the heroics be tuned to the VERY VAST SMALL MINORITY which you are part of or should them be tuned to a much bigger audience? I think they should be tuned to a bigger audience than your little elitists club.

I quitted the group every time in occulus, not because it was hard, but because i choose a class to play that class, not to play a dragon. So maybe your groups disbanded for something else than what you thought it happened, but you love to draw conclusions based on no evidence apparently. Occulus was boring, and since i dont like to play boring dungeons and the other dungeons were simply GREAT, i simply leave thegroup and queue again, because i play the game to HAVE FUN, go figure.

Most people dont like to be pampered, most people play this game TO HAVE FUN, and when the dungeons Blizzard gives to them, ARE NOT FUN then they tell Blizzard that the dungeons are not fun.

Ahh, the items sent via mail stupid argument again, i am not surprised that you make that argument. People want to play the game and have fun, they dont want a second job, and they dont want items to be sent via mail, apparently you dont have the ability to distinguish between both, which is easy for me, but its too hard for you. Maybe you should try to excersice your intellect so you can understand simple reasoning instead of just being good at WoW.

P.S: I heard its too hard to write with proper punctuation marks and using paragraphs. Different people are skilled in different things.

---------- Post added 2012-03-07 at 03:53 PM ----------

Just think over again about the normal dungeons..hint: there is more than 3 normal.ohh the last ones hc only..arrgh damn...shit happens...
"hated all the dungeons in Vanilla because they were time consuming" Oops..sorry,never thought some1 forced you to do them and do not quit whenever you wants...Other words: You had time for raiding and everything else, but not for instances? May i call that BS? Not to mention if some1 finds a 5 men hard, what the hell he wants in a raid?
Edit: However I blame blizzard because of the poor nonfighting, non-instances, nonraiding content..basically nothing exist in the game over the raiding (in pve ofc) As far i can see 3 things what pve ppl can do nowadays: raids, alt, farming....

Think again about the normal dungeons, there were only 3 lvl 85 normal dungeons hint: Throne of the tides, stonecore, vortex pinnacle normals were not lvl 85.

[zezel81]

There is no flaw in my logic. Heroic doesnt mean hard, Heroic means they are harder than their normal counterparts, only that. Heroic dungeons in Wrath were harder than the normal counterparts. You are adding your definition for something that simply doesnt have that definition.

What does the posibility to stop and continue a raid has anything to do with what we are discussing here?

If i have only 20 minutes to play football with my friends, then we play a game in those 20 minutes (2x10), simply. We dont stay without playing just because someone thinks that game should only be long.

You still dont get it, right? Yes, people are worse at this game than you, MOST people found heroic dungeons at the start of Cata hard. Congratz for you not finding them hard. You are in the vast minority. MANY MORE PEOPLE than those that found it hard (that means people that didnt find them hard) found them excesively long and boring.

Shoulod the heroics be tuned to the VERY VAST SMALL MINORITY which you are part of or should them be tuned to a much bigger audience? I think they should be tuned to a bigger audience than your little elitists club.

I quitted the group every time in occulus, not because it was hard, but because i choose a class to play that class, not to play a dragon. So maybe your groups disbanded for something else than what you thought it happened, but you love to draw conclusions based on no evidence apparently. Occulus was boring, and since i dont like to play boring dungeons and the other dungeons were simply GREAT, i simply leave thegroup and queue again, because i play the game to HAVE FUN, go figure.

Most people dont like to be pampered, most people play this game TO HAVE FUN, and when the dungeons Blizzard gives to them, ARE NOT FUN then they tell Blizzard that the dungeons are not fun.

Ahh, the items sent via mail stupid argument again, i am not surprised that you make that argument. People want to play the game and have fun, they dont want a second job, and they dont want items to be sent via mail, apparently you dont have the ability to distinguish between both, which is easy for me, but its too hard for you. Maybe you should try to excersice your intellect so you can understand simple reasoning instead of just being good at WoW.

P.S: I heard its too hard to write with proper punctuation marks and using paragraphs. Different people are skilled in different things.

---------- Post added 2012-03-07 at 03:53 PM ----------



Think again about the normal dungeons, there were only 3 lvl 85 normal dungeons hint: Throne of the tides, stonecore, vortex pinnacle normals were not lvl 85.

Yes, heroic means hard mode (google if your IQ can't define it). I am not trying to be mean just like the last guy it wrote to you. I just have to ask why would you buy a game that everything kills itself? As in foot ball you would just quit right? well same with WoW you can quit playing after 20mins (MMO you can't pause sorry). Even Blizz makes it easy ppl will still die and find it hard then it will get nerf to where the bosses just fall over. I seen to many players that do have the right gear on for their spec, no gems, no enchants, and then stand in the fire when it is bright purple. Blizz can't make ppl smarter so i guess they will just have let the boss just die. I seen LFR wipe on the first boss of DS (all dps was putting out 8k to 12k dps) I was tank with 15k dps.

[Redblade]

If i have only 20 minutes to play football with my friends, then we play a game in those 20 minutes (2x10), simply. We dont stay without playing just because someone thinks that game should only be long.

Shoulod the heroics be tuned to the VERY VAST SMALL MINORITY which you are part of or should them be tuned to a much bigger audience? I think they should be tuned to a bigger audience than your little elitists club.

And this is where the problem lies, you think it should be tuned and catered to your group that has a lack of time and or skill with no understanding that the players that don't have those issues are left with little to no content at all, sadly Blizzards metrics apparently supported the majority on that and went with just such a design. I believe that is one of the major reasons Blizzard is losing subscribers, now where will the game end up once enough of the "elitist" players have left and everything is made so convenient that you can log in 20-40min 2-3 days a week and achieve everything and gain the best rewards, to me that is as interesting as any flash game you can play in your browser, why would I subscribe to that.

[TanqueDrakkari]

PLEASE, read the GC Post Mortem. Yes, I said it!

[Crashdummy]

Yes, heroic means hard mode (google if your IQ can't define it). I am not trying to be mean just like the last guy it wrote to you. I just have to ask why would you buy a game that everything kills itself? As in foot ball you would just quit right? well same with WoW you can quit playing after 20mins (MMO you can't pause sorry). Even Blizz makes it easy ppl will still die and find it hard then it will get nerf to where the bosses just fall over. I seen to many players that do have the right gear on for their spec, no gems, no enchants, and then stand in the fire when it is bright purple. Blizz can't make ppl smarter so i guess they will just have let the boss just die. I seen LFR wipe on the first boss of DS (all dps was putting out 8k to 12k dps) I was tank with 15k dps.

Heroic means harder than a non heroic thing, heroic dungeons in Wrath WERE harder than normal. Heroic is a relative term, not an absolute one. I think you have to learn a lot of thing before talking about others IQ.

Things arent killing themselves, thats where your argunment is failing. There is a HUGE gap between things killing themslves and things beign hard to 90% of the playerbase. HUGE GAP.

---------- Post added 2012-03-08 at 09:49 AM ----------

And this is where the problem lies, you think it should be tuned and catered to your group that has a lack of time and or skill with no understanding that the players that don't have those issues are left with little to no content at all, sadly Blizzards metrics apparently supported the majority on that and went with just such a design. I believe that is one of the major reasons Blizzard is losing subscribers, now where will the game end up once enough of the "elitist" players have left and everything is made so convenient that you can log in 20-40min 2-3 days a week and achieve everything and gain the best rewards, to me that is as interesting as any flash game you can play in your browser, why would I subscribe to that.

I think heroic dungeons should be tuned so most of the playerbase dont find them frustrating, yes. You think most of the playerbase needs to be frustrated in heroic dungeons so that you can have fun in them. We think differently.

Blizzard lost the amount of subscribers they lost BECAUSE they increased difficulty from Wrath. They have the data, they know what do people leaving have done, they have the observations people leaving left in the leaving form. If people were leaving because the game is getting too easy, they wouldnt be thinking in making it easier.

This isnt a problem with having no skil, you completely missed the point.

Real hardcore people are worried about heroic raiding, not heroic dungeons. Only wannabe elitists care about how hard a 5 man heroic dungeon is.

People that log 40 mins 2-3 days a week havent asked to achieve everything in the game, you like overexxagerate things, dont you?

People logging 40 mins 2-3 days a week have the right to achieve SOMETHING, and not just pay so that you can enjoy the game while they get constantly frustrated.

if you think Wrath was a web browser game, then i feel sorry for you because you cant have an objective vision of what we are talking about here.

[Redblade]

I think heroic dungeons should be tuned so most of the playerbase dont find them frustrating, yes. You think most of the playerbase needs to be frustrated in heroic dungeons so that you can have fun in them. We think differently.

That's why there was normal/heroic, the major difference was in fact that one dropped epics and one didn't, once you stop looking at the gear as a reward but a tool to achieve what's next on the progression path it makes more sense.

Blizzard lost the amount of subscribers they lost BECAUSE they increased difficulty from Wrath. They have the data, they know what do people leaving have done, they have the observations people leaving left in the leaving form. If people were leaving because the game is getting too easy, they wouldnt be thinking in making it easier.

You have any source to back up a statement like that? I clearly said that it was just my belief that it was one of the reasons, you some how dismiss that as if you had factual knowledge, I know why I left and why some of my friends left.

This isnt a problem with having no skil, you completely missed the point.

Hence why I said and or, perhaps I should have made it more clear by saying and/or.

Real hardcore people are worried about heroic raiding, not heroic dungeons. Only wannabe elitists care about how hard a 5 man heroic dungeon is.

Hence why I quit as the heroic content was nerfed once again to make room for the 'general masses', and to say that hardcores are not allowed to care about 5man content shows how 'me me me' oriented you are, perhaps they want challenging 5mans to do outside of raiding, this is a common way of trying to argue this, the people lower on the totem pole wants what's designed for the people above them but gives no consideration to the fact that the top end content is shrinking as a consequence.

People that log 40 mins 2-3 days a week havent asked to achieve everything in the game, you like overexxagerate things, dont you?

People logging 40 mins 2-3 days a week have the right to achieve SOMETHING, and not just pay so that you can enjoy the game while they get constantly frustrated.

And that would be just fine, that's not how current game design is though is it, and a lot of people would argue that any nerf to let them have the purple was a good thing, the fact is that Blizzard continue to use the content that is designed for the people that want a challenge with appropriate reward for said challenge as additional content for the players that already had LFR and normal modes as their content.

if you think Wrath was a web browser game, then i feel sorry for you because you cant have an objective vision of what we are talking about here.

Wrath was alright bar ToC and the dragged out ICC, and don't get me wrong, non nerfed ICC heroic was alright in it self just lasted way to long, doubt anyone would disagree to that. What we are going towards if the trend continues though is the same gratification that a browser flash game would give, perhaps not the players that struggle in normal or the LFR players, the once doing well in normals and heroics are simple being robbed of their content unless they raid X amount of hours Z amount of days in the week to clear it before nerfs, literally forced to play more than they want if they want the challenge.

[Slappers]

And for many people, old cata heroics weren't challenging in mechanics or anything of the sort, it was more of a difficulty of not getting grouped with retards. Which many of us who do enjoy challenge, actually don't enjoy.

When I got grped with retards, I carried the grp, challenge accepted. Then again, I dont mind not seeing challenges from heroic, as heroics are old content for hardcore players, it was boring after TBC was done, my problem with Cata was the lack of proper new features. They were too busy revamping low level zones to invest time into wtf was supposed to happen at 85.