The new pvp system? Fair or not?

[Ronsik]

For all those who worked hard on their pvp achieves and gear and such, is it fair to completely revamp it? then again this is blizzard were talking about.

[Derpyhooves]

What new pvp system? You mean the changes coming in mists of pandaria?

[DechCJC]

Sure. If you want to see something that's 'not' fair go roll an alt, like a warlock, and do a few BGs in greens with 0 resilience. That's not fun.

[Derpyhooves]

Going to presume you mean the changes in mists since there are no major pvp changes happening before then that I am aware of.....

So totally new expansion, everyone has to level up again, get totally new gear, learn a totally new talent system, new arena season..... everyone is basically starting from scratch again so not sure what that has to do with people "who worked hard on their pvp achieves and gear"

Am I missing something?

[Algorath]

New pvp system? Please elaborate

[Delaios]

(I think) OP's talking about the baseline Defense (current resilience) and new PvP gear stats that will come in MoP. None of which have anything to do with current achievements and gear.

[Nyaldee]

Overall i welcome those changes - baseline 30% defence will provide you aren't oneshoted at the start of season, also it gives blizzard perfect tool to offset dmg outscalling defensive stats (aka they could just bump baseline defence to reduce overall burst). Introducing offensive pvp stat will go a long way of curing aids that pve gear is to pvp. I just hope they could be more creative with trinkets, getting same stuff with 13 ilvls higher stats compared to fluffy procs that pve stuff has sux.

[Deleted]

It just depends on numbers.

Let's say we have Emma the PvE'r and Peter the PvP'er. Let's say Emma is in BiS PvE gear, and Peter is in BiS PvP gear.

We can basically say players then have 3 stats: Defense, Power, and Damage. Damage is just a name for the amount of damage they do because of base stats on the gear, strength, agility, crit, whatever. Damage will be lower on PvP gear because the ilvl is lower, but power makes it do more damage to players.

So one possible scenario is as follows:

Emma: 30 Defense, 0 Power, 50 Damage
Peter: 50 Defense, 30 Power, 40 Damage

So in one attack for a baseline 100 damage:

Emma shoots Peter: 100 baseline + 0 from Power + 50 from Damage Stats - 50 from Peter's Defense = 100+0+50-50 = 100
Peter shoots Emma: 100 baseline + 30 from Power + 40 from Damage Stats - 30 from Emma's Defense = 100+30+40-40 = 140

In this scenario, PvP gear is better than PvE gear. Peter will always hit Emma harder than she hits him.

But the numbers could be like this:

Emma: 30 Defense, 0 Power, 120 Damage
Peter: 40 Defense, 20 Power, 70 Damage

Emma shoots Peter: 100 + 0 + 120 - 40 = 180
Peter shoots Emma: 100 + 20 + 70 - 30 = 160

In this scenario, PvE gear is better than PvP gear.

I hope Blizzard make it more like the first scenario, but we never know.

EDIT: Obviously the stats won't interact like this, but I believe the point stands nonetheless.
EDIT2: Also, this doesn't take into account class balance - mages for example at the moment can run with around 2k less resilience than anyone else, because they are a strong class for not getting hit.

[Deleted]

@kekkeri Are you taking in account that in PvP situations, Emma's PvE equipment will only be running at 75% effectiveness? I think that's what was said by blueposters.

[Deleted]

@kekkeri Are you taking in account that in PvP situations, Emma's PvE equipment will only be running at 75% effectiveness? I think that's what was said by blueposters.

Oh really? Can you link me? Must've missed that

[Deleted]

I think they have stated quite clearly that PvP gear will now be the best gear for PvP - period. As long as that holds true, they've gotta screw up a whole lot to make me unhappy :-)

[Kivana]

The PVP changes LOOK very good and are soooo fucking long overdue, so lets just hope that it 'fixes' PVP once and for all.

[Zeusy]

must of it looks good. I hope it plays out how they plan.

[klaps_05]

like i said in numerous times, the pvp will be close to what it is now on live - heroic gear will outweigh pvp gear in terms of damage. they will need to make defense scale REALLY good for this to balance. right now u can run tons of pve gear and get away with it.

also they said that pve will be higher ilevel than pvp - which in turn means 1) more stamina 2) more stats (for example if a pvp piece gives you 300 stam, 300 res and 300 haste, pve will give you 350 stam and 2x 350 of some other stat).

its all about how they will make defense SCALE.

[Rageadon]

it will get weird
But lets give it a try ATLEAST!

[sebakn]

I think is fair, is working for me and my paladin :P

[Korgoth]

Damage will be lower on PvP gear because the ilvl is lower, but power makes it do more damage to players.

Where are you getting that from? Are you meaning Heroic gear? Because Conquest is higher then standard PVE gear, and really almost no one gets Heroic PVE gear anyway. In fact I bet there are far more Legendary daggers then Heroic Gurths.

Damage will be lower on PvP gear because it has a pvp stat taking away from a secondary dps stat.

The whole point of the power stat really is to make burst pvp gear to replace burst pve gear but I figure it will fail anyway if they keep doing these overpowered proc items like they did for DS; unless they make the same for PVP.

[Dispersedshadow]

I think the proposed stat changes go a long way in addressing the problems as far as gear goes. But, aside from the 30% base PvP defense, the problem is that they assume gear – and since specs share some pieces of gear, I'm hopeful but skeptical that it will be enough in terms of class balance.

Since each character's amount of gear can vary, but each character above lvl 10 should have a spec – I'd prefer to see them set the balance tuning point at the spec lvl. Replace the two proposed stats on PvP gear with one "PvP Mastery" – and move the scaling point to the spec lvl with a passive PvP Mastery ability, which would primarily serve as the point where they could tweak how PvP Power and PvP Defense scale with each class and possibly adjust the base amount of those stats on certain spec, should they believe the entry barrier into max level PvP is too high for particular spec.

[Deleted]

ughhh so baaaaad

[Palliente]

Where are you getting that from? Are you meaning Heroic gear? Because Conquest is higher then standard PVE gear, and really almost no one gets Heroic PVE gear anyway. In fact I bet there are far more Legendary daggers then Heroic Gurths.

Damage will be lower on PvP gear because it has a pvp stat taking away from a secondary dps stat.

The whole point of the power stat really is to make burst pvp gear to replace burst pve gear but I figure it will fail anyway if they keep doing these overpowered proc items like they did for DS; unless they make the same for PVP.

Didn't they say that the PVP stats do not count toward item level stat point allocation?