good ol dayz of world PVP.

[Asatru]

And? It doesn't change the fact that the most ardent supporters are emotional predators. Other than for the vocal few sadists longing to get their kicks out of other's misery, it does nothing positive for the game. That it's supported doesn't make it good or right.
The sooner people realize that world pvp and the call for world pvp is damaging the game, the sooner the game can get better.
World PvP died due to battlegrounds and a desire not to be harassed. It's not casual or hardcore not to want to be harassed. If I'm on a PvP server leveling to join some friends during an off period, I don't want some mouthbreathing fail 60/70/80/85 killing my quest givers and keeping me from playing my character. Could I log on to a different one? Sure, but it doesn't make it right.

And for the record, I've leveled 8 different characters on PvP servers in every expansion and the original vanilla.

Show me on the doll where the bad PVPer touched you.

[Deleted]

rofld at the doll post

[Stanton Biston]

Yet us who gank are the selfish assholes? Please, it's not our fault you picked PvP for PvE reasons. We knew what we were getting into and you always had an alternative.

And yet it is. Why not play on a server more appropriate for your gameplay needs?

You misunderstand me. As do most of the PvP server kiddos posting in this thread.

It doesn't bother me that the best you can aspire to is lopsided battles in the world because you lack the time, dedication or skill to participate in some form of competitive PvP. Nor does it bother me when some scrub tries to gank me because most scrubs don't roll in 2200 or heroic gear.

The reason why I think it's bad for the game is that the only thing PvP servers and WoW's form of world PvP offers is ganking and zergs. The only people that benefit from it are the tiny, tiny niche of vocal, unskilled sadomasochists that can't do anything better. It doesn't create a sense of 'war in the world', it doesn't create a sense of faction conflict and it doesn't add to the engagement of the playerbase.

World PvP only offers, especially for new players, an affirmation that there are people out there with nothing better to do than harass others, especially those who are unable to do anything about it.

If some new person is playing and enjoying themselves until they hit 11 or 20 and then find themselves in situations where the only thing they can do is run and hide, you guys think they'll want to keep playing? That they'll have the same sadomasochistic deviance to push through past all the harassing players and become one themselves? "That's what they signed up for," you say. "They should know better," you say. Not if they're new.

It's so glaringly obvious how the primary motivation for the 'world PvPers' (aka gankers and griefers) in this thread are not motivated by anything other than a burning desire to ruin someone else's day. That's awesome guys.

Stay classy.

[ketamine]

rofld at the doll post lol

[varkar]

Because it shouldn't be in the game at all.

PvP is fundamentally fighting sapient thinking opponents, as opposed to scripted mobs (which in WoW and other main MMORPGs today are either low or zero AI depending on how defines the term).

World PvP is doing so outside of PvP being moved only into small boxed areas ("locked in a closet" so to speak) to fight over the exact same few small instanced battlegrounds hundreds of times each if one plays for long.

The rest for benefits or tradeoffs is a matter of the game design.

Desiring proper implementation of world PvP on PvP servers is hardly just a matter of being "sadistic." PvE servers are for both those who don't PvP and for those who only want instanced non-world PvP, as you can queue for battlegrounds from a PvE server.

WoW gives no cloned loot or gold and no experience for participating in world PvP. It combines that with some opponents having orders of magnitude more effective health than others and ensures spells from much lower level parties essentially always miss against them (instead of properly auto-scaling effective health in PvP so as not to have high levels just one-shot lowbies).

If WoW developers designed PvE raiding the same way, including having it give zero loot and thus not contribute to character progression which is at the heart of MMORPG play, raiding would be less popular too.

A "death" in world PvP can "harm" someone choosing to roll on a PvP server to the degree that it can mean several dozen seconds or whatever delay rezzing before they get back to the experience and loot gain of PvE leveling, but that spice of danger to the world is no more universal "harm" than there would be universal "benefit" in having a game which gave everyone vast XP and loot at first logon without any risk of "death" setbacks. Conflict, challenge, and "danger" is part of what makes a good game to many people, much like playing many non-MMORPG games with a no-death cheat code causes sooner getting bored with them.

Some people don't fully understand relevant matters, even in the closest PvE analogues. In Cataclysm, WoW developers moved Hogger to an instanced zone, but by doing so they misunderstood what made Hogger special in the first place, why Hogger was popular or famous in a way: being a lowbie mob out in the outside world which was actually challenging, one adding a spice of danger to the surrounding area because you could accidentally aggro Hogger, because you had to watch your back in the area.

[arboachg]

World PvP only offers, especially for new players, an affirmation that there are people out there with nothing better to do than harass others, especially those who are unable to do anything about it.

There's always PvE servers, you know.

[kosechi]

It's so glaringly obvious how the primary motivation for the 'world PvPers' (aka gankers and griefers) in this thread are not motivated by anything other than a burning desire to ruin someone else's day. That's awesome guys.

Stay classy.

actually these days. world pvp is a reaffirmation that there are actually other people out there playing the game. i was leveling my millionth mage through barrens when i suddenly found myself sapped! a rogue! some one else was leveling! i then had about an hour of fun chasing said rogue around and killing him. i haven't had so much fun in game in a long time! i actually switched onto one of my alliance alts and thanked him for the fun afterwards.

i do a fair amount of organized rated pvp. i play holy, a spec i intensely dislike to get rbg invites, and i've hit 2.2k+ every season i've arenaed. i would still rather run around and organize counter gank squads and do world defense, i get to socialize with people of both factions instead of just sitting in a box and LoS mages.

a number of my best friends on my server i made because i either saved them from being ganked, or because i ganked them, world pvp is as much about community as it is about killing the enemy.

i get the impression that most people who complain about world pvp don't actually find pvp fun. and if thats the case. don't roll on pvp servers.

[poorkilla]

There shouldnt be any pve servers. to increase world pvp turn all pve servers to pvp that would increase world pvp. dont like it go play hello kitty online. This is the world of WARcraft

[Feranor]

You misunderstand me. As do most of the PvP server kiddos posting in this thread.

It doesn't bother me that the best you can aspire to is lopsided battles in the world because you lack the time, dedication or skill to participate in some form of competitive PvP. Nor does it bother me when some scrub tries to gank me because most scrubs don't roll in 2200 or heroic gear.

The reason why I think it's bad for the game is that the only thing PvP servers and WoW's form of world PvP offers is ganking and zergs. The only people that benefit from it are the tiny, tiny niche of vocal, unskilled sadomasochists that can't do anything better. It doesn't create a sense of 'war in the world', it doesn't create a sense of faction conflict and it doesn't add to the engagement of the playerbase.

World PvP only offers, especially for new players, an affirmation that there are people out there with nothing better to do than harass others, especially those who are unable to do anything about it.

If some new person is playing and enjoying themselves until they hit 11 or 20 and then find themselves in situations where the only thing they can do is run and hide, you guys think they'll want to keep playing? That they'll have the same sadomasochistic deviance to push through past all the harassing players and become one themselves? "That's what they signed up for," you say. "They should know better," you say. Not if they're new.

It's so glaringly obvious how the primary motivation for the 'world PvPers' (aka gankers and griefers) in this thread are not motivated by anything other than a burning desire to ruin someone else's day. That's awesome guys.

Stay classy.

Even if a proper implementation of World PvP would somehow result in this gankfest - which seem unlikely, as it didn't happen before except for daily quest hubs and TM/SS - there are still PvE servers. To begin with, one of the reasons why PvP sucks in this game is that almost everyone on PvP servers is a PvE player with zero interest in engaging in any form of World PvP.

Besides, sadism is already the default in instanced PvP. At least in World PvP there's a chance of negative feedback for the griefers, not so in Arena or BGs. I was still using VanasKoS until the end of WotLK because it was useful. I would add people with a little note like ("interferes with 1v1 fights", "coward", "sadist" or something similar) and in some cases entire guilds because apparently they required all of their members to be antisocial douches. I stopped using it because I no longer meet anyone not deserving of being killed on sight.

You can hardly make the situation worse.

[arboachg]

i get the impression that most people who complain about world pvp don't actually find pvp fun. and if thats the case. don't roll on pvp servers.

A thousand times this. If you want the choice of PvP, it's there in the form of BG queuing or the "/pvp" command. In all the claims of those of us who do enjoy open world pvp "ruining others good time" lies a subtle hypocrisy; you always had your playstyle catered to. Stop trying to take ours away.

[Stanton Biston]

You can hardly make the situation worse.

I realize that I'm coming off as a bit militant, but seeing as how I'm now afforded the freedom, I'm probably over embracing it.

And I'll address some of the other issues, but it's not about, 'Oh, well, there's always PvE servers.' Sure, back when PvE servers were actually better than PvP servers, but now (at least in the US) the biggest and most progressed are all PvP.

But if you're the faction in charge of the server, it's totally safe. Level Horde on Illidan and the Alliance has to be suicidal to want to attack a lowbie because 10 Hordies will come to their defense. Level an Ally and you'd have to be a masochist because the idea of catching an alliance out in the wild is so novel on a server that's 20:1 horde (WoWProgess numbers, not mine).

In all honesty, leveling Horde on Illidan is probably subject to less griefing than leveling a character on a balance PvE server.

It all comes down to what gets people out in the wild. Daily Quest Hubs do it, but it encourages griefing. Faction imbalances and zergs prevent things like the EPL towers from rewarding loot.

So you really need a skillmatched, population controlled environment that rewards small team play with a large number of players present over balls of players.

Fuck. I might actually decide to play GW2. That's their RvR model.

A thousand times this. If you want the choice of PvP, it's there in the form of BG queuing or the "/pvp" command. In all the claims of those of us who do enjoy open world pvp "ruining others good time" lies a subtle hypocrisy; you always had your playstyle catered to. Stop trying to take ours away.

Pederasty was pederasty until it was pedophilia. Just because it's what you want to do doesn't make it good for the game as a whole.

[arboachg]

Sure, back when PvE servers were actually better than PvP servers, but now (at least in the US) the biggest and most progressed are all PvP.

Shouldn't be my problem that you can't organize a decent PvE guild on the numerous PvE servers out there.

Pederasty was pederasty until it was pedophilia. Just because it's what you want to do doesn't make it good for the game as a whole.

You really went there?

[Stanton Biston]

Shouldn't be my problem that you can't organize a decent PvE guild on the numerous PvE servers out there.

You continue to think my issue with PvP servers is personal. It's not.

You really went there?

I did. In some ways, I equate them equally. Both are predatory.

[arboachg]

I did. In some ways, I equate them equally. Both are predatory.

And one was used as a basis for a category of server. Why neuter a style of gameplay that most who originally picked those severs enjoy because you got picked on out in the game world? Never forget, the choice was always there (and further were added as time went on - pvp -> pve server transfers, for example) for you to play the way you wanted to, but you chose to play with your friends on a server type you really don't seem to enjoy.

You think ganking is bad? People used to group up and gank the ganker. Now they compare it to pedophilia.

[kosechi]

And I'll address some of the other issues, but it's not about, 'Oh, well, there's always PvE servers.' Sure, back when PvE servers were actually better than PvP servers, but now (at least in the US) the biggest and most progressed are all PvP.

ohhhhh. so this is the issue. you don't like risking being ganked for the sake of a better progressed server? well at that point i just say. 'suck it up' and don't leave your home cities. if you are transferring servers for the sake of progression you probably are going to have to make some sacrifices in terms of your personal comfort. even before world pvp died it was pretty easy to avoid.

But if you're the faction in charge of the server, it's totally safe. Level Horde on Illidan and the Alliance has to be suicidal to want to attack a lowbie because 10 Hordies will come to their defense. Level an Ally and you'd have to be a masochist because the idea of catching an alliance out in the wild is so novel on a server that's 20:1 horde (WoWProgess numbers, not mine).

In all honesty, leveling Horde on Illidan is probably subject to less griefing than leveling a character on a balance PvE server.

my server used to be one of the most balanced servers around. its currently very very horde dominated. i have freinds who went alliance just so there would be more people for them to gank.

[Mormolyce]

People just rush to endgame content and spend all their time AFK in Org/SW. That's what really killed world PVP.

World PVP is hideously imbalanced in its very nature in any case. Unless they go for some kind of extreme redesign, probably better that it's rare.

- Tower ruins in EPL
- LOLSand in Silithus
- Halaa etc.
- Wintergrasp
- Tol Barad

Don't forget the two daily hubs in Grizzly Hills that nobody ever went to.

[Stanton Biston]

And one was used as a basis for a category of server.

History and tradition aren't good reasons to base game design around.

Why neuter a style of gameplay that most who originally picked those severs enjoy because you got picked on out in the game world?

First, you presume to speak for 'most people' as if you do and as if they are a significant number.

Once again, you seem convinced that my motivation stems from being picked on. I can only surmise that despite my claims to the otherwise, it is beyond what you are capable of imagining to see someone against PvP Servers as a whole who was not harassed. Probably because in your mind there are two types of people, gankers and the gankees. And the gankers would never speak out against ganking because they enjoy it so much.

I spent the first 3 years of my WoW career ganking people as a Feral Druid and later as a Rogue. I was fortunate enough to have people feed me gear and when the green dragons came out, feed me better feral gear. I was in a high end raiding group (top 50 or something) on my Rogue. Griefing people by kiting world bosses while groups set up so my group could kill it. Kiting world bosses into capitals when it was still possible. Did it all.

Doesn't make it good or right. Doesn't mean I wasn't being a sadist or 'troll.' My Rogue IS a Troll. That was intentional.

But my perspective on it is that it's not a constructive format as I've outlined above.

Never forget, the choice was always there (and further were added as time went on - pvp -> pve server transfers, for example) for you to play the way you wanted to, but you chose to play with your friends on a server type you really don't seem to enjoy.

I love PvP. Every form of it. I love World of Warcraft. It's a great game. But as long as people think 'World PvP' in the form of things like PvP Servers and godonlyknowswhat World PvP in MoP, cool ideas like GW2's RvR will continue to be overlooked.

You think ganking is bad? People used to group up and gank the ganker. Now they compare it to pedophilia.

Ganking the ganker perpetuates the cycle. I won't argue that ganking has the same long lasting emotional trauma on it's victims as pedophilia, but at least pedophiles don't derive pleasure from their victim's misery. In some ways, the psychology of a ganker is far more aberrant.

[Kivana]

Sometime near the end of TBC i was bored so i took my Alliance mage to the gates of Org to say hi to the duelling Hordies. So i stroll up, make a campfire and sit to watch the carnage. Im there exactly 2 minutes and no joke, i have 30-40 hordies all round me in pvp gear and wanting blood.

I had just missed an Alliance raid by 5 minutes or so and was greeted by the counter attack. Im not sure if they thought i was watching them or teasing, so i made for the hills with half the Hordies following me. Next thing i see is the Alliance raid balls deep in the small town near Org.

Spent a good hour there and dying to the Hordies i inadvertantly led there, fun times

Sadly world PVP is dead and finished thanks to the OP guards and other factors.

[arboachg]

Ganking the ganker perpetuates the cycle. I won't argue that ganking has the same long lasting emotional trauma on it's victims as pedophilia, but at least pedophiles don't derive pleasure from their victim's misery. In some ways, the psychology of a ganker is far more aberrant.

It's a video game. If you are miserable with getting killed while questing, maybe you (just to be clear, "you" as in anyone who thinks this way, not specifically Mr. Stanton Biston <The Lightbringer> of Corvallis, Oregon) should either play a different game OR transfer to another server? PvP, truly, isn't for you if you can't handle getting killed while questing.

Should I refer to the battle.net post again?

---------- Post added 2012-03-13 at 05:06 PM ----------

Sometime near the end of TBC i was bored so i took my Alliance mage to the gates of Org to say hi to the duelling Hordies. So i stroll up, make a campfire and sit to watch the carnage. Im there exactly 2 minutes and no joke, i have 30-40 hordies all round me in pvp gear and wanting blood.

From time to time my friends and I would make lvl 1 Alliance rogues and travel all the way to the gates of Org to wait on duelers. Whoever lost would frequently get killed by our rogues mashing SS. Of course we'd die, but we'd run back and sit as ghosts waiting for the duel to be over and would repeat the process. Another time, with a different set of Alliance alts (we had a Ret and Holy Pally), would go to Razor Hill and the road to Org and would gank the hell out of everyone. Mind you, it was a Horde zone and the lowbies willingly attacked us and enabled their flags and it created a few hour long brawl with them bringing their own mains. Our pallies were in the range of 40-50 and, at that time, could actually survive a decent amount of time against the occasional 60 they'd bring by.

[kosechi]

Ganking the ganker perpetuates the cycle. I won't argue that ganking has the same long lasting emotional trauma on it's victims as pedophilia, but at least pedophiles don't derive pleasure from their victim's misery. In some ways, the psychology of a ganker is far more aberrant.

speaking as some one who has worked in the healthcare industry for the majority of her career. all i can say to this statement is. are you fucking insane or are you just trying to troll this thread?