since someone mentioned KONY...lets see what some americans believe about this.

[Deleted]

Well, if you want to go to the extremes... I'm just going to leave this right here.*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Soros

Disregard PAC, it's a little kid to this guy. Oh yea, you don't really hear about him on the mainsteam media often huh? Wait, you've heard of Occupy Wallstreet I'm sure. Well he's one of the thinktanks behind it.

The most I've heard is that he's some sort of liberal boogeyman to scare conservatives with. I'm not clear what terrible things he's actually *done* though, beyond donating to thinktanks and politicians, and saying that unregulated capitalism doesn't always work very well(no kidding George).

[Jaxi]

Maher never called all catholics pedophiles.

He MAY have called all catholic priests pedophiles, which obviously isn't true.


Maher comes down HARD on both sides though. That's why I like him. When the democrats do/say something stupid, he is all over it. He also has representatives from both sides of the aisle on his panel all the time, unlike a lot of other shows where a left-wing host will have all dems all the time or a right wing host will have all repubs all the time. He also doesn't get belligerent with guests who have differing opinions.

I said I wouldn't respond on him anymore, but since you don't believe me...

If you have a few hundred followers and you let some of them molest children, they call you a cult leader. If you have a billion, they call you "Pope."

It's like if you can't pay your mortgage, you're a deadbeat, but if you can't pay a million mortgages, you're Bear Stearns, and we bail you out. And that's who the Catholic Church is, the Bear Stearns of organized pedophilia.

He is most certainly calling all catholics pedophiles. The guy is an arrogant, condescending, intolerant wackjob. That's why I put him in there with Rush. I actually find it interesting how some can condone Bill Maher's words but condemn Rush Limbaugh's comments. It seems like a double standard to me.

Here he calls religion a neurological disorder: http://jdstone.org/cr/files/billmaheronreligion.html
Now tell me how the shit he says is any better than when Rush called the woman a slut? Bill Maher is the very definition of a fanatic: one who will never change his mind, and never change the subject.

[Palliente]

Quite a good read indeed but on this post we are talking about the position of a person that affects many,the reason i started this topic was to give an idea of what prominent people think in a country that criticizes some foreign enemy.And the moment i stated that he is a prominent figure we changed the topic to if he is or not.Also sorry but if you have facts from both sides of the coin that agree on something,then you must be stupid not to understand that its that way(that is unless you have actual facts to fight that opinion)In the article i noticed that the examples were ones that could target different groups of people and match their mediate beliefs.(science,health,political ideas etc)But in this topic we are to see if a person is as powerful as he is made to look from media that follow both democrats and republicans(even thought the topic didn't started for that reason)

I'm sorry. I read this through four times and I don't get what you're saying.

I don't know who you're apologizing to about the facts from both sides of the coin. Also, the coin analogy is not a good one because there are more than two opinions, something that is lost in the American two-party system. It's quite common for both the repubs and the dems to be "wrong" about something.

---------- Post added 2012-03-08 at 10:22 PM ----------

I said I wouldn't respond on him anymore, but since you don't believe me...


He is most certainly calling all catholics pedophiles. The guy is an arrogant, condescending, intolerant wackjob. That's why I put him in there with Rush. I actually find it interesting how some can condone Bill Maher's words but condemn Rush Limbaugh's comments. It seems like a double standard to me.

You have misinterpreted the statement in a way that corresponds to your beliefs. This is not uncommon. Let's look at it again.

If you have a few hundred followers, and some (of those followers) molest children, they call you a cult leader.

If you have a billion (followers, and some of them molest children) they call you "Pope".

He is not saying that all catholics are pedophiles.

Here he calls religion a neurological disorder: http://jdstone.org/cr/files/billmaheronreligion.html

Religion fits all the criteria of a neurological disorder. If you aren't a person of faith, it may appear to be that way.

I'm not weighing in on either side, because I simply don't know.

Now tell me how the shit he says is any better than when Rush called the woman a slut? Bill Maher is the very definition of a fanatic: one who will never change his mind, and never change the subject.

Well in the example you gave about the pope, it's definitely snarky and derogatory. It's also true.

As far as calling religion a neurological disorder, again that's pretty snarky and derogatory. Religion is such a taboo subject here though, that I don't want to get into it. I'd be happy to take it offline or to PM's if you want to discuss it?

[Twiddly]

You compared an ultra-right wing talk show host to a mass child murdering, rape supporting warlord. You completely lost any credibility.

[NeutralGuy]

How is Maddow in the same category as these 3? Yes she espouses a very liberal ideology, but her show is always reasoned and measured. She also doesn't spit out all the vitriol that separate those 3.

sure she does, she just does it with a smile.

---------- Post added 2012-03-08 at 02:35 PM ----------

the more and more i watch tv the more i prefer to get my news from stewart and colbert.

[Lazarusx]

Conservative media had nothing to do with the Republican party. They aren't taken any more serious than Jon Stewart and Steven Colbert by politicians (simply a hoop to jump through to establish popularity). The programs do manage to misguide and misinform millions of people on a regular basis but are no more harmful than your average news program both in information and bias.

[Fuzzzie]

You compared an ultra-right wing talk show host to a mass child murdering, rape supporting warlord. You completely lost any credibility.

I was thinking something similar.

[antonatsis]

You compared an ultra-right wing talk show host to a mass child murdering, rape supporting warlord. You completely lost any credibility.

if you are talking about me iam not comparing them,iam saying that the one supports the other.

@paliente,sorry sometimes i get sidetracked :P and since its not my native language it gets all confusing to read what i say :P anyway.What i want to say is that we are talking about whether a guy has to much power or not in a political party and people from both parties say he has and actually doing damage to that party as simple as that,you can argue with that since its not some political or religious idea that you want to defend.

[Roose]

He is most certainly calling all catholics pedophiles. The guy is an arrogant, condescending, intolerant wackjob. That's why I put him in there with Rush. I actually find it interesting how some can condone Bill Maher's words but condemn Rush Limbaugh's comments. It seems like a double standard to me.

Here he calls religion a neurological disorder: http://jdstone.org/cr/files/billmaheronreligion.html
Now tell me how the shit he says is any better than when Rush called the woman a slut? Bill Maher is the very definition of a fanatic: one who will never change his mind, and never change the subject.

He never called all catholics pedophiles. "some of them molest children" that is a fact. Some catholic priests molest children and the catholic church tried to sweep it under the rug. Simple as that. Personally, I would never be OK with anyone in charge of any group trying to keep a lid on such horrendous activities.

Rush ignorantly called a woman that he does not know a slut. His ignorance of a basic concept was enough to verbally assault some woman. All because he is an idiot. Please find Maher spouting ignorance. You may not like what he says, but that does not mean that it is not backed with sound logic.

Please, cite any examples of Maher being a fanatic. Using logic and reason to form an opinion that a lot of people find offensive is not being a fanatic. Ya, facts and logic scare the hell out of the super religious. But who is the fanatic when one bases their stance on reason and the other goes solely on faith?

[Maneo]

Maybe I'm just biased because I am a Christian Republican (everything Bill Maher hates most in this life), but the man's anti-religious rhetoric is appalling. Don't get me wrong, Rush calling that girl a slut was inappropriate, but Bill called all Catholics pedophiles, so I don't think it is too much of a stretch to put them in the same category. At any rate I try to ignore both of them to maintain my sanity.

Except Rush at least did apologize...

I would pay to see a debate between Dennis Miller and Bill Maher .... would be funny and informative... I think Dennis would come out on top though.

[Roose]

Except Rush at least did apologize...

I would pay to see a debate between Dennis Miller and Bill Maher .... would be funny and informative... I think Dennis would come out on top though.

I am sure that sponsors pulling out had no impact on his apology. Sorry, just can't ever believe a single thing from that guy. He is one of the main causes of polarization in this country. It is his mission to create as much of a divide as possible between liberals and conservatives. Goebles would be impressed.

Now the old HBO Dennis Miller show was something else. So much quality and too smart for his own good. He made waves on that show too. The Norm MacDonald episode on smoking is still in my head as one of the best moments in TV history. His show was a great combination of witty humor and politics. I miss that show.

[titan972]

Any person that knows how politics works will know that,there is no good side and bad side...its always the lesser evil one.Since we cant have immediate democracy,we cant be sure about anyone and anything...thats why most of the time we choose to vote based on a person.In my eyes(i believe that i am a bit conservative but on the left)the democrats seem as any political party that is widely acknowledged here in Europe and the republicans(at this point in time)are just bat shit crazy.The problem with the 2 party system is that its either "they" or "us" for example.A gun owner that believes he has a right to bear arms will have the same re-presenter that some stupid red neck idiot(no offence to red necks in the forums,i know the difference between a stupid and a decent person that happens to like the way of life that he learned from his small town or city or what ever) has that believe that "i have the gun i make the rules" .Also at this point it time in the GOP people that actually pay the bills are either extremists or plain crazy.

If you look back on the history of the US(i am a history freak :P )you will see that the movements that occurred in the US in the past century shaped the world as a whole for a better place...the thing is that for some reason around the 60s you guys lost to the far right(thanks to the fear of communism) and since that time your country keep losing the hard fought liberties you had earned from all those years back,with the final nail in the coffin being 9/11 that lead to a decade of dark ages in your country,you might not have noticed it but it was there...with the patriot act making the beginning and NDAA and all those weird laws that you guys pass the last year.I hope for you guys that Obama wins the next election just for the extremist in GOP to lose their footing so the next candidate to be some technocrat or someone that actually knows what happens in your country and not the jokes you have now because if that wont happen then your journey to police state will be finished.That is of course as long as the democrats don't turn the country in a police state(because you never know :P )

Couple of European misconceptions about America that have to be addressed right here...

1. Not all that is good about America has come from the democrats, nor do they have a monopoly on compassion/intelligence in our country. Very often I'd say the opposite.
2. The last decade has been tough - but I don't think many people would go so far as to say it was a "dark age". We remain a prosperous people, though you may be surprised to learn that a "dark age" is where many Americans think Obama and the democrats are taking us.
3. The 60's were an example of extreme liberalism which most Americans have a great distaste for - I think you can attribute that more to the rise of the republicans.
4. Our civil liberties have been doing just fine and will continue to be so. Given how precious they are to Americans, you can expect a massive outcry and backlash any time the perception is that they are threatened....just look at the recent Obama vs. Catholics fiasco.
5. The patriot act, in fact, was given its name by members of congress - republican and democrat. President Bush said that he disapproved of the acts name change because it implied that people who didn't support it were...unpatriotic. Additionally, as someone who works for our government, I can speak to the absolutely ridiculous measures of the bill designed to protect individual rights. There's plenty of misinformation about what this bill actually does - look up the bill for yourself and I think you may be surprised.

6. I hope Obama and the democrats lose because frankly, I think they are trying to turn parts of our country into a police state....where anyone who disagrees with their philosophy and rule is punished. More than that though, they seem to want us to become more like Europe...and that's one thing that I and many others will absolutely not abide. Europe may be a nice place to visit....but I'd never want to live there, or turn America into just another mediocre socialist democracy.

---------- Post added 2012-03-09 at 01:43 AM ----------

He never called all catholics pedophiles. "some of them molest children" that is a fact. Some catholic priests molest children and the catholic church tried to sweep it under the rug. Simple as that. Personally, I would never be OK with anyone in charge of any group trying to keep a lid on such horrendous activities.

Rush ignorantly called a woman that he does not know a slut. His ignorance of a basic concept was enough to verbally assault some woman. All because he is an idiot. Please find Maher spouting ignorance. You may not like what he says, but that does not mean that it is not backed with sound logic.

Please, cite any examples of Maher being a fanatic. Using logic and reason to form an opinion that a lot of people find offensive is not being a fanatic. Ya, facts and logic scare the hell out of the super religious. But who is the fanatic when one bases their stance on reason and the other goes solely on faith?

I'm very spiritual person, not what I would call super religious, but facts and logic don't scare me....how about you stop making sweeping and pointless generalizations.

You're only defending Maher because you agree with many of his positions. If you were truly objective I'd think you could even say that Bill is probably more unreasonable and fanatical than Rush. Rush Limbaugh actually apologized for what he said...give me one damn example where Bill Maher has done that. He hasn't...not once, but you're still so deluded on his koolaid that you'll defend any ridiculous thing he says and attack any reasonable thing that Rush does. You sir, are exactly why people can no longer have a reasoned and civil debate.

[semaphore]

Except Rush at least did apologize...

Because everyone can tell that apology was soooooo sincere and not in any way forced by his sponsors abandoning him faster than rats flee a sinking ship.

[Maneo]

If I was going to compare anyone it wouldn't be Rush to Maher...

It would be Rush to Michael Moore... both fat slobs pushing a agenda, and manipulating truth to there own ends.

Dennis Miller is more the opposite of Maher both are comedians... and both have become quasi political figures...

Personally I like Dennis Miller more... seems more objective... and less if you don't believe what I do your a fucking idiot like Maher is.

[titan972]

Because everyone can tell that apology was soooooo sincere and not in any way forced by his sponsors abandoning him faster than rats flee a sinking ship.

So what does that say exactly....that he has sponsors who care about him keeping a civil tone? Bill Maher on the other hand continues to say far worse things about Christians/conservatives but the Obama administration is perfectly willing to allow him to fund their reelection campaign. I love how you dismiss any good thing a conservative thinker does as meaningless...liberal hypocrisy and stupidity at its finest....

[Maneo]

Because everyone can tell that apology was soooooo sincere and not in any way forced by his sponsors abandoning him faster than rats flee a sinking ship.

No need to be sarcastic .... I never said it was but he did apologize...

Not that I am a fan of hers but I have never heard the left apologize for calling Palin a "cunt" or saying horrible things about her children... Personally children should be off limits ... what if people started saying horrible things about Obamas daughter ... there would be a up roar....

What I don't like is the extreme double standard...

I believe everyone has the right to free speech .. even if I don't agree with them... but left or right should be held to the same standards.

[semaphore]

I'm very spiritual person, not what I would call super religious, but facts and logic don't scare me....how about you stop making sweeping and pointless generalizations. <snip> but you're still so deluded on his koolaid that you'll defend any ridiculous thing he says and attack any reasonable thing that Rush does. You sir, are exactly why people can no longer have a reasoned and civil debate.

How about you actually respond to what was said instead of feigning outrage at supposed "sweeping generalisation" that no one made? Roose specifically wrote the "super religious" which you claimed you are not. Making grand but vague attacks on your opponents without actually addressing the points they raised is the real reason civil debates are on a decline.

You're only defending Maher because you agree with many of his positions. If you were truly objective I'd think you could even say that Bill is probably more unreasonable and fanatical than Rush. Rush Limbaugh actually apologized for what he said...give me one damn example where Bill Maher has done that. He hasn't...not once,

Being forced into an apology doesn't make a person reasonable or not fanatical in any way. That is not a valid criteria for debating which is is more unreasonable.

[Maneo]

Liberal mind set

We need to love and respect all cultures and religions - Except Christianity

Believes in Freedom of Speech - As long as it doesn't contradict what the left believes

All Corporations are evil - Borderline religious devotion to Apple and Starbucks

Protests against the 1% - Except Maher, Michael Moore, Pro Athletes, Movie Stars, and Billionaire Democratic politicians

Celebrates Diversity - Unless you are a straight white, conservative male

Hates Capitalism - Goes to a private liberal arts college, and will make a buck at the first opportunity

who is hypocritical ???

[Kasierith]

No need to be sarcastic .... I never said it was but he did apologize...

Not that I am a fan of hers but I have never heard the left apologize for calling Palin a "cunt" or saying horrible things about her children... Personally children should be off limits ... what if people started saying horrible things about Obamas daughter ... there would be a up roar....

What I don't like is the extreme double standard...

I believe everyone has the right to free speech .. even if I don't agree with them... but left or right should be held to the same standards.

He didn't apologize. He was forced to make a statement to avoid having all of his financial supporters abandon him.. you really think that he was sorry about anything that he said? It's like the old saying goes.. "don't be sorry that you did something wrong. Be sorry that you got caught." It doesn't matter what political side he's on, he's an extremist.
Wasn't it Beck who went after Obama's daughter? And then rationalized it away after? Though, if he had to apologize every time he insulted someone, that would actually solve the problem because he would no longer have time for insults.
Right to free speech is government. It doesn't mean that another citizen can't attack your words.
Also, why is it that people are constantly pushing "Right vs left" in topics such as this? Looking in as someone not in either group.. its like you want to tear your country apart.

[semaphore]

No need to be sarcastic .... I never said it was but he did apologize...

So what? What was your point? It doesn't make an ounce of difference that he faked an apology to keep his sponsors.

Not that I am a fan of hers but I have never heard the left apologize for calling Palin a "cunt" or saying horrible things about her children... Personally children should be off limits ... what if people started saying horrible things about Obamas daughter ... there would be a up roar....

There is a big difference here. Fluke is a private citizen. Sarah Palin is a public figure. For a fair comparison, has anyone actually ever publically called Obama's daughter a "slut" or similar without causing a uproar? Or is that just a baseless claim that you are asserting?

Also I'm pretty sure whoever called Sarah Palin that got into trouble too. Whether or not they were forced into apologising doesn't mean anything though.