1. #221
    Mechagnome Ridesdel's Avatar
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    Hokay! Allow me to say what I'm thinking here!
    First the known:
    Ichigo's father was obviously a shinigami of of one sort or another
    IIRC Ichigo's reiryoku caused Orihime and Chad to gain powers somewhat akin to the people with Fullbring
    Ichigo has hollow powers because he had actually partially transformed into a hollow after he lost his powers the first time
    Ichigo has not used his hollow powers since before the fullbring arc
    Now the unknown:
    Ichigo's mother
    True source of Ichigo's powers


    Now my theory!
    In the beginning when Rukia awakened his spiritual powers they manifested in shinigami form because she used her Zampakto to awaken them, his affinity for being a shinigami being helped along by his father. Had they awakened on their own, they would have most likely manifested either as a fullbring, or quincy powers. Because of Ichigo's enormous reiryoku he was able to reawaken his shinigami powers to overcome the hollow transformation, only because he was reaching for them, IIRC there where other strings he could have followed aside from the shinigami one. So upto the fullbring arc he had always been reaching for only his shinigami powers. Now lets just put fullbring aside for now as it was only a plot device to give Ichigo his powers back without doing the same thing with separating the sould from the body again, like Uruhara did. The only way for Ichigo to get out of that jail he was in between worlds would have been to do 2 things, awaken a new power, or use his hollow form, but as he has not used his hollow powers in quite a while I think Kubo forgot about them. So that leaves us with one option left, new power. But Kubo doesn't want a completely new power, most of Ichigo's powers have already been seen in one form or another. So for the new power, you have Kido, or you have Quincy powers. As Ichigo is not the type to recite long lines of poetry for an attack, nor has he been trained in Kido, that just leaves Quincy powers, which would make more sense for breaking out of a Quincy spell. Now since he says to take Ichigo back and they can resurect him as one of them, it leads me to believe that there is some higher connection between Quincy and Shinigami, most likely that Quincy are actually an evolved form/different type of shinigami that came about when a few of the VERY old shinigami decided something a little more drastic had to be done about hollows.

    Well that's it for my ramblings, hope you don't hate me so much!

  2. #222
    Immortal Destil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ridesdel View Post
    Hokay! Allow me to say what I'm thinking here!
    First the known:
    Ichigo's father was obviously a shinigami of of one sort or another
    IIRC Ichigo's reiryoku caused Orihime and Chad to gain powers somewhat akin to the people with Fullbring
    Ichigo has hollow powers because he had actually partially transformed into a hollow after he lost his powers the first time
    Ichigo has not used his hollow powers since before the fullbring arc
    Now the unknown:
    Ichigo's mother
    True source of Ichigo's powers


    Now my theory!
    In the beginning when Rukia awakened his spiritual powers they manifested in shinigami form because she used her Zampakto to awaken them, his affinity for being a shinigami being helped along by his father. Had they awakened on their own, they would have most likely manifested either as a fullbring, or quincy powers. Because of Ichigo's enormous reiryoku he was able to reawaken his shinigami powers to overcome the hollow transformation, only because he was reaching for them, IIRC there where other strings he could have followed aside from the shinigami one. So upto the fullbring arc he had always been reaching for only his shinigami powers. Now lets just put fullbring aside for now as it was only a plot device to give Ichigo his powers back without doing the same thing with separating the sould from the body again, like Uruhara did. The only way for Ichigo to get out of that jail he was in between worlds would have been to do 2 things, awaken a new power, or use his hollow form, but as he has not used his hollow powers in quite a while I think Kubo forgot about them. So that leaves us with one option left, new power. But Kubo doesn't want a completely new power, most of Ichigo's powers have already been seen in one form or another. So for the new power, you have Kido, or you have Quincy powers. As Ichigo is not the type to recite long lines of poetry for an attack, nor has he been trained in Kido, that just leaves Quincy powers, which would make more sense for breaking out of a Quincy spell. Now since he says to take Ichigo back and they can resurect him as one of them, it leads me to believe that there is some higher connection between Quincy and Shinigami, most likely that Quincy are actually an evolved form/different type of shinigami that came about when a few of the VERY old shinigami decided something a little more drastic had to be done about hollows.

    Well that's it for my ramblings, hope you don't hate me so much!
    Eh I don't entirely agree.

    Here's my opinion:

    Masaki was a Quincy (also Masaki isn't dead I'm calling it now).

    Isshin or someone close to Ichigo recently trained him in using Blut and maybe some other abilities, OR he just awakened it subconsciously.

    Simplistic and to the point, just like Kubo's writing
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  3. #223
    Brewmaster ridish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Destil View Post
    Eh I don't entirely agree.

    Here's my opinion:

    Masaki was a Quincy (also Masaki isn't dead I'm calling it now).

    Isshin or someone close to Ichigo recently trained him in using Blut and maybe some other abilities, OR he just awakened it subconsciously.

    Simplistic and to the point, just like Kubo's writing
    I don't think he just happened to awaken the blut power. All quincy abilities require full control over ones reiryoku so i think he did it knowing exactly what he did. But then the question is were did he have time to learn that in such small period of time? Also, a crazy thought, we don't know who Uryū Ishida's mother is either :P could there be a connection there?

  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by ridish View Post
    I don't think he just happened to awaken the blut power. All quincy abilities require full control over ones reiryoku so i think he did it knowing exactly what he did. But then the question is were did he have time to learn that in such small period of time? Also, a crazy thought, we don't know who Uryū Ishida's mother is either :P could there be a connection there?
    When Ichigo learned Final Getsuga Tenshou he was in the Precipice World, if you remember what was said back then, when someone is in the Precipice World, time "flies" faster, meaning that the time in there is like 1000x faster than the time on Soul Society and in the human world, that's how Ichigo managed to learn Final Getsuga Tenshou.

    And, when Ichigo was imprisoned, he was in the Precipice World, so he had plenty of time to learn Blut.

  5. #225
    Brewmaster ridish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Majad View Post
    When Ichigo learned Final Getsuga Tenshou he was in the Precipice World, if you remember what was said back then, when someone is in the Precipice World, time "flies" faster, meaning that the time in there is like 1000x faster than the time on Soul Society and in the human world, that's how Ichigo managed to learn Final Getsuga Tenshou.

    And, when Ichigo was imprisoned, he was in the Precipice World, so he had plenty of time to learn Blut.
    Indeed, then it's just down to the person who taught him. Maybe it was the same person who rescued him from the prission (assuming he didn't break out himself.)

  6. #226
    Immortal Destil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ridish View Post
    Indeed, then it's just down to the person who taught him. Maybe it was the same person who rescued him from the prission (assuming he didn't break out himself.)
    And if it's the person who saved him, they're a Quincy, and it's not Grimmjow..

    Unless Grimmjow got recruited by the Vandenreich and broke free.
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  7. #227
    Brewmaster ridish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Destil View Post
    And if it's the person who saved him, they're a Quincy, and it's not Grimmjow..

    Unless Grimmjow got recruited by the Vandenreich and broke free.
    Not sure Grimmjow would be able to break the cage considering he is not all that strong (weaker than ichigo) and he is quite the meat head.

  8. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by ridish View Post
    Not sure Grimmjow would be able to break the cage considering he is not all that strong (weaker than ichigo) and he is quite the meat head.
    Kubo said he's still alive and he'll reintroduce him if it's in the right context.

    And, dude, in the 18 month timeskip, plus all this time, ya don't think after getting his ass beat TWICE Grimmjow would train to get stronger?

    We have no idea how strong he is now.
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  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by Destil View Post
    Kubo said he's still alive and he'll reintroduce him if it's in the right context.

    And, dude, in the 18 month timeskip, plus all this time, ya don't think after getting his ass beat TWICE Grimmjow would train to get stronger?

    We have no idea how strong he is now.
    True, that is true indeed, but I doubt he would have anything to do with Ichigo getting Blut, but I wouldn't admire if he managed to break Ichigo free.

    Also, let's not forget that the person who freed Ichigo is probably the same person who saves Urahara, probably, then Urahara opened a garganta, again, for that person to save Ichigo from the prison, whether it's Grimmjow or not, I don't know, it's possible, but who ever taught Ichigo Blut, wasn't Grimmjow for sure, I'm going to bed on that.

  10. #230
    Immortal Destil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Majad View Post
    True, that is true indeed, but I doubt he would have anything to do with Ichigo getting Blut, but I wouldn't admire if he managed to break Ichigo free.

    Also, let's not forget that the person who freed Ichigo is probably the same person who saves Urahara, probably, then Urahara opened a garganta, again, for that person to save Ichigo from the prison, whether it's Grimmjow or not, I don't know, it's possible, but who ever taught Ichigo Blut, wasn't Grimmjow for sure, I'm going to bed on that.
    Exactly.

    The only explanations:

    Ichigo actually learned Blut after regaining his Shinigami powers.

    Whoever saved him from the Cage helped him learn it.

    Ichigo unlocked the ability along with other hidden away abilities while in the cage and that's how he broke out.
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  11. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by Destil View Post
    Exactly.

    The only explanations:

    Ichigo actually learned Blut after regaining his Shinigami powers.

    Whoever saved him from the Cage helped him learn it.

    Ichigo unlocked the ability along with other hidden away abilities while in the cage and that's how he broke out.
    Lol, I just noticed I typed "bed" instead of "bet". <.>

    I doubt he learned his Quincy/Blut powers when he got his Shinigami powers back, it's very unlikely.

    The only logical explanation, for me right now, is that who ever saved him for the cage(if anyone actually helped him getting out) taught him Blut or, like you said, he unlocked them on his own, but how? That's just the most weird part for me.

    How would he learn/obtain Quincy powers? Let alone Blut, which is a high level Quincy ability...

  12. #232
    Mechagnome
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    As for all these fancy theories etc. Some decent.
    Some giving WAY to much credit to someone as subpar as Kubo.

    This was my reaction to the final pieces of this week's chapter:

    "Lame."

    Since it was lame. "A new power" (for Ichigo) is the most boring form of plot development I can think of. Ichigo dying, getting taken etc etc. And then somehow getting free would have been much better.

  13. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by Muzjhath View Post
    As for all these fancy theories etc. Some decent.
    Some giving WAY to much credit to someone as subpar as Kubo.

    This was my reaction to the final pieces of this week's chapter:

    "Lame."

    Since it was lame. "A new power" (for Ichigo) is the most boring form of plot development I can think of. Ichigo dying, getting taken etc etc. And then somehow getting free would have been much better.
    To be honest, I think this week's episode was simply amazing.

    And how is Ichigo getting a new power boring? Do you even know what power he has right now? QUINCY!

    How in the nine hells is he able to use Quincy powers? Isn't a good development? I'd say it is.

    And also, as soon as I saw Ichigo getting hit, I thought he died, then I went to that thought, "meh, he dies, he comes back, and he just stumps that guy, boring", but no, they actually give us something here, so I'm glad with his episode.

  14. #234
    Mechagnome
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    Where as I saw it as a bad deus ex machina pulled from Kubo's arse to try and make it intresting because he make's characters that are too powerful. And the only way to beat them is "MORE POWER!"

  15. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by Muzjhath View Post
    Where as I saw it as a bad deus ex machina pulled from Kubo's arse to try and make it intresting because he make's characters that are too powerful. And the only way to beat them is "MORE POWER!"
    But Bleach has been like this since the start, so why are you still watching it?

    This anime focus a lot on fights, power, abilities and such, and not very much on character development. I watch this anime simply because I love the fights, the power increase and pretty much everything about it, among other reasons.

    If you are still watching it, or reading the manga(which you seem to be doing it), why are you saying Bleach is bad?

  16. #236
    Mechagnome
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    I haven't watched a single episode of the anime, only ever read the Manga.
    And I've kept reading since the start of the SS arc for one reason. A deathcount. That's just recently started to tick. (Of named good guys)

    Edit: And from seeing what not to do when creating a compelling story.

  17. #237
    Immortal Destil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muzjhath View Post
    I haven't watched a single episode of the anime, only ever read the Manga.
    And I've kept reading since the start of the SS arc for one reason. A deathcount. That's just recently started to tick. (Of named good guys)

    Edit: And from seeing what not to do when creating a compelling story.
    Then don't read it and don't complain about it.

    I think Kubo's writing has been fantastic this arc and the previous one.
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  18. #238
    I am Murloc! Gallahadd's Avatar
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    Great episode

    Was reading it, first off a bit sad due to Byakuya passing on (was still kinda hoping Orihime would show up and heal him... guess he's a bit beyond that now ), Then we have a very important line, that most of y'all seem to have skipped, because of the cliffhanger:
    Ichigo: Are you... The enemies leader?
    Juha: "Enemy" heh. "I am" and at the same time "I'm not"

    So is this Juha saying that he's not the Vandenreich leader? Could he be the leader of the Stern Ritter, but NOT the Vandenreich leader? or maybe the leader of the Vandenreich, but not the leader of the Quincy?

    Then the fight begins.... and my expectations drop immediatly into "standard fair mode" Oh look! Ichigo has engaged the enemy and been totally dominated! that's NEVER happened before....

    then he used Blut Vene...

    what the FFUUCCCKKKK! Totally didn't see that coming, I mean I knew that Ichigo would get some kind of powerup to let him fight on par with these guys, and I knew it couldn't be anything Getsuga Tenshou related (because that's been used) and it can't be anything Bankai related, but never in a million years would I have predicted it would be Quincy powers ... then again... I guess we SHOULD have guessed really...

    First Arc enemy: Shinigami - what does Ichigo do? He learns Bankai, a Shinigami power
    Second Arc Enemy: Arrancar - what does Ichigo do? He learns Vizard form, an Arrancar power
    third Arc Enemy: Fullbringers - what does Ichigo do? He learns to use his Fullbring, THE fullbringer power
    and now we have!
    Final Arc enemy: Quincy - what does Ichigo do? he learns Blut Vene! a Quincy power

    so I guess we shouldn't be THAT surprised... but I totally was

    Also as to his mum being a Quincy... VERY possibly, as for the whole "but then she would have been able to sense/kill the Grand Fisher" you forget, Grand Fisher was a strong fucker, he'd killed ALOT of people in the past, including iirc a few Shinigami, so I'm guessing one Quincy, distracted by trying to save her idiot son wouldn't have been THAT hard to ambush.

    Also.... how much of a mindfuck would it be if Misaki was an Ishida? maybe Ryuken's sister or something, would explain why Ryuken and Isshin are friends, despite Ryuken hating Shinigami.
    Reading the A song of Ice and Fire series is like playing with an adorable puppy, then someone comes up out of nowhere and shoots the puppy, then punches you in the face

  19. #239
    The Lightbringer Pud'n's Avatar
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    Well this is an unexpected change.............can't say I'm happy :/. If he is indeed "half quincy", it's a bit irritating to see how quick he's able to grasp an elite quincy technique.

    Can't say I'm angry or surprised though, story-telling was never Kubo's strong suit.
    Last edited by Pud'n; 2012-10-25 at 02:41 AM.

  20. #240
    Immortal Destil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pud'n View Post
    Well this is an unexpected change.............can't say I'm happy :/. If he is indeed "half quincy", it's a bit irritating to see how quick he's able to grasp an elite quincy technique.

    Can't say I'm angry or surprised though, story-telling was never Kubo's strong suit.
    It has been for this arc.

    If he unlocked that power while in the cage it'd make a lot more sense.
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