Teen Killed In Neighborhood Watch Shooting

[Marimba]

Am I justifying his murder by that? No, I'm not. Why don't you try reading anything at all before spewing your garbage in this thread? I'm saying that it was not racist to be suspicious of this kid, and you know damn well that if you saw a 6'+ tall male walking around your neighborhood in a hoodie, you'd be suspicious too. Especially wandering around slowly and aimlessly in the rain.

As for the rest, we don't know that he stalked him and killed him. We know he briefly followed him and then lost him and stopped. Whether he was walking back to his car and was then attacked by Martin as he claims, or caught sight of him again and went and attacked him on his own, we don't know. Let me repeat that for the slow people here: we do not know. The limited information we have seems to point towards the former, but hey: why let anything get in the way of your hate filled rhetoric?

I do, but I'm not telling.

[senshu]

How many people really know enough of the folks in their neighborhood to know who belongs there and who doesn't? Seriously, I previously mentioned I lived in my old neighborhood for a very long time. Middle class, suburban neighborhood, very quiet. I knew the people that lived directly across the street and my immediate neighbors. So it's not really anyone's place to decide who belongs in their neighborhood.

He wasn't deciding who belonged there, he saw a person exhibiting suspicious behavior and called the cops.

Also, am I really the only one that paces when I talk on the phone? Even when I go outside to take a call, I'll wander aimlessly or just back and forth.

No, everyone does that. But do it in the rain, outside of other people's homes and you are going to look suspicious.

I'm sorry, I can't justify Zimmerman's actions past calling the police. If it turns out that he was jumped by Martin, then so be it and this was a justifiable action. You will never convince me that he needed to do anything beyond calling the cops and letting it be. And, yes, this would still matter if the kid was white, hispanic, arabic, or whatever. Hell the shooter is half Hispanic and the media made him white anyway. This speaks to the cultural disconnect that always exists between one generation and the next.

Nobody is really saying otherwise. Yes he should have called the cops and left it at that. If he started to follow him and stops, as it seems, then he really did nothing wrong. Yet even if he did follow Martin for a while, is that justification for attack? If that is what happened, then it will end up being a justifiable action.

People are quick to villianize the kid because he smokes pot and has a "thug" twitter account. Maybe they should do the research on exactly how many kids that age self report that they smoke weed. I went a very wealthy private Catholic high school that my parents could barely afford to send me to. This was when Myspace first emerged as a thing. Want to guess how many of those rich white kids that knew nothing about gangs and had never seen a ghetto had "thug" profiles?

Being from Miami myself, I can tell you that it's not impossible that the kid wasn't what most people would consider a "thug", but it's very unlikely. But people are pointing out those things to counter this image of a squeaky clean angel that's being presented in the media. Show a more recent picture, for pete's sake. And weed, nobody really cares about but it does demonstrate that he's not the completely fine and upstanding citizen they'd like us to believe he is. The stolen jewelry and screwdriver were a bit more menacing, but still not that big of a deal, relatively speaking.

Maybe race was an issue, maybe age was an issue, only Zimmerman really knows the truth. Anyone that says they know for sure is lying. Here's the truth that I've been saying for days. If he just called the cops and left it alone, this wouldn't be a discussion.

And if many other things had or hadn't happened, from both parties, then it wouldn't be a discussion. Age and race both would be hard to determine in the rain, and on the recording of the call he can't properly identify the race until the kid is approaching him. So it's possible it played a factor later on, but we can at least say race wasn't the initial reason he called the cops.

[Jagoex]

Those who assume the shooting was racially-motivated are similar to those who initiate hate crimes, IMO. Both thoughts are fueled by skin color and skin color alone.

[tombstoner139]

I am a cop, I have looked over the evidence that is available to the public. I see nothing wrong with how the situation was handled. Granted it could have been handled differently but who am I to judge the actions of professionals when I don't have access to ALL of the evidence. There are always things that are not available for the GENERAL public to scrutinize.

Get off your high horse and let the people who are trained to deal with these things do their job. If this was a white kid that got shot you guys wouldn't even have heard about it or cared if you did. Quit being all self righteous and get over yourselves.

as a cop... in your professional opinion what would you do if you saw someone following you, monitoring your movements. You don't know who they are, you don't know if they mean you harm. what do you do? as a private citizen trayvon chose to run.( fact provided by the transcripts) if you think this is irrelevant to the case you have no ability to understand why people are so angry.

[blib]

Am I justifying his murder by that? No, I'm not. Why don't you try reading anything at all before spewing your garbage in this thread? I'm saying that it was not racist to be suspicious of this kid, and you know damn well that if you saw a 6'+ tall male walking around your neighborhood in a hoodie, you'd be suspicious too. Especially wandering around slowly and aimlessly in the rain.

As for the rest, we don't know that he stalked him and killed him. We know he briefly followed him and then lost him and stopped. Whether he was walking back to his car and was then attacked by Martin as he claims, or caught sight of him again and went and attacked him on his own, we don't know. Let me repeat that for the slow people here: we do not know. The limited information we have seems to point towards the former, but hey: why let anything get in the way of your hate filled rhetoric?

Yes you are implying that. I am 195cms tall and I often wear a hoodie and suprise suprise nobody have stalked me. Why would I be suspicious of that? Why would I start following this person around?

We know he stalked him and we know he killed him yes, both of this things are facts. A grown man followed a kid around and he shoot him to death. If the kid only had his bare hands it doesnt mather if he attacked him or not, non of Zimmermans injurys points to it being a fight for his life. Guess what if someone is trying to kill you with his bare hands and hes on top of you for a long time you are gonne be seriously injured if not dead.

[senshu]

Yes you are implying that.

No, I'm not implying that at all. Not even close. Before you accuse people of saying things, I suggest you learn to read.

I am 195cms tall and I often wear a hoodie and suprise suprise nobody have stalked me. Why would I be suspicious of that? Why would I start following this person around?

And I'm 6'2" and many times in my life have been asked questions to the effect of, "What are you doing here?" when I'm doing nothing more than walking through an area, without wearing a hoodie and sometimes in broad daylight. I answer the questions and move along. If I'm a stranger pacing around a neighborhood in the dark, while it's raining, then it's not a surprise to me if someone finds me suspicious. Don't think so? PM me your address and some night next week I'll have someone talk on their phone right outside your house at night. I'm sure it won't bother you at all.

We know he stalked him and we know he killed him yes, both of this things are facts. A grown man followed a kid around and he shoot him to death. If the kid only had his bare hands it doesnt mather if he attacked him or not, non of Zimmermans injurys points to it being a fight for his life. Guess what if someone is trying to kill you with his bare hands and hes on top of you for a long time you are gonne be seriously injured if not dead.

Get a different word besides "stalked" because it doesn't quite fit the events. And the rest of what you've written here shows that you're not really interested in facts or what really happened: you just heard the initial word on the case and then jumped to your own conclusions. Some of it doesn't even make sense.

If it turns out that Martin circled around and did attack Zimmerman, then he will go free. If it turns out that Zimmerman somehow ran this kid down and started the fight (which, why would he do that if he had a gun? not to mention, why wouldn't he have done that for any of the other cases he'd been involved in?), then Zimmerman will be punished accordingly. You seem to have it all figured out, though, and are getting upset at people who want to discuss what is actually known so far.

---------- Post added 2012-03-28 at 03:17 PM ----------

as a cop... in your professional opinion what would you do if you saw someone following you, monitoring your movements. You don't know who they are, you don't know if they mean you harm. what do you do? as a private citizen trayvon chose to run.( all facts in the transcripts) if you think is irrelevant to the case you have no ability to understand why people are so angry.

You haven't listened to the call, have you? If Martin chose to run, then he would have made it home and nothing would have happened. While Zimmerman was on the phone, shortly after he started following Martin, he lost him. Now either Martin did circle back around to confront Zimmerman, or he stopped running and decided he was fine where he was, and Zimmerman found him and confronted him. In neither case can you say he chose to run. This is exactly what the initial media reports said, and they got it completely wrong.

[Drofu]

Do you really think that anything but Zimmerman's blood will satiate the masses at this point? The mob has spoken. Also, someone posted this here earlier. Not saying by itself it's huge, but a possibly a portent of things to come.

http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/27/mi...artin-protest/

Well then if the verdict goes sour, perhaps we can see what a city locked down in Martial Law would look like. Also, gangs of flash mobs rob stuff from stores more often then you think.

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/lo...134286103.html
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2011...f-merchandise/
http://www.hometownannapolis.com/new...rom-store.html

And that is just a few random ones, there is much more of this happening.

[Extrazero8]

Yes you are implying that. I am 195cms tall and I often wear a hoodie and suprise suprise nobody have stalked me. Why would I be suspicious of that? Why would I start following this person around?

We know he stalked him and we know he killed him yes, both of this things are facts. A grown man followed a kid around and he shoot him to death. If the kid only had his bare hands it doesnt mather if he attacked him or not, non of Zimmermans injurys points to it being a fight for his life. Guess what if someone is trying to kill you with his bare hands and hes on top of you for a long time you are gonne be seriously injured if not dead.

From the information we have it points to Martin being the aggressor. Zimmermans injures and witness statements are consistent with Zimmermans claim that Martin forced Zimmerman to use his gun in self defense.

Look, I get you don't like that Zimmerman left his car to follow Martin. However I don't care and neither does the law. The fact is that when he left his car to follow Martin he didn't break any laws. Zimmerman leaving his car to follow Martin did not allow Martin to assault him nor did it allow Martin to continue to assault him while he was on the ground calling out for help.

You can disagree with the law all you want but Zimmerman didn't break any laws that night. Until new information comes out, Zimmerman is in the clear legally.

[senshu]

Well then if the verdict goes sour, perhaps we can see what a city locked down in Martial Law would look like. Also, gangs of flash mobs rob stuff from stores more often then you think.

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/lo...134286103.html
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2011...f-merchandise/
http://www.hometownannapolis.com/new...rom-store.html

And that is just a few random ones, there is much more of this happening.

Shop lifting is one thing, not that I condone it at all.

[Roose]

Great summation of FACTS so far.

No opinions or conjecture, just the facts.

[senshu]

Great summation of FACTS so far.

No opinions or conjecture, just the facts.

Thanks. That's a fairly decent summation. There are a few things left out, but it generally tells what we know so far.

[Khalador]

I jumped on the bandwagon when this story broke out but now I'm off of it. Everyday I hear something else that makes this kid seem less and less innocent. I think it's a tragedy and I think he's been exploited enough. The more and more I hear, the less bad I feel for him.

It started out as an innocent kid with Skittles and Tea that was followed and chased by Zimmerman and then shot. Now it's the kid that had the upper hand in the fight and was bashing Zimmerman's head into the ground. I find it funny that people keep showing their weights like that means anything. This isn't a fight card, it's real life. There's videos that show old men beating up younger kids and skinny people beating up fat people. It's all so stupid, and people should stop speculating on what happened. Soon they will be saying that Zimmerman was gay for the kid and the kid bought the skittles with drug money.

[senshu]

I jumped on the bandwagon when this story broke out but now I'm off of it. Everyday I hear something else that makes this kid seem less and less innocent. I think it's a tragedy and I think he's been exploited enough. The more and more I hear, the less bad I feel for him.

This is pretty much me, to a tee. I was right on that bandwagon at the start. I think so was anyone else who heard the limited information that was out there at the time. But we've since come to see that there's a lot more to the story, and maybe we should all calm down and let due process take its course. I wouldn't say I feel less bad for him, though, as a life was taken and no parent should ever have to endure that. I don't think race was an issue, AT ALL, and I hate the uproar around that. Let's look at some of the other crimes going on during the past month and tell me why we aren't outraged over those. Because this man didn't get arrested at the time? Justice will prevail, and if he's guilty then he'll do his time, or worse. If not, and he goes free, will people be satisfied with that justice?

[Tinykong]

There will be people who want blood regardless of outcome, they just want revenge.

[Drofu]

Shop lifting is one thing, not that I condone it at all.

I just didn't like the way the media portrayed it as if it never happened before is all.

[whyusocrazy]

He's a killer, not a murderer yet.

I just wanna know how people can say that Zimmerman was getting his ass beat at his car when the body was a little over 100+ feet away when it was discovered with Zimmerman on Treyvon's back holding the corpse down.

You realize 100ft is not that far?

---------- Post added 2012-03-28 at 10:48 PM ----------

I jumped on the bandwagon when this story broke out but now I'm off of it. Everyday I hear something else that makes this kid seem less and less innocent. I think it's a tragedy and I think he's been exploited enough. The more and more I hear, the less bad I feel for him.

It started out as an innocent kid with Skittles and Tea that was followed and chased by Zimmerman and then shot. Now it's the kid that had the upper hand in the fight and was bashing Zimmerman's head into the ground.

You can blame the media and groups like NAACP/ACLU.

[blib]

No, I'm not implying that at all. Not even close. Before you accuse people of saying things, I suggest you learn to read.


And I'm 6'2" and many times in my life have been asked questions to the effect of, "What are you doing here?" when I'm doing nothing more than walking through an area, without wearing a hoodie and sometimes in broad daylight. I answer the questions and move along. If I'm a stranger pacing around a neighborhood in the dark, while it's raining, then it's not a surprise to me if someone finds me suspicious. Don't think so? PM me your address and some night next week I'll have someone talk on their phone right outside your house at night. I'm sure it won't bother you at all.


Get a different word besides "stalked" because it doesn't quite fit the events. And the rest of what you've written here shows that you're not really interested in facts or what really happened: you just heard the initial word on the case and then jumped to your own conclusions. Some of it doesn't even make sense.

If it turns out that Martin circled around and did attack Zimmerman, then he will go free. If it turns out that Zimmerman somehow ran this kid down and started the fight (which, why would he do that if he had a gun? not to mention, why wouldn't he have done that for any of the other cases he'd been involved in?), then Zimmerman will be punished accordingly. You seem to have it all figured out, though, and are getting upset at people who want to discuss what is actually known so far.

---------- Post added 2012-03-28 at 03:17 PM ----------



You haven't listened to the call, have you? If Martin chose to run, then he would have made it home and nothing would have happened. While Zimmerman was on the phone, shortly after he started following Martin, he lost him. Now either Martin did circle back around to confront Zimmerman, or he stopped running and decided he was fine where he was, and Zimmerman found him and confronted him. In neither case can you say he chose to run. This is exactly what the initial media reports said, and they got it completely wrong.

Yes you are implying that by bringing his cloths and behaviour into the equation when it doesnt mather at all. In fact they have fuck all to do with the case. You dont follow random people around in your neighbourhood, normal people dont do this, especially not when they are told by a 911 operator to not follow.

He might be allowed to stand his ground but not even this insane law gives you the right to move it.

I live at Grunnerløkka in Oslo and you are welcome to come around anytime you feel like it.

Stalked fits perfectly, check your dictionary. He stalked him and he shoot him to death, he constructed the situation. A kid at night armed with a hoodi followed by a grown man with a gun, which one had the most right to be afraid? Zimmermans life was in no way threadend simply because the kid was unarmed and he wasnt. Do you think the kid would have backed down if he had a gun pointed at him? If Zimmermans life was in danger froma fight his injuries would have beena lot more severe.

The know facts are a grown man with a gun stalked a kid with a hoodie and he murderd the unarmed kid, unless it turn out the kid had a gun as well he murderd him.

---------- Post added 2012-03-29 at 12:11 AM ----------

From the information we have it points to Martin being the aggressor. Zimmermans injures and witness statements are consistent with Zimmermans claim that Martin forced Zimmerman to use his gun in self defense.

Look, I get you don't like that Zimmerman left his car to follow Martin. However I don't care and neither does the law. The fact is that when he left his car to follow Martin he didn't break any laws. Zimmerman leaving his car to follow Martin did not allow Martin to assault him nor did it allow Martin to continue to assault him while he was on the ground calling out for help.

You can disagree with the law all you want but Zimmerman didn't break any laws that night. Until new information comes out, Zimmerman is in the clear legally.

Yes it did allow Martin to assault him because of the same freaking law that might let this childmurderer off. He was pursued by a gorwn man with a gun and he felt threatend and under this law he is not forced to retreat but can defend himself against a grown man with a gun.

How serious was Zimmermans injuries? A cracked skulls? If he was being beaten so heavily that his life was in danger he would have needed to go to the hospital.

[Defengar]

THIS JUST IN, POLICE VIDEO SHOWS ZIMMERMAN WASN'T HURT BY TRAVON AT ALL!!! VIDEO INSIDE
http://abcnews.go.com/US/video/georg...lance-16024475

he said that he had a large gash on the back of his head and a broken nose, and was dazed...

[smelltheglove]

this entire event was brought about by zimmerman. he decided to take his gun and follow what he thought was a suspicious character - against the orders of 911 operators. maybe they aren't police, but they certainly were in the capacity of representing the police at the time.

zim, an adult, chased down an unarmed kid with a gun. if anybody is allowed to cry self defense it's the kid imo. it doesn't matter to me who swung first. zim escalated the situation at every opportunity. if martin swung first, who's to say he wasn't attacking in self defense? i might in that situation - chased down by a wierdo that has 100 lbs on me (assuming i don't even know he has the gun, which would certainly raise my perceived threat level) and confronted. in his shoes i might very well have decided it was a life and death situation.

[Aeryana]

snip

That video's not working for me so I can't really comment, but we really don't know if the paramedics had cleaned Zimmerman up at the point or the video may not be the best quality to make that assessment. I don't see why the police would outright lie. Again, can't watch the video so maybe it's super HD or whatever... but yeah.