Teen Killed In Neighborhood Watch Shooting

[alturic]

Oh and where's the broken nose? The police report alluded to alot more dmg to Zimmermans person and very little is seen in the video. For all I know that could be a smudge of grass on his head.

I've never seen reddish grass. If I'm not mistaken (can't be assed to verify) the broken nose thing came from his attorneys and not the police? <-- I found it odd when I skimmed the article

[Todgruppe]

Dont try and pretend because you clearly have no experience with this except from TV. I used to be in a gang when I was a kid and contrary to your belfie people are not made of glass, fights can drag on for a long time unless some insane moron goes for a move that will cause permanent damage, it might end the fight quickly but you should never hurt a person like that unless you are a 100% sure they are trying to do it to you. A fight can also end in a second with just one punch but that doesnt mean that you should ever go for a move that will cause permanent damage unless you know for sure he is trying to cause it to you.

I am always going to assume that, there is no point in a fight to just "roughhouse" and considering you where "in a gang and the military" your awfully naive about assuming the worst. You always plan for the worst.

[DuckieMage]

Dude it's not even that. He doesn't need to patrol. He's not a cop, he's not the punisher or some other vigilante. Look for people who are supposedly conservative libertarians why do you think its your civic duty to stop people walking through the streets? Why do you feel it's your job to nose into everything? I don't mean you btw I should be clear. I mean the notion that everything has to be investigated by walking community patrols armed to the teeth.

I know what you mean. Zimmerman shouldn't have had a gun on him really, but he was legally allowed to[which is another topic]. Some people feel more comfortable in their neighborhoods when they have a watchman. I know that recently I saw a police officer drive through my neighborhood after dark and it made me feel alot safer. I've had an attempted break-in at my house. They never got in because we our window had a block to hinder it, but it's now in my mind that people are trying to get into houses and I don't feel as safe. Knowing that there is someone patrolling does curb this fear, as it is a legit fear.

[Leonard McCoy]

When it comes to a physical confrontation, 17 and 18 isn't that different. Assuming that Martin's "judgement skills" led him to a pissed off confrontation is somehow different because that lack of judgment was a minor instead of an adult?

And also, Zimmerman was returning to his truck according to his story, so he agree's with you.

But, if I had to second guess the situation, it seems that the dispatcher should have remained on the phone with a guy wandering around in the night after someone that was approaching him just ran off and was no longer visible. If he had been on the phone with the police, the confrontation may not have happened, and at the least it would have been recorded.



Not saying Zimmerman's not a hothead, but he called the police (perhaps being racist or paranoid, but still). He didn't pull his truck over, draw his gun and yell "hey, what the f*** are you doing!".

I don't think Zimmerman is all that much of a hothead either. I think theirs a mentality that's pervasive and somewhat contradictory. It's a mentality that says I've got my freedom to have a gun and stop you from having your freedom to walk because were conservative and libertarian and by god and the constitution were gonna take care of it.

If Zimmermans judgement wasn't so piss poor he wouldn't have left his house in the first place. He would have listened to the dispatcher and stopped and thought to himself for a second "maybe I don't know better". I don't care if you guys think they're fucking morons. THEY WERE RIGHT. Simple as that.

---------- Post added 2012-04-03 at 04:13 AM ----------

I've never seen reddish grass. If I'm not mistaken (can't be assed to verify) the broken nose thing came from his attorneys and not the police? <-- I found it odd when I skimmed the article

Oh that was red? It was so blurred it was hard to tell.

[Heilige]

Dude it's not even that. He doesn't need to patrol. He's not a cop, he's not the punisher or some other vigilante. Look for people who are supposedly conservative libertarians why do you think its your civic duty to stop people walking through the streets? Why do you feel it's your job to nose into everything? I don't mean you btw I should be clear. I mean the notion that everything has to be investigated by walking community patrols armed to the teeth.

Citizen's arrests are on the books for a reason... police can't be everywhere at every minute of everyday. Yes things can/probably should have been handled differently, but that doesn't mean citizen's being proactive to better their communities is a bad thing or even unnecessary. I'm not saying everything Zimmerman did was necessarily the right thing, but it does seem that way since most people are quick to condemn him - even with zero evidence available to them.

[alturic]

Easy: page one.

It's illegal pretty much everywhere. Including Florida.

Well, and again this is why I think the law is funny but while it make be illegal you're not going to see any repercussions over you kid calling 911 and the cops showing up at your house. They may talk to him for 5 minutes and ask him if he knows why its wrong and how it's only for emergencies but you're only ever going to see charges or fines if you repeatedly do it.

Unless I misunderstood you and you are saying it's illegal for me to call and report something that I feel is a crime and/or suspicious? Pa must have really nice cops or it's not illegal for that here, hell I've called 911 to test E911 dialing before a few times with no problems.

[Leonard McCoy]

Citizen's arrests are on the books for a reason... police can't be everywhere at every minute of everyday.

No they're not omnipotent. However plenty of other modern industrial societies do not have roving bands of vigilantes patrolling their streets and don't need a large police force. I wonder what the difference is, I have my own thoughts on the matter but it's best left for another discussion. Regardless Zimmerman made a piss poor judgement and he would have been better served to listen to the dispatcher. Simple as that. Get the hero mentality out of your head. You may think the trained professional is a fucking retard but clearly in this case they were right. They ere'd on the side of caution and it was the correct judgement. Again they were trained for that specific purpose. Everybody else knows better though. You've got your guns so yea you know better. Disgusting...

[blib]

I am always going to assume that, there is no point in a fight to just "roughhouse" and considering you where "in a gang and the military" your awfully naive about assuming the worst. You always plan for the worst.

In the military its different but thats my point, in america you have the same mentality that soldiers do in war zones. When I was about 13 I ran off to London to live with friends and even though stuff got rought from time to time nobody ever asumed anybody was out to kill anyone. If you go into fights with the belife that its allways him or you you are either gonna end up dead or in jail. In never asumed that and I have never been neither.

You can not go around killing people because you are afraid they might..

In a functioning society you dont have to asume that people are out to kill you because in 99,9999% of the cases they are not.

[alturic]

Unless of course the courts deem his life was not in imminent death and his judgement was poor and reactionary. Sentencing him and at the same time throwing down the law as a matter of precedent for future cases. Thanks for the fix, I just completed it for you.

You didn't complete anything for me. You stated you can kill people and get away with it. I corrected you and showed you that you can.

That's my whole point though, you can't (well of course you can they do it everyday) have a law that states something that is open for interpretation and then try and deny everyone who uses it unless it is proven 100% that they were clearly in the wrong (shooting someone who was running away from you) at the same time.

[DuckieMage]

Oh that was red? It was so blurred it was hard to tell.

The video is so blurred, no sane person could get any true evidence from this. What should be considered true evidence is any report made by the paramedics/police at the scene. Noted in the police report is he had a bloodied nose and scraps on the back of his head at the time of the incident. He declined to be taken to a hospital, as is his right, and was treated by the paramedics.

[Heilige]

Well, and again this is why I think the law is funny but while it make be illegal you're not going to see any repercussions over you kid calling 911 and the cops showing up at your house. They may talk to him for 5 minutes and ask him if he knows why its wrong and how it's only for emergencies but you're only ever going to see charges or fines if you repeatedly do it.

Unless I misunderstood you and you are saying it's illegal for me to call and report something that I feel is a crime and/or suspicious? Pa must have really nice cops or it's not illegal for that here, hell I've called 911 to test E911 dialing before a few times with no problems.

People fail to understand that by most state standards, Martin would be under suspicion of a crime justifying Zimmerman's question... While this is from PA's books, it's just for reference since I have a number of PA legal sites on bookmark:

§ 5506. Loitering and prowling at night time.
Whoever at night time maliciously loiters or maliciously
prowls around a dwelling house or any other place used wholly or
in part for living or dwelling purposes, belonging to or
occupied by another, is guilty of a misdemeanor of the third
degree.

[Leonard McCoy]

The video is so blurred, no sane person could get any true evidence from this. What should be considered true evidence is any report made by the paramedics/police at the scene. Noted in the police report is he had a bloodied nose and scraps on the back of his head at the time of the incident. He declined to be taken to a hospital, as is his right, and was treated by the paramedics.

uhhh not quite. A broken nose would be fairly visible even with that degree of blur. A broken nose is a bit more major than a gash to the head.

[alturic]

I am always going to assume that, there is no point in a fight to just "roughhouse" and considering you where "in a gang and the military" your awfully naive about assuming the worst. You always plan for the worst.

Seriously... I never condoned violence but honestly what is the point of being in a "gang" (and I don't mean when you are 7) and "fighting" someone without intent on hurting them? That's... usually why fights happen... you don't decide "hey that guy just called me a loser, i'm going to rough-house with him for 5 minutes and we'll get along after".

[jbombard]

You have never been in a real fight in your entire life have you? I used to get in a lot of fights as a kid, I have been a boxer for several years and i served in the military. In 99% of fights non of the fighters are trying to kill the other person and no, fights going on for a long time usually means the fighters are evenly matched and its most likely gonna end with both of them getting tired before anything else. Necessary force is a treehugging thing.. WTF are you talking about, if someone punches me in the face I dont break his enck because I can and it will end the fight. I punch him back in the face because that is the apropriate response.

Indeed but I was also in the military, and chances are anyone with military experience would have had better judgement. That doesn't mean Zimmerman wasn't scared for his life, the fact that someone died is that 2 people had extremely poor judgement. On trial he won't be trying to prove how appropriate his judgement was, in fact he doesn't really have to prove anything he simply has to say he was scared for his life and the prosecution has to prove he wasn't. I don't think there is any doubt that he overreacted, the thing is he won't go to jail for overreacting.

[Leonard McCoy]

The video is so blurred, no sane person could get any true evidence from this. What should be considered true evidence is any report made by the paramedics/police at the scene. Noted in the police report is he had a bloodied nose and scraps on the back of his head at the time of the incident. He declined to be taken to a hospital, as is his right, and was treated by the paramedics.

uhhh not quite. A broken nose would be fairly visible even with that degree of blur. A broken nose is a bit more major than a gash to the head. They're right to seem that the extent of reported injuries are not prevalent in the video. It may be that some injuries are, however I believe the argument that can be made is the local police dropped the ball on this one.

[blib]

Citizen's arrests are on the books for a reason... police can't be everywhere at every minute of everyday. Yes things can/probably should have been handled differently, but that doesn't mean citizen's being proactive to better their communities is a bad thing or even unnecessary. I'm not saying everything Zimmerman did was necessarily the right thing, but it does seem that way since most people are quick to condemn him - even with zero evidence available to them.

He killed a unarmed kid after stalking him, this is known for a fact. How is that not a crime. Because he might have gotten confronted in a fight for his life, which he didnt even have to go to the hospital for? Losing a fight is not a good enough reason to murder someone. If his head was smashed, actually smashed, into the pavement repeatadly he would have had to be sent to the hospital.

[Heilige]

uhhh not quite. A broken nose would be fairly visible even with that degree of blur. A broken nose is a bit more major than a gash to the head.

Not always... I broke my nose and didn't realize it until I went to go to sleep and just touching it hurt like hell. It all depends on the severity/placement of the break. Granted that was once - the other two times it was blatantly obvious - bled like hell and was completely crooked.

[Paranoid Android]

You know, there is a such thing as a citizens arrest right?

Yes. People like you maybe are the ones who scare me then. You have "reasonable" suspiscion or cause to arrest some person. Citizens are not trained in anyways in law enforcement and especially detective work. Like the one OP you replied to people cannot go around and arrest people on suspicion. Even police cannot "profile" people. Yes police and authority have alot more leeway and depends on how you look at it. Some libertarians say too much.

Also citizens are restrained from using excessive force. That could be anything from throwing person to the ground, using mace and gun. Why? Again law enforcement knows it would become the wild west if otherwise not enforced.

Which brings back the Zimmerman/Martin case. Why did Zimmerman deem Martin suspicious? Why did Zimmerman follow him? If it was me and most sane people I do not think we would follow a possible criminal because that person could become violent, UNLESS you happen to be carrying a gun where you know if anything goes down you have a weapon for backup.

I also have heard on tv that Zimmerman could be in trouble for carrying a weapon and using it in the manner he did. Once Zimmerman decided to follow/pursue Martin the license he possesed for the weapon is invalid. Again I don't know Florida law could be wrong and this "technicality" is probably not prosecutable by state attorney but I bet a civil lawsuit. Which is not justice but just goes more to my point of Zimmerman's overzealousness.

[alturic]

Oh that was red? It was so blurred it was hard to tell.

How is it blurred? His head is bald. The light is glaring off most of it. Open your closest photo editing program and use the color picker. It clearly is a red tint. Yes, that kind of magic holds up in the court of law!

Honestly though, I can't tell if you were being serious as I hope you aren't that naive.

[v2prwsmb45yhuq3wj23vpjk]

Easy: page one.

It's illegal pretty much everywhere. Including Florida.

If you were to actually read what I said and then read the text of the links that are included in that Google search, you'd understand that you don't get thrown in jail for calling 911 when nothing is wrong. You get arrested for fucking around and prank calling them, not for calling them when you think something is wrong but there is actually nothing wrong.