Teen Killed In Neighborhood Watch Shooting

[HeltrSkeltr]

I've been threatened many times and falsely accused of being racist..When in fact all of my best friend's are of different races. I was never and will never be racist, I just hate stupid people in general.

[Orange Joe]

Yes I did edit that but it doesn't change the first part. You seem to not be reading part of it though. I'm not going to randomly pick someone and shoot them because they look funny. I would have to feel like my life was in danger. IF someone is coming at me with the intent of attacking me. Just because i can't see he has a weapon in hand does not mean he don't have one. The fact the he is trying to attack me means he is trying to harm me. I have the right to defend myself if needed. I would fully expect the police to investigate the matter.

---------- Post added 2012-03-09 at 03:35 PM ----------



Would I expect a trail or investigation on me. Yes I would. Would I hope they Agree with me that I was in danger, yes. Does this change my opinion, no.

I have no intent of trying to change your opinion, just formulate my own. I'm just trying to paint a scenario. You're arguing with somebody in the street, you have a gun but are unaware that they having any weapon. That person then approaches you aggressively, having not touched you yet. Because that person approached you aggressively, having not laid a finger on you yet, you will defend yourself by killing that person?

Again, it's your own opinion, I can't fault you for that. But I personally would warn that person by aiming the gun at them first and keep my sight tightly locked on them long enough for us both to safely retreat. The wiki link you gave stated that deadly force can be used when a person is unable to retreat (apart from in your own home where you are not obliged to retreat). So effectively, you have not followed law. You assumed your life was at risk because the person approached you menacingly. But they had not touched you, and there was still space for you to retreat. Shit, you could fire a blank, or a non-lethal shot. But you'd shoot that person in the chest, and expect the law to agree with you?

EDIT: Please don't be offended by anything I say, its just opinion vs opinion. I do not intend to cause any offense.

Like I said before I would have to feel like I was in immediate threat of dying. And yes this includes whether I could run away or not.

But... I would like to point out this (just to keep up discussion)

In Runyan, the court stated "When a person, being without fault, is in a place where he has a right to be, is violently assaulted, he may, without retreating, repel by force, and if, in the reasonable exercise of his right of self defense, his assailant is killed, he is justiciable."

According to this, and I kind of agree with it. If I have the right to be somewhere. Why should I have to run away? Why don't I have the right to stand up and defend myself from attack?
*edit (just noticed I might be reading this wrong)

[Qprah]

Considering what information about the case is available, its not really far fetched to assume racism. Now making a judgement this early is probably not in the best interest of the court, but for Commentators (not Journalists) it is enough to make an opinion.

Yes its absolutely Murder of some kind, perhaps Manslaughter but I highly doubt it.
Yes he should have been arrested on the spot and taken into custody until the entire story was known.
Yes this is a good argument for Gun Control. You dont just give a car (lethal weapon) to any Tom, Dick or Harry that wants one, they have to prove they can use it properly.

The whole part about it being a gated community makes me think the shooter has jumped to a conclusion that he really shouldn't have. The fact that he shot the kid (as far as we know) unprovoked makes me think racism as well.

I'm sure at some point we'll find out more info about this story, and then I can stop thinking this murder was race related. However until proven otherwise, what little information we have points in that direction.

[Xeones]

How does it make sense to argue anything when we don't know anything about the case?

[Lirina]

Considering what information about the case is available, its not really far fetched to assume racism. Now making a judgement this early is probably not in the best interest of the court, but for Commentators (not Journalists) it is enough to make an opinion.

Yes its absolutely Murder of some kind, perhaps Manslaughter but I highly doubt it.
Yes he should have been arrested on the spot and taken into custody until the entire story was known.
Yes this is a good argument for Gun Control. You dont just give a car (lethal weapon) to any Tom, Dick or Harry that wants one, they have to prove they can use it properly.

The whole part about it being a gated community makes me think the shooter has jumped to a conclusion that he really shouldn't have. The fact that he shot the kid (as far as we know) unprovoked makes me think racism as well.

I'm sure at some point we'll find out more info about this story, and then I can stop thinking this murder was race related. However until proven otherwise, what little information we have points in that direction.

According to zimmerman (the man who shot the kid) there was an altercation between them. Ontop of that he did call 911 BEFORE he shot the kid. The police arresting him and taking him into custody would require charging him with the crime. (guilty before proven innocent?) I agree with your guncontrol comment. We have 0 evidence that points it's a hate crime. Just the fact that one was blakc and the other was white? Why does that automatically mean "evidence" that it's a hate crime? Does he burn crosses? Tell his neghbors, "I like to hang me a Nigga"? What evidence besides them being different races that this was an act of hate?

[Speedlance]

This is not very well explained I'm sure there is more to this story but the turks who obviously is going on a witch hunt for racism clearly leaves out details, or perhaps they don't know anything more. I'm fairly sure there is more to this story. Perhaps afro american's need to rethink their "wear hoodys and look pissed" look and maybe people will not be so judgemental.

[Deleted]

Like I said before I would have to feel like I was in immediate threat of dying. And yes this includes whether I could run away or not.

But... I would like to point out this (just to keep up discussion)

In Runyan, the court stated "When a person, being without fault, is in a place where he has a right to be, is violently assaulted, he may, without retreating, repel by force, and if, in the reasonable exercise of his right of self defense, his assailant is killed, he is justiciable."

According to this, and I kind of agree with it. If I have the right to be somewhere. Why should I have to run away? Why don't I have the right to stand up and defend myself from attack?
*edit (just noticed I might be reading this wrong)

By what you quoted, you have all rights to defend yourself, but it states 'violently assaulted' so there was a point of contact which was not initiated by you. I agree with that too lol, it'd be odd to disagree with defending yourself whilst being the victim of an attack you had not initiated. But doesn't that differ with your point of feeling threatened? Didn't you just say danger before rather than immediate threat of dying?

Hell, I felt like I was in immediate threat of dying, sure as shit I'd do all I can to defend myself even if it means taking a life. But a 26 year old man, a big bastard from what I can see feeling imminent danger as a consequence of what looks to be a small 17 year old boy? So then shoots him in the chest? I can't agree with that.

[Orange Joe]

By what you quoted, you have all rights to defend yourself, but it states 'violently assaulted' so there was a point of contact which was not initiated by you. I agree with that too lol, it'd be odd to disagree with defending yourself whilst being the victim of an attack you had not initiated. But doesn't that differ with your point of feeling threatened? Didn't you just say danger before rather than immediate threat of dying?

Hell, I felt like I was in immediate threat of dying, sure as shit I'd do all I can to defend myself even if it means taking a life. But a 26 year old man, a big bastard from what I can see feeling imminent danger as a consequence of what looks to be a small 17 year old boy? So then shoots him in the chest? I can't agree with that.

When I say "life is in danger" I mean "I'm about to die!" Bodily harm I can deal with.

As for this case... This video is bullshit. If the police haven't arrested him I'm sure there is a reason. When is the last time you heard of someone not being arrested for shooting another person. My guess is they wanted some ratings, so they picked a story without many facts and ran with it. No I do not agree with just shooting a 17 year old kid. But there is a lot more these so called reporters AREN'T reporting.

[ophion1990]

Its sad that the buy got shot, even more sad is the fact that the man who did it isn't arrested yet. But I doubt he would just shoot a boy walking down the street though, if he was some insane racist wouldn't he have done something which would have caused him to be locked up sooner? :/

[Deleted]

When I say "life is in danger" I mean "I'm about to die!" Bodily harm I can deal with.

As for this case... This video is bullshit. If the police haven't arrested him I'm sure there is a reason. When is the last time you heard of someone not being arrested for shooting another person. My guess is they wanted some ratings, so they picked a story without many facts and ran with it. No I do not agree with just shooting a 17 year old kid. But there is a lot more these so called reporters AREN'T reporting.

Oh, 100% the video is bollocks lol, a lot of credibility was lost when they started swearing. Therefore I've done additionally reading just to find a more unbiased review of the situation, and a google search doesn't give me much differentiation from the bollocks in the video, other than the absence of nonsense for lack of a better word.

[Deleted]

According to zimmerman (the man who shot the kid) there was an altercation between them. Ontop of that he did call 911 BEFORE he shot the kid. The police arresting him and taking him into custody would require charging him with the crime. (guilty before proven innocent?) I agree with your guncontrol comment. We have 0 evidence that points it's a hate crime. Just the fact that one was blakc and the other was white? Why does that automatically mean "evidence" that it's a hate crime? Does he burn crosses? Tell his neghbors, "I like to hang me a Nigga"? What evidence besides them being different races that this was an act of hate?

That 911 call was bullshit, he called to report a suspicious figure in the neighbourhood. Hate crime aside (as you said there is no evidence to testify for this), he shot an unarmed dude because he thought he was suspicious. And sadly we will never get a pure account of what happened, because one party is now dead.

[Catta]

Guns don't kill people. Idiots with guns kill people.

And guns helps said idiots do it faster and more effectivly...

[Deleted]

EDIT: Woah, how the heck did I double post :S

[Foosha]

God that video makes me fucking rage. Just because this man held a stereotype that black people are suspicious does NOT make this a hate crime. Yes, people can be batshit crazy and retarded to kill someone, doesn't make this a hate crime.

If this was racially involved I doubt that he would call the police and only shoot the kid once in the chest

And pleeeeeaaaseee stop linking the Young Turks. It's not like they are extremely leftist or anything...

[Seegtease]

How does it make sense to argue anything when we don't know anything about the case?

Exactly. People say "hate crime" so matter-of-factly, when all we know is a guy shot someone who was unarmed.

We don't know why.

[Snakeseye0]

For the people saying it's not a hate crime. What is a hate crime then? What would that look like?

[Seegtease]

For the people saying it's not a hate crime. What is a hate crime then? What would that look like?

A hate crime has everything do to with motive. A white person killing a black person does not automatically mean hate crime (though usually the media ACTS like it does).

It seems we know nothing about motive, or anything else for that matter.

I don't have to prove that it's not a hate crime. You have to prove that it IS.

[Deleted]

I want to hear the shooter's side of the story in full detail before I make any conclusions, but I, as a gun advocate, think this guy was messed up and shouldn't have had a Concealed Carry permit at all.

No kidding :0
This is ultimately part of the price of loose laws around gun ownership. Because you just won't always see killings like this coming until its too late. If you think its a fair tradeoff, well and good. But don't pretend we have a way to mindprobe everyone who applies for a gun license to make sure they'll never ever misuse their firearm.

---------- Post added 2012-03-10 at 12:55 AM ----------

My point is, you can't take the unusual cases and treat them like they are the normalized incident. Taking away gun rights won't stop criminals. They'll illegally get guns regardless (how many times have pople been killed with stolen weapons?). If you ban all firearms in the country, criminals will go to crossbows. Ban them, they go to a regular bow (though most are too stupid to operate one properly). Ban them, they'll use rocks.

If someone wants to commit a violent crime, he'll do it. Banning guns won't stop people from being angry and violent. You can't ban angry and violent, either.

If we're giving up on stopping criminals getting guns, we should sell them guns too, no? After all, its just as easy for them to get guns illegally, so it shouldn't make any difference.

---------- Post added 2012-03-10 at 01:00 AM ----------

If he was coming at me with the appearance of attacking me. YES I would.

"Yes officer, the boy was walking aggressively in my direction, he appeared to be about to attack me. So I shot him a few times".

You are the person who makes me not want universal gun ownership.

[Shyzhi]

As we dont know both sides of the story no one can really put a correct comment forward. I know what i wanna say but cant word it :P todays ways are very... violant. When someone gets close to you and yes if its a black person you asume there in a gang if there wearing a hoodie so you get abit nervous. Ofc i know lots of black people who aint like that at all and are cool as. But its the sterotype people have these days, For all i know black people could see me as a milky freak i dont know :P But as the news shows lots of black people stabbing people randomly or being violant and ofc white people to but mostly black people as of the "gangs" people get scared and act on impulse. Like.. this teen might have a knife i wanna defend myself so he shot 1st, He had no idea the teen was unarmed. Saying that if he went over there and was like "We dont want your kind here!!" and then shot him, Then send him to jail.. or wait, Lets dig a 10meter pit in the middle of nowhere and just throw him in it. He can eat the worms and what not down there...

Also sorry if the term "black" is racist to people, I get confused if to say black, coloured or what :P so if i offended you i am truely sorry.

[Deleted]

That's the thing though.

Zimmerman didn't have to be thinking "hurr I don't like black kids, I'ma go shoot him", for it to be a racist incident.
If he was just thinking "oh crap, a black kid with a hoodie after dark, he must be up to no good, call the cops! Oh god he's shouting at me because I'm hassling him for no reason, I better shoot him before he pops a cap in my ass like on TV!"? Well that's still kinda racist. Unless he'd be equally happy to kill a young white kid with a hoodie, then he's still...ageist? Hoodie-ist?