Teen Killed In Neighborhood Watch Shooting

[KingHorse]

You must be living under a rock. Conrad Murray killed Michael Jackson, it's been all over the news man.

E-cookie for you sir. Well played.

[Deleted]

Actually, I have an amusing anecdote for you here: I once had a job that took me to some pretty seedy parts of NYC. I'm 6'3" 215 lb. (at the time, getting soft now) with a virtually shaved head and clean shaven face for the job. Myself and an employee took a walk from our job site to go grab lunch. We were the only white people we saw for at least a 10 minute walk in one direction. We were greeted no less than a dozen times with nods and "Good evening, officers" by the people we walked by on the street. White people were so out of place there that us being police officers was the only possible answer.

Heh, that's kinda sad that the only white people they see are cops. Atleast everyone was polite to you and you didn't run into any trouble
I'll be quite honest. I'm not nervous around black people. A lot of them around here are devout Muslims or Christians from Africa, so not very inclined to drinking or drugs. I'm nervous around poor, run-down neighbourhoods. In Ireland, they're predominantly white. Its still something of an irrational fear, but I can't shake it easily.

[KingHorse]

Its still something of an irrational fear, but I can't shake it easily.

It's not irrational at all. In fact, it's pretty much as rational as it gets: poor people (of absolutely every race) are no more prone to crime than any other class, but they are certainly more prone to violent crime than the others. Being wary of people who are statistically prone to violence is what rational people call "evolution at work."

[Deleted]

Pfft, opinion = fact, obviously.

Neighborhood watches are legal, he had a permit to carry a gun, and anything implying malicious behavior on his part is speculation at best, as only he knows all the facts.

While a record will definitely come in to play in court if you have one, not having one doesn't mean you are a good person.



Again, are you privy to the inner workings of the investigation?

Speculation. Provide credible sources.

All in all, the shooting seems to be a horrible accident at best, racist murder at worst. Either way, Zimmerman should be arrested.

Anyone who thinks this case isn't about race is intentionally fooling themselves.

And actual Neighbourhood Watches have come out and said that Zimmerman was breaking all their usual rules. One, by carrying a gun. Two, by chasing after Martin instead of just observing and calling the cops. He was more or less self-appointed, not a registered Watch member.

The problem is that Zimmerman had fairly sketchy reasons for even suspecting Martin was up to no good and going chasing after him. Was it the hoodie? Walking in the rain? His race?

http://abcnews.go.com/US/neighborhoo...6#.T2-aO9nvzUq

But after the shooting, a source inside the police department told ABC News that a narcotics detective and not a homicide detective first approached Zimmerman. The detective pepppered Zimmerman with questions, the source said, rather than allow Zimmerman to tell his story. Questions can lead a witness, the source said.

Another officer corrected a witness after she told him that she heard the teen cry for help.

The officer told the witness, a long-time teacher, it was Zimmerman who cried for help, said the witness. ABC News has spoken to the teacher and she confirmed that the officer corrected her when she said she heard the teenager shout for help.

They also took Zimmerman at his word that he had a clean record. And

He was also not tested for drugs or alcohol, which is a common procedure following any shooting death.

---------- Post added 2012-03-25 at 11:31 PM ----------

It's not irrational at all. In fact, it's pretty much as rational as it gets: poor people (of absolutely every race) are no more prone to crime than any other class, but they are certainly more prone to violent crime than the others. Being wary of people who are statistically prone to violence is what rational people call "evolution at work."

Eh, I suppose. Atleast I've never been attacked or anything, and most people I meet are quite nice.

[PACOX]

You seriously never been to hood huh? And there is no predominantly black neighborhood that is not the drug ridden inner-city so I have no clue what you are talking about there. Poor people tend to segregate for numerous reasons (not only blacks) that is why you hear the term "trailer trash" and immediately think white people. Getting it now?

---------- Post added 2012-03-25 at 09:48 PM ----------



Black people kill white people EVERYDAY. The last one I heard about was OJ simpson... Talk about miscarriage of justice...

This is why I love the internet, you can speak to people all of the country. Most of my family lives in Detroit and I was raised in Central FL. I've been to prjects where you lock your doors at the stop sign to middle class black neighborhoods. You made two mistakes in your post. You implied all black neighborhoods are ghettos full of drugs and that all black people are poor. The only real difference between a black person and a white person in a bad neighborhood is that the black person is more likely to spot trouble before it happens. Both are targeted by the gangs, both are prone to being victims.

Ive stated it already in this discussion but as a black male I am scared to walk in white suburbs even though Ive grown up in a middle class environment. The reason is like this case here. A shooting is the extreme ends of my worries but people are nasty when they feel you dont belong in their neighborhood. Ive been called racial slurs, the police called on me, stopped by the police, and threatened with violence as a kid because I was a black kid in a white neighborhood.

My point is that people have it tough everywhere . Ive had white, asians, hispanic, and indian friends catch hell in "safe" neighborhoods because of their race. Dont try to point some picture that because a white man can take a stroll in gang territory that the white man is being victimized. The reason why I am so involved in this case is because that could of easily been on of my cousins. You shouldnt have to feel afraid to walk down the streets in a gated community.

[Exp]

Stastistics have proven that strict gun laws only increase gun-related violence. The areas with the most strict gun laws have the highest numbers of gun-related murders in the country. (i.e. Chicago, New York City). I can link sources if you don't care to search for them yourself. There IS a correlation between violent crime and guns, but it is in the favor of less gun control laws.

Just a fun fact, the 31 states that have "shall issue" laws allowing private citizens to carry concealed weapons have, on average, a 24 percent lower violent crime rate, a 19 percent lower murder rate and a 39 percent lower robbery rate than states that forbid concealed weapons. In fact, the nine states with the lowest violent crime rates are all right-to-carry states.


P.S. I consider myself pretty liberal on nearly everything, but when those darn 'facts' are irrefutable, there is no denying them. Facts and statistics have no bias.

[Atrea]

Stastistics have proven that strict gun laws only increase gun-related violence. The areas with the most strict gun laws have the highest numbers of gun-related murders in the country. (i.e. Chicago, New York City). I can link sources if you don't care to search for them yourself. There IS a correlation between violent crime and guns, but it is in the favor of less gun control laws.

Just a fun fact, the 31 states that have "shall issue" laws allowing private citizens to carry concealed weapons have, on average, a 24 percent lower violent crime rate, a 19 percent lower murder rate and a 39 percent lower robbery rate than states that forbid concealed weapons. In fact, the nine states with the lowest violent crime rates are all right-to-carry states.


P.S. I consider myself pretty liberal on nearly everything, but when those darn 'facts' are irrefutable, there is no denying them. Facts and statistics have no bias.

That's funny, can I see some of those statistics? Not their interpretations either, let's see the actual statistics.

I ask because I live in a country where there are strict gun laws, and we have a handful of shootings per year.
There are obviously holes in your theories.

[Senbo]

honestly i find it horrible that this happened, its pretty obvious that zimmerman is at fault here. the thing that irks me is the double standard going on in media throughout the us. we have heard numerous stories covering this tragic event celebrities and politicians are speaking out against zimmerman, yet we havent heard anything about the 13 yr old white boy who was doused with gasoline and then lit on fire because he was white. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...nsas-City.html

both events are horrible and the people responsible should be brought to justice, but why is it no one reports the latter...

[Humungo]

I knew it was only a matter of time before this cropped up here, I've been following this for only about 3 weeks now... I think 3 days ago another witness came forward claiming Zimmerman was on the ground, the 17 year old on top of him, he ran inside to call the police, when he came back out then the kid was on the ground not moving being attacked by Zimmerman... Zimmerman had lacerations on the back of his head as well as a split lip.

Look at the facts.

Zimmerman should have listened to the dispatcher and not followed the kid.

Zimmerman obviously confronted him, Zimmerman commented in the 911 tape that he says the kid holding something in his hoody pocket thing, prolly assumed it was a weapon.

The 17 year old did not live in the area and was prolly lost looking in windows and yards trying to find his way back to where he was staying.

When confronted some kind of tussle did occur.

Someone, another witness claimed, sounded like a child was crying out for help, a gunshot, then silence, suggesting to her it was the victim.

The media has blown this out of proportion to the max, and of course presented no objectionable materials and sensationalized disgustingly. I mean all they show is a 13 year old photo next to a mugshot -.- I know of 17 year olds who can knock me flat on my ass and keep me there.

Before everyone loses their heads we need to wait until the trial, of course the police are keeping things under wraps, that's the procedure in an investigation!

Do I think this was racial? No, Zimmerman and his wife mentor for a pair of African American children on weekends, and he, according to his father, was raised in a multicultural family unit. What happened here was a series of misunderstandings (they somehow got into a fight) that led to a terrible tragedy that many groups are using to further their own agenda. I believe Zimmerman is guilty of manslaughter and negligence of some kind. But not cold blooded murder.

I really hope people can pull their heads out of their own asses out there, I'm actually scared about this situation that's brewing with the new black panthers... this is some frightening and fucked up shit right here. Freeman had it right when he said the only way to stop racism is stop talking about it and bringing it to the forefront of every action and thought, its like the only thing to fear is fear itself. Don't chase racism, it only gives it power by defining it.

[GennGreymane]

has thre been an arrest

all evidence seems to point to this guy has paranoia beyond comprehension. neighbors said they heard the kid screaming help, and the girl friend on the phone heard the same thing.

[Jodah]

That's funny, can I see some of those statistics? Not their interpretations either, let's see the actual statistics.

I ask because I live in a country where there are strict gun laws, and we have a handful of shootings per year.
There are obviously holes in your theories.

The biggest problem is that if a country has strict gun laws those are in effect everywhere in the country. That makes it harder to import guns to said country and, therefore, harder to obtain them. Not impossible mind you, but harder.

In the US, since guns are allowed and will likely always be allowed, strict laws do little to help. It is far easier to bring a gun across state borders than it is to bring it across country borders. Therefore, comparing countries with outright bans or strict national laws to the US doesn't really work.

Unless national laws either ban or strictly regulate guns, which won't happen anytime in the foreseeable future, state wide laws don't help much. It is better to use common sense laws (don't sell to minors, the mentally handicapped, felons, etc) that help some, but are not perfect, than it is to be overly strict, which only limits law abiding citizens from owning.

[matt4pack]

This is why I love the internet, you can speak to people all of the country. Most of my family lives in Detroit and I was raised in Central FL. I've been to prjects where you lock your doors at the stop sign to middle class black neighborhoods. You made two mistakes in your post. You implied all black neighborhoods are ghettos full of drugs and that all black people are poor. The only real difference between a black person and a white person in a bad neighborhood is that the black person is more likely to spot trouble before it happens. Both are targeted by the gangs, both are prone to being victims.

Ive stated it already in this discussion but as a black male I am scared to walk in white suburbs even though Ive grown up in a middle class environment. The reason is like this case here. A shooting is the extreme ends of my worries but people are nasty when they feel you dont belong in their neighborhood. Ive been called racial slurs, the police called on me, stopped by the police, and threatened with violence as a kid because I was a black kid in a white neighborhood.

My point is that people have it tough everywhere . Ive had white, asians, hispanic, and indian friends catch hell in "safe" neighborhoods because of their race. Dont try to point some picture that because a white man can take a stroll in gang territory that the white man is being victimized. The reason why I am so involved in this case is because that could of easily been on of my cousins. You shouldnt have to feel afraid to walk down the streets in a gated community.

The guy is Hispanic and the neighborhood was only 49% white so you have no point. You should hear from my friends about back when they would get pizza delivery's to predominantly black neighborhoods and what they went through.

I guess the media never learned anything as it's pretty much the Duke lacrosse case all over again.

[Humungo]

The biggest problem is that if a country has strict gun laws those are in effect everywhere in the country. That makes it harder to import guns to said country and, therefore, harder to obtain them. Not impossible mind you, but harder.

In the US, since guns are allowed and will likely always be allowed, strict laws do little to help. It is far easier to bring a gun across state borders than it is to bring it across country borders. Therefore, comparing countries with outright bans or strict national laws to the US doesn't really work.

Unless national laws either ban or strictly regulate guns, which won't happen anytime in the foreseeable future, state wide laws don't help much. It is better to use common sense laws (don't sell to minors, the mentally handicapped, felons, etc) that help some, but are not perfect, than it is to be overly strict, which only limits law abiding citizens from owning.

Sigh... guns aren't "imported" they are manufactured HERE!!! Wholly hell...

[Jodah]

Sigh... guns aren't "imported" they are manufactured HERE!!! Wholly hell...

Did you read a single word of my post? I seriously can't tell wtf you are talking about or what the point of your post was...

There are three gun manufacturers in Canada (where the person I quoted resides.) Colt, who only sells to their military, Savage, who only manufactures .22lr in Canada, and Para-Ordnance. That means anything other than a .22LR from Savage or a Para-Ordnance gun IS imported to Canada.

[obdigore]

has thre been an arrest

all evidence seems to point to this guy has paranoia beyond comprehension. neighbors said they heard the kid screaming help, and the girl friend on the phone heard the same thing.

Really? The first stories indicate that the people in the homes nearby heard Zimmerman screaming for help, and then the month-late girlfriend said the phone cut off before she heard any conversation between the two of them, much less any screaming for help. Do you have any sources that indicate this girlfriend heard anything else?

[madethisfor1post]

Really? The first stories indicate that the people in the homes nearby heard Zimmerman screaming for help, and then the month-late girlfriend said the phone cut off before she heard any conversation between the two of them, much less any screaming for help. Do you have any sources that indicate this girlfriend heard anything else?

Are these the people that were corrected by the cop that didn't follow police procedure? Or the screams for help that were heard on the phone calls that suddenly ended after a gunshot? I guess Zimmerman could have been yelling until he killed the youth then was all "It's okay now."

My favorite part is how the man who signed this "Stand Your Ground" legislation into law even said that it should not apply to this case. The second Zimmerman went after Treyvon all self-defense arguments were null and void.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/nation...pWS_story.html

[obdigore]

Are these the people that were corrected by the cop that didn't follow police procedure? Or the screams for help that were heard on the phone calls that suddenly ended after a gunshot? I guess Zimmerman could have been yelling until he killed the youth then was all "It's okay now."

My favorite part is how the man who signed this "Stand Your Ground" legislation into law even said that it should not apply to this case. The second Zimmerman went after Treyvon all self-defense arguments were null and void.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/nation...pWS_story.html

Oh you mean the narcotics detective who was the closest to the scene and was the one interviewing Zimmerman?

But it does cover it because of the idiocy of their laws. I don't care that Jeb Bush thinks it shouldn't apply, he signed the law as it was written, and this case, from the facts we have, falls under the self defense clause.

The rantings and ravings about racism and the media frenzy is just making it into an annoying and stupid case. If it gets the law changed, great. But it is also doing damage to the city community.

Although I don't agree with a lot of the conclusions here, look at what this site has put together regarding Trayvon being an 'angel' -> http://www.wagist.com/2012/dan-lineh...-a-drug-dealer

[Xeones]

I'm starting to get upset. For a week now Zimmerman has had his buddies out on the news networks giving interviews. One said (paraphrasing) "If he had just coopererated there wouldn't have been a problem!" Why would a kid feel compelled answer to some creeper who was stalking him? Zimmerman was no Police officer he had NO authority demand anything of the kid.

Now the lawyer is out giving interviews telling how Zimmerman has a broken nose and a gash on the back of his head. Why the hell would that be a defense?! If I were 17 again and some dude twice my size had been following me for a mile and he came to attack me you best be sure I'd fight for my life too!

[Deleted]

I just wanna give a Point of View from a Swiss Man, because I cant believe that something like that actually happens.

First of all, sure Switzerland is nothing like most parts of America but nevertheless... In Switzerland if you would see a 17 Year old Boy at the darkest night you would never assume that he is armed. Maybe you would be frightened, maybe you are worried about your well-being. But you would never shoot him! You would call the police and try to avoid direct contact if you are concerned that he could be a burglar. Why would you chase a person you are afraid of carrying a weapon if you are not the police?

And if you were that stupid, to shoot anyone because of selfdefense and there is no weapon on the other side... you are in trouble i can tell. Even if there IS a weapon and he didnt fire a single bullet you are in trouble. If you get beaten and you shoot that person, you are in trouble too and you know what? That is right! You are not allowed to kill anyone, never. And if you dont know it any better, shoot him in the leg... not the chest!

In my opinion the americans biggest problem is this passiv aggression against everyone and the radical charakter. Okay the half-heartedness of swiss people is mostly not the best thing too, especially when it comes to medical frist aid that lacks alot. But im sure, the fact that Weapons are not that common helps alot too round here. The biggest fear that comes in mind at night when you see a stranger that looks at you in a dubious way is that he could rob you. Not fucking kill you. Hell.

Please keep in mind, that I dont judge americans in general because of such happenings! And i am aware that Switzerland is not like Florida, but man... those people got weapons should chill the fuck out. You dont have too shot someone just because he is a threat, avoid him and call the police. Dont try to be a hero or more like a psycho in this case...

(English is not my nativ language, sorry for the grammer! I hope you can follow tho!)

[Vizardlorde]

did they find any drungs on the kid's system after the autopsy or any blood tests if they did any?
also i dont think starting a fight being surprised that the other person fight's back and shooting him as soon as he acts should not be considered self defense.