Teen Killed In Neighborhood Watch Shooting

[Isuckatpvp]

Once again, what COULD HAVE happened doesn't mean any more than the pile of dog shit laying in my back yard. You know why? Because guess what! That's not how it happened.

All that matter is trying to use and find the best evidence they have to figure out whether or not this man deserves to be in prison or not. It's a real shame the kid died, oh well, but that's long over with.

SHOULD he be in jail is totally irrelevant to whether he WILL be as well. Yeah, he should be. His actions caused someone to die who shouldn't have. That doesn't mean he's going to see a day in jail because, well, the other person is dead. So, we don't get to hear his side. Only the one of the guy who did the shooting.

[mmmantisss]

One kid walking at night was shot by a neighborhood watch member of the community in FL....
Your response - OMG OMG OMG OMG NATIONAL OUTRAAAAGE!

People are being decapitated in New Mexico and Texas by mexican drug gangs, and mass killings are right at our border. EVERYDAY. The mex police have no control....
Your response - Whatever...

Your sense of proportion is not working.

[senshu]

Super well put. He was a vigilante. Doing a none organized neighborhood watch and out their knowing he had a gun as a backup. If I was every neighborhood watch and saw someone commiting a crime, guess what? I would probably assume that the person could turn violent and why the heck would I want to pursue or confront that person. They saying "material things can always be replace, a life you cannot". I'm not going to risk my life for say a car stereo.

Last good point as minute as he pursued martin he lost his claim to self defense. People who want to say Zimmerman was getting beat down do not know what happened before that. Zimmerman's word vs a dead person. Maybe Zimmerman was getting his butt whooped or jumped? Again if he would have just called police and that was it never would have happened.

You've clearly not read anything on this case since the initial reports came out with no information in them. Most of what you're saying here is way off base.

[tj119]

SHOULD he be in jail is totally irrelevant to whether he WILL be as well. Yeah, he should be. His actions caused someone to die who shouldn't have. That doesn't mean he's going to see a day in jail because, well, the other person is dead. So, we don't get to hear his side. Only the one of the guy who did the shooting.

No, neither you, I nor anyone else is in the place to say whether or not he deserves to be in prison. We don't and might never know what actually happened. There's possibilities it was flat out murder and self defense. Just not enough to decide which for anyone; anyone saying he deserves one or the other is just talking out of their ass.

[Isuckatpvp]

One kid walking at night was shot by a neighborhood watch member of the community in FL....
Your response - OMG OMG OMG OMG NATIONAL OUTRAAAAGE!

People are being decapitated in New Mexico and Texas by mexican drug gangs, and mass killings are right at our border. EVERYDAY. The mex police have no control....
Your response - Whatever...

Your sense of proportion is not working.

Oh man I haven't heard a thing about this!!! Tell us more!!! Especially in a thread that has nothing to do with it!!!

[Borzo]

You say that with proper training, he wouldn't have gotten out of his car, I say it's irrelevant and does not justify an attack in any event. Get it?

I get it, and I agree with you - yet again - but you still protest, and keep saying the same things over and over again after I've already agreed with you.

My original comment was on gun control and the level of training and experience Zimmerman had. This is irrelevant with regards to the justifications for self-defence... I even said so in my own posts. You quoted those posts. But I made my post in response to the suggestion that if Zimmerman didn't have a gun, the kid would probably be alive, and that if he was better trained and experienced, the kid would probably be alive.

/slowlystepsawayfromthecomputer

[Isuckatpvp]

No, neither you, I nor anyone else is in the place to say whether or not he deserves to be in prison. We don't and might never know what actually happened. There's possibilities it was flat out murder and self defense. Just not enough to decide which for anyone; anyone saying he deserves one or the other is just talking out of their ass.

Sure I can. It's an opinion and mine says he should be in jail. He created a situation that led to someone being killed. Just like I'd say the same thing if someone created a situation where someone got trampled to death when it didn't need to happen. That's not talking out of my ass. If you think he made a good decision by confronting him after calling the police, well that's your choice. I happen to think it was the wrong choice.

[Xolgrunek]

The best part of this is that all these "black" people claim the shooter was a "cracker" the shooter was a mexican, not white.

[Paranoid Android]

You've clearly not read anything on this case since the initial reports came out with no information in them. Most of what you're saying here is way off base.

Luz. Really? He followed or pursued if you want to call it that. 911 tapes show that. Interviews with neighbors and people have said he was a wannabe cop. He failed entrance into the police academy. Carrying a gun for neighborhood watch is excessive. I also stated my opinion if I was in that situation of just calling cops, so learn to read. By simple deduction if Zimmerman would have not followed him, Martin would be alive. Maybe the cops would have caught up with him, questioned him or maybe Martin would have walked home with no incident.

[Szazi]

Yep, Letting U.S Citizen to carry guns. Works well huh?

U.S Never learns.

<Infracted>

[gzathegenius]

how old is zimmerman and how did this teenager overpower a grown ass man "get him on the floor and bash his head in??" i mean really...think about it...grown ass man getting his ass handed to him by a teenager....

[Finangus]

Should it be legal to shoot someone to death in self-defence just because you think they're gonna punch you? Serious question.

---------- Post added 2012-03-27 at 06:43 PM ----------



Is this one of those "facts" that I've heard people in this thread talk about?

1: Getting punched alone isn't justification for shooting someone in self-defense: however, if you're on the ground, and your attacker has you pinned down, is continuing to attack you, then it may be justified. At that point they're no longer just trying to punch you to shut you up or prove a point, but are instead attempting to seriously injure you.

2: If you consider eye-witness testimony to be fact, then yes.

Also, here's a real fact that should be considered: Treyvon Martin was 6"3'. Zimmerman is 5"9'. Treyvon was also an American football player, which would probably place his weight (given his height) in the 190-230 lb range. Potentially more, depending on the position he played.

If Martin did attack Zimmerman, and if he did pin him to the ground and continue to punch him and slam his head into the concrete, then it's understandable how Zimmerman would have felt his life was in jeopardy. Zimmerman would have been under attack from someone much larger, fit, and likely stronger than himself.

Again, at this point it's all pure conjecture, since what really happened on that night is heavily muddied by conflicting witness testimonies and the media circus constantly parading out conjecture and opinion as hard facts.

[Borzo]

Once again, what COULD HAVE happened doesn't mean any more than the pile of dog shit laying in my back yard. You know why? Because guess what! That's not how it happened.

All that matter is trying to use and find the best evidence they have to figure out whether or not this man deserves to be in prison or not. It's a real shame the kid died, oh well, but that's long over with.

Ah, but it's not over with. If the laws don't get changed, this whole thing might happen again, and again... and again. You've clearly lost sight of the bigger picture.

[Marimba]

how old is zimmerman and how did this teenager overpower a grown ass man "get him on the floor and bash his head in??" i mean really...think about it...grown ass man getting his ass handed to him by a teenager....

Out of shape ~200-250lb 5'8" guy gets his ass handed to him by a 6'3" ~150-170lb highschool football player. Doesn't seem too unreasonable to me.

[katsung47]

This fact doesn't make Zimmerman legally responsible or liable... but it still matters. Because the kid is dead. .

Who is in self defense? A man with a gun and actively provocated a search, or a man without weapon on his way home?

This case rouses a question. If people encounter a stranger with a gun to search him, does he has the right to self defend himself? In this case, a murderer said he killed for self defense. That opened the door to bandit to rob people without any risk. If he failed, he could kill the victim then claim he is self defense. That is the point.

[Isuckatpvp]

1: Getting punched alone isn't justification for shooting someone in self-defense: however, if you're on the ground, and your attacker has you pinned down, is continuing to attack you, then it may be justified. At that point they're no longer just trying to punch you to shut you up or prove a point, but are instead attempting to seriously injure you.

2: If you consider eye-witness testimony to be fact, then yes.

Also, here's a real fact that should be considered: Treyvon Martin was 6"3'. Zimmerman is 5"9'. Treyvon was also an American football player, which would probably place his weight (given his height) in the 190-230 lb range. Potentially more, depending on the position he played.

If Martin did attack Zimmerman, and if he did pin him to the ground and continue to punch him and slam his head into the concrete, then it's understandable how Zimmerman would have felt his life was in jeopardy. Zimmerman would have been under attack from someone much larger, fit, and likely stronger than himself.

Again, at this point it's all pure conjecture, since what really happened on that night is heavily muddied by conflicting witness testimonies and the media circus constantly parading out conjecture and opinion as hard facts.

Not a fact at all. . .but who's checking those right? Zimmerman is about 230lbs and Martin was about 150lbs.

[Venteus]

Zim shouldn't of followed him. However if this kid did in fact assault Zim, then the act is justified. Hopefully the investigation returns fruitful.

This in no way makes me question my support of armament laws, dead kid or not I would like that option to defend myself.

[Droids]

God you are stupid. Like, I don't know how to reply to your post with out some hint of anger towards you. You're just stupid.

People who want to, or wish to to discus this topic should be objective and look at everything. Instead you're just defend this guy blindly(yes, it is blind) with out taking the other side of the topic into discussion at all. Or at least what I've seen from your recent posts.

I mean, what if it actually went down like this:

Zimm: "Get the fuck out of here"

Tray: "Leave me alone, I'm just heading home"

Zimm: "Leave, now(pushes Tray)"

And then the fight breaks out. What if it happened that way? You don't know, the other side of the story is dead. Idiot. Speculations are stupid.

And another thing, what the hell. People saying he was getting his head bashed in for a minute? What the fuck, a minute is a long time. How long can you survive getting your head bashed on concrete. The answer: Not long. Obviously waay over exaggerate. He didn't even need medical care. So stupid to try and defend him with saying that. Only an idiot would believe that.

<Infracted>

Only someone with no real idea for discussions resorts to personal attacks.

The fact you have become so emotionally involved in this, shows me you lack an unbiased viewpoint, something you say I lack, yet I have offered nothing buy what the evidence shows, and have constantly shown people what that evidence is.

You say speculations are stupid, then start speculating. uh.....okay

[Marimba]

Who is in self defense? A man with a gun and actively provocated a search, or a man without weapon on his way home?

This case rouses a question. If people encounter a stranger with a gun to search him, does he has the right to self defend himself? In this case, a murderer said he killed for self defense. That opened the door to bandit to rob people without any risk. If he failed, he could kill the victim then claim he is self defense. That is the point.

Invent stuff much?

[whyusocrazy]

So, random stranger with a gun approaches me with a hostile attitude questioning me about why I'm in the area that I'm perfectly allowed to be in, I can't defend myself.

However, if I have a gun, confront someone who I think is suspicious after I've called the police, and then kill him after he punches me, that's ok.

Glad I understand.

Took you this long to understand the law? ffs no wonder our country is going down the crapper.