Teen Killed In Neighborhood Watch Shooting

[HyperSpeed2011]

Some people are just f*cking out of their mind, just because the kid was black he is suspicious? Fair enough if he was actually doing suspicious stuff call the cops be alerted, but dont just pull out a fucking gun and shoot him!

100% arrest this man.
RIP to the family and the kid.

[alturic]

Some people are just f*cking out of their mind, just because the kid was black he is suspicious? Fair enough if he was actually doing suspicious stuff call the cops be alerted, but dont just pull out a fucking gun and shoot him!

100% arrest this man.
RIP to the family and the kid.

Can you link me the article that states that? Yea, I'm saying how do you know that he wasn't doing something "suspicious", how do you know a gun was pulled and shot at him without any altercation, without any other reason than for a guy to shoot another guy?

[HyperSpeed2011]

Can you link me the article that states that? Yea, I'm saying how do you know that he wasn't doing something "suspicious", how do you know a gun was pulled and shot at him without any altercation, without any other reason than for a guy to shoot another guy?

Maybe he was doing something suspicious, Maybe he wasn't. Still the point is, if somebody (Especially a KID) is unarmed carrying freaking skittles im quite sure the protocol for self defense is not to shoot them..

[alturic]

Maybe he was doing something suspicious, Maybe he wasn't. Still the point is, if somebody (Especially a KID) is unarmed carrying freaking skittles im quite sure the protocol for self defense is not to shoot them..

That's my point, you made it sound like the guy (he wasn't a kid by the way), was innocent. You definitely don't know that. Secondly, if it was dark out and someone who's black is reaching into his pocket you don't know what he's going for, and that doesn't ever matter because: Thirdly, you are once again, ignoring the fact that there was multiple witnesses as well as the shooter (obviously) who stated there was an altercation/fight and the guy was ontop of the shooter. The shooter felt his life was in danger (and by law) he had the legal right to shoot (wounding or killing) his attacker.

In a nutshell that's exactly what's been reported by every station out there.

There's nothing wrong with me following you, you turning around and starting to throw fists, knock me down, get ontop of me and beat then try beating the shit out of me, hitting my head against the ground and me shooting you, according to Florida law. The law is on my side. I felt my life was in imminent danger, I had the right to shoot you in that situation.

I'm not technically 100% for Zimmerman but of course you can change some events at will since you are the only person alive to tell about what happened. All I'm saying is that not a single person outside Zimmerman will ever know EXACTLY what happened that night.

[saffi]

That's my point, you made it sound like the guy (he wasn't a kid by the way), was innocent. You definitely don't know that. Secondly, if it was dark out and someone who's black is reaching into his pocket you don't know what he's going for, and that doesn't ever matter because: Thirdly, you are once again, ignoring the fact that there was multiple witnesses as well as the shooter (obviously) who stated there was an altercation/fight and the guy was ontop of the shooter. The shooter felt his life was in danger (and by law) he had the legal right to shoot (wounding or killing) his attacker.

In a nutshell that's exactly what's been reported by every station out there.

There's nothing wrong with me following you, you turning around and starting to throw fists, knock me down, get ontop of me and beat then try beating the shit out of me, hitting my head against the ground and me shooting you, according to Florida law. The law is on my side. I felt my life was in imminent danger, I had the right to shoot you in that situation.

I'm not technically 100% for Zimmerman but of course you can change some events at will since you are the only person alive to tell about what happened. All I'm saying is that not a single person outside Zimmerman will ever know EXACTLY what happened that night.

pursuing someone might be technically legal, but how convieniently do you ignore the fact that someone tailing you can be percieved as a threat? All that probably happened was that zimmerman brought a gun to what would've been a fist fight otherwise (and one that he provoked nonetheless, does anyone deny that if zimmerman didn't tail him, this never would have happened)

[alturic]

pursuing someone might be technically legal, but how convieniently do you ignore the fact that someone tailing you can be percieved as a threat? All that probably happened was that zimmerman brought a gun to what would've been a fist fight otherwise (and one that he provoked nonetheless, does anyone deny that if zimmerman didn't tail him, this never would have happened)

I don't know, I really find it hard to believe that if someone was following anyone they would turn around and want to "fight" them considering what does that do exactly? Nothing. I never really understood "fighting" to begin with but whatever.

I don't think someone "following" me would be considered a threat. I mean shit, depending on the routes taken the dude could have simply been doing the same thing you were, walking home from the store with a bag of skittle and iced tea.

Zimmerman didn't bring a gun anywhere. Zimmerman was carrying a gun as his right in case something physical happened to him and he needed to defend himself.

I think it's clear that nothing would have happened to zimmerman if he didn't follow him but you never know what martin truly was doing in the area pacing around houses, etc.

[tombstoner139]

Does this situation make you more or less interested in your local laws.
People who want to expand the stand your ground law to other states are right now
lobbying your state legislature(a bit of hyperbole, not all but a few).
This situation or some version can happen and will happen, passably to someone you know.
what are you willing to do about it?

[alturic]

Does this situation make you more or less interested in your local laws.
People who want to expand the stand your ground law to other states are right now
lobbying your state legislature(a bit of hyperbole, not all but a few).
This situation or some version can happen and will happen, passably to someone you know.
what are you willing to do about it?

Nothing because you should be able to stand your ground against someone trying to harm you. Well, that and the fact my state already has one. :P

---------- Post added 2012-04-09 at 12:02 PM ----------

So, this just posted by CNN: Special prosecutor in Trayvon Martin shooting has decided against sending the case to a grand jury, her office says.

[saffi]

I don't know, I really find it hard to believe that if someone was following anyone they would turn around and want to "fight" them considering what does that do exactly? Nothing. I never really understood "fighting" to begin with but whatever.

I don't think someone "following" me would be considered a threat. I mean shit, depending on the routes taken the dude could have simply been doing the same thing you were, walking home from the store with a bag of skittle and iced tea.

Zimmerman didn't bring a gun anywhere. Zimmerman was carrying a gun as his right in case something physical happened to him and he needed to defend himself.

I think it's clear that nothing would have happened to zimmerman if he didn't follow him but you never know what martin truly was doing in the area pacing around houses, etc.

What exactly was your counter-argument here? That martin looked suspicious? If that's the case, then its a crappy argument. It's like a rapist saying "look at the way she dressed, she was asking for it".

So someone following Trayvon isn't considered a threat, but him walking around a neighbourhood is considered sketchy? What the hell?

[alturic]

What exactly was your counter-argument here? That martin looked suspicious? If that's the case, then its a crappy argument. It's like a rapist saying "look at the way she dressed, she was asking for it".

So someone following Trayvon isn't considered a threat, but him walking around a neighbourhood is considered sketchy? What the hell?

Well, first of all, yea some girls who dress with all sorts of things exposed and act like sluts kinda do ask for things to happen to them (excluding rape), whether that's being hit on every 5 minutes at a bar or someone trying to grope them. I'm not old fashioned by any sense of the imagination but why exactly would you go out with everything but your pussy/ass/tits fully exposed?

Someone following anyone isn't considered a threat. Think of what you are saying when you say it is. Him walking around a neighborhood isn't suspicious, no. Him pacing around in front of houses in a neighborhood he doesn't live is. Him having a backpack with a bunch of stolen jewelry in it adds fuel to the fire that (while Zimmerman didn't know at the time obviously) what he WAS doing there was suspicious. Of course I'm not saying "he got what he deserved" before he even did anything (stealing/B&E) but at the end of all of it witnesses said they seen him on-top of Zimmerman beating him up.

The law states Zimmerman was legally able to use a gun on someone who's causing him "great bodily harm" or "imminent death".

The law, according to the information that was made public it's an open and shut case of self-defense with the law on Zimmerman's side. He did nothing wrong. He didn't "provoke" the guy by stopping him, pushing him, beating him and then losing the upper-hand and martin taking control of the fight. At least that's not the information given to the public anyway.

Let me put it to you this way. If you were following me, in a neighborhood with a bunch of break-ins recently and you seen me pacing around houses, with a hoodie on (masks/clothing used almost all the time in break-ins), while on the phone (you suspect I'm talking to my cohorts), and you call the police and the dispatcher (NOT A POLICE OFFICER) tells you someone is on the way and you don't need to follow me, would you want to keep an eye on me since you know that between the time you hang up and the time police arrive there's a good chance of me running when I hear sirens considering I may be scoping a house out? I know that the last thing on my mind is that if I seen you checking me out would be to even approach you, let alone cause an altercation or say anything to you.

If I was that concerned about trying to stop break-ins and such I can guarantee you I wouldn't confront you (who know's YOU may have a gun) let alone confront you, throw punches, knock you down, bang your head off the ground, etc. <-- was reported by several witnesses according to news outlets.

[Isotope]

Tomorrows Grand Jury was called off. Looks like at this time even the special prosecutor feels no law was broken and Zimmerman was within his legal right.

Next we will be talking about all the riots.

[saffi]

Well, first of all, yea some girls who dress with all sorts of things exposed and act like sluts kinda do ask for things to happen to them (excluding rape), whether that's being hit on every 5 minutes at a bar or someone trying to grope them. I'm not old fashioned by any sense of the imagination but why exactly would you go out with everything but your pussy/ass/tits fully exposed?

Offtopic as it is, but I'll still say this : because it's a right to wear as much provocative clothes as I wish. Dudes with peabrains at random bars might not understand that, but that changes nada.

Someone following anyone isn't considered a threat. Think of what you are saying when you say it is. Him walking around a neighborhood isn't suspicious, no. Him pacing around in front of houses in a neighborhood he doesn't live is. Him having a backpack with a bunch of stolen jewelry in it adds fuel to the fire that (while Zimmerman didn't know at the time obviously) what he WAS doing there was suspicious. Of course I'm not saying "he got what he deserved" before he even did anything (stealing/B&E) but at the end of all of it witnesses said they seen him on-top of Zimmerman beating him up.

How did Zimmerman or anyone know that he didn't live in that neighbourhood? This was found out after the fact. Suspiciousness is subjective at best, and not a reason to pursue someone and take the law into your own hands : trying to police the neighbourhood is taking the law into your own hands, if you don't agree to this, we don't have much to discuss, sorry.

The law states Zimmerman was legally able to use a gun on someone who's causing him "great bodily harm" or "imminent death".

The law, according to the information that was made public it's an open and shut case of self-defense with the law on Zimmerman's side. He did nothing wrong. He didn't "provoke" the guy by stopping him, pushing him, beating him and then losing the upper-hand and martin taking control of the fight. At least that's not the information given to the public anyway.

we haven't heard a full disclosal of the facts at hand, so neither I nor you can comment on what happened, so let's not.

Let me put it to you this way. If you were following me, in a neighborhood with a bunch of break-ins recently and you seen me pacing around houses, with a hoodie on (masks/clothing used almost all the time in break-ins), while on the phone (you suspect I'm talking to my cohorts), and you call the police and the dispatcher (NOT A POLICE OFFICER) tells you someone is on the way and you don't need to follow me, would you want to keep an eye on me since you know that between the time you hang up and the time police arrive there's a good chance of me running when I hear sirens considering I may be scoping a house out? I know that the last thing on my mind is that if I seen you checking me out would be to even approach you, let alone cause an altercation or say anything to you.

No, not everyone is that paranoid. I see people like that all the time when I go out on nightly walks..Most people who talk on the phone continuously while late at night, do that to ensure that if they are assaulted..someone knows both the location and time of the assault (they can call the police right away). Also, what's wrong with having a hoodie on? Maybe it was chilly? Jeez. Murderers use gloves to hide their fingerprints, should people be scared during winters?

If I was that concerned about trying to stop break-ins and such I can guarantee you I wouldn't confront you (who know's YOU may have a gun) let alone confront you, throw punches, knock you down, bang your head off the ground, etc. <-- was reported by several witnesses according to news outlets.

Who is "I" in this case? Zimmerman or Trayvon?

[madethisfor1post]

Tomorrows Grand Jury was called off. Looks like at this time even the special prosecutor feels no law was broken and Zimmerman was within his legal right.

Next we will be talking about all the riots.

IMPLYING that is what was reported.

"The decision should not be considered a factor in the final determination of the case," Corey's office said in a statement.

The grand jury, set to convene on Tuesday, was previously scheduled by the former prosecutor.

Corey previously said she has not used grand jury's in cases like this and added that from the time she was appointed she said she may not need a grand jury.

The decision about whether or not to charge George Zimmerman in the case now rests with prosecutors.

"At this time, the investigation continues and there will be no further comment from this office," in the statement.

[Svifnymr]

How did Zimmerman or anyone know that he didn't live in that neighbourhood? This was found out after the fact. Suspiciousness is subjective at best, and not a reason to pursue someone and take the law into your own hands : trying to police the neighbourhood is taking the law into your own hands, if you don't agree to this, we don't have much to discuss, sorry.

gated community, perhaps he knew a good bit of his neighbors. Either way, there'd be a string of burglaries in the area and he didn't run up and tackle the guy, he called the police so they could investigate. Martin saw him stop, saw him on the phone, then left the scene in a hurry.

No, not everyone is that paranoid. I see people like that all the time when I go out on nightly walks..Most people who talk on the phone continuously while late at night, do that to ensure that if they are assaulted..someone knows both the location and time of the assault (they can call the police right away). Also, what's wrong with having a hoodie on? Maybe it was chilly? Jeez. Murderers use gloves to hide their fingerprints, should people be scared during winters?

It was raining, which makes the hoodie logical enough. It does add to the suspiciousness of standing around in that rain though, so it's a wash. While folks point to the hoodie, it didn't mean that it was the thing that drew attention, it was just part of the description given to police.

[KingHorse]

gated community, perhaps he knew a good bit of his neighbors. Either way, there'd be a string of burglaries in the area and he didn't run up and tackle the guy, he called the police so they could investigate. Martin saw him stop, saw him on the phone, then left the scene in a hurry.

From my understanding, Martin didn't live there, he was just "visiting his dad" (i.e. had to go somewhere while he was suspended from school)

That, however also means that the whole "he's looking around" thing likely meant he wasn't sure where dad's house was in the raining darkness.

[artemishunter1]

The aol news section has article claiming Zimmerman case won't be taken by grand jury (the people who decide whether there are enough evidence to prosecute someone), but instead will be taken by District Attorney (the office is very political). If the case went to trial, all the facts of the case would become public, since its not going through grand jury, if zimmerman is not prosecuted, the most likely answer we will get from the District Attorney will be there were not enough facts to prosecute. Zimmerman's innocence won't be proven by the courts or the facts but the word of a person in political office. How the hell our system became this way?

[bekilrwale]

Not even close to enough evidence to convict Zimmerman. It is the duty of the state to provide evidence that shows beyond a reasonable doubt that their accusation is correct. And there is not enough evidence to prove this beyond a reasonable doubt.

[Paladin885]

-they have zimmerman's report
-they have his 9-11 calls
-they have a second (more like the 23rd lol) 9-11 call from a neighbor
-that second call has a word heard, "help," that CNN claims to not be zimmerman... but no proof that it is/is not Martin either (so that data is inconclusive by default)
-they have state laws

thats basically it...

-they do not have any hard data on martin
-they do not know the reason of him being there (except that he was suppose to be somewhere else... according to his daddy)
-they do not have martin's voice to analyze
-they do not have enough data period

This will not go to trial, and I hate that for the family but there is no case here. People still want zimmerman's blood and retribution and that alone is making it worse than what it is.

To make matters worse, first you have the NAACP playing reverse-roleplay with torches and pitchforks rallying in Florida demanding the head of Zimmerman and now you have black people assaulting white people, like that elderly man who was brutally beaten by 2 black teenagers here recently. If we want to stop racsim, this BS here needs to stop.

my worst fear is that there will be no trial, and that zimmerman will be murdered. I don't want that. "We" americans don't need that.

[Riidii]

I agree. There just isn't a strong enough case to convict Zimmerman, despite how anyone may feel about it.

Way too many questions and way too many uncertainties. In a court of law, there are no assumptions and what-ifs, just cold hard evidence.

Sadly, I don't think anyone will every know what truly happened.

[alturic]

http://therealgeorgezimmerman.com/ for anyone who want's to donate to help this guy out since he has to live in fear for his life, had to quit his job, and is probably going to have more than 1 lawsuit (criminal or civil) against him in the future because he was defending himself against an assailant.