Teen Killed In Neighborhood Watch Shooting

[Vanyali]

Most people in his situation would retain counsel, and most especially, not make a phone call to the DA to try to have a personal meeting. And he didn't just drop his lawyers, he just cut off contact and can't be reached. Sounds like trouble if you ask me.

Sounds to me like he's planning something.

No, not shooting up someplace, more like running somewhere. Or both, who knows.

[Siverna]

I find it fishy that he has gone rogue. Very interesting that this happened. Also I don't believe in the excuse he is running away because so many people want to kill him. Look at Casey Anthony, killed a child and so many people wanted to get her. I hated her guts more than Zimmerman and she is still kicking here...sadly....=/

[katsung47]

In this case, the gun holder takes upper hand. Whatever happened, the other side was dead. A dead person could never defend for himself.

That left others have to believe what the gun holder says. It will encourage people to kill in argument becuase there are too many advantages for a killer in similar case.

But should a law help the weaker side for the justice?

[Cattaclysmic]

Although in the case of this situation martin would have been stabbed (to death?) instead of being shot. Arguments can be made for both scenarios using both weapons.

1. Didnt he play football - shouldnt he be able to run?
2. Coroners would be able to see if there were defensive wounds
3. Its much harder to kill with a knife than people think - you gotta get really close

[rigoremortis]

Most people in his situation would retain counsel, and most especially, not make a phone call to the DA to try to have a personal meeting. And he didn't just drop his lawyers, he just cut off contact and can't be reached. Sounds like trouble if you ask me.

agreed, sounds fishy.


part of me at first wanted to give this guy the benefit of the doubt, but after hearing his fairly racist remarks on that 911 call (.."these assholes always get away"), and being told not to follow, and then finally seeing a 48 page report from the state of florida detailing this man calling the police on multiple ocassion's, all for "suspicious men" (all of whom happened to be young, black males) that never turned out to be anything, i simply cannot see a reason why anyone would back this guy up. he's clearly a racist with a problem with black people in particular.

[Wells]

Possible trouble for Zimmerman's old attorneys

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/201...-ethics-rules/

Essentially they went out and said "Martin did it and this is how it happened" and you can't say go around tainting the jury pool like that.

[Rocketsurgeon]

1. Didnt he play football - shouldnt he be able to run?
2. Coroners would be able to see if there were defensive wounds
3. Its much harder to kill with a knife than people think - you gotta get really close

It is hard to run when you're on your back.
I'm not sure I'd argue for the difficulty of killing with a knife. I've never taken a life with a knife, but I have stabbed someone. I would not describe the act as difficult. The hard stuff comes after.

[Borzo]

There has to be some sort of civilian version of entrapment, where you can't attack someone or force them to attack you and then claim self-defense when you push that fight to an extreme end.

That's how it works in much of the civilized world. In Florida... not so much.

Technically you have to try to retreat and/or back down before shooting someone in self-defense (if you started the situation). But in practice that's a flexible issue... what if there's no witnesses? What if you claim the other person was reaching for a gun? It's hard to enforce this exception.

You cannot create the situation because by doing so you are committing a forcible felony, and are therefore not protected by the law.

What are you talking about? Following, approaching, and confronting someone is not a forcible felony.

---------- Post added 2012-04-11 at 07:19 AM ----------

How do we know that's his website? How do we know it's not someone else's website who is trying to milk Zimmerman's notoriety for cash?

[Bakis]

How do we know that's his website? How do we know it's not someone else's website who is trying to milk Zimmerman's notoriety for cash?

His attorneys left him, his website was one of the reasons so yes it is his.


I got a question maybe someone from Florida can answer. Has there been no debate within Florida that the legislation is a bit too slack?

[Shon237]

Well, first of all, yea some girls who dress with all sorts of things exposed and act like sluts kinda do ask for things to happen to them (excluding rape), whether that's being hit on every 5 minutes at a bar or someone trying to grope them. I'm not old fashioned by any sense of the imagination but why exactly would you go out with everything but your pussy/ass/tits fully exposed?

Someone following anyone isn't considered a threat. Think of what you are saying when you say it is. Him walking around a neighborhood isn't suspicious, no. Him pacing around in front of houses in a neighborhood he doesn't live is. Him having a backpack with a bunch of stolen jewelry in it adds fuel to the fire that (while Zimmerman didn't know at the time obviously) what he WAS doing there was suspicious. Of course I'm not saying "he got what he deserved" before he even did anything (stealing/B&E) but at the end of all of it witnesses said they seen him on-top of Zimmerman beating him up.

The law states Zimmerman was legally able to use a gun on someone who's causing him "great bodily harm" or "imminent death".

The law, according to the information that was made public it's an open and shut case of self-defense with the law on Zimmerman's side. He did nothing wrong. He didn't "provoke" the guy by stopping him, pushing him, beating him and then losing the upper-hand and martin taking control of the fight. At least that's not the information given to the public anyway.

Let me put it to you this way. If you were following me, in a neighborhood with a bunch of break-ins recently and you seen me pacing around houses, with a hoodie on (masks/clothing used almost all the time in break-ins), while on the phone (you suspect I'm talking to my cohorts), and you call the police and the dispatcher (NOT A POLICE OFFICER) tells you someone is on the way and you don't need to follow me, would you want to keep an eye on me since you know that between the time you hang up and the time police arrive there's a good chance of me running when I hear sirens considering I may be scoping a house out? I know that the last thing on my mind is that if I seen you checking me out would be to even approach you, let alone cause an altercation or say anything to you.

If I was that concerned about trying to stop break-ins and such I can guarantee you I wouldn't confront you (who know's YOU may have a gun) let alone confront you, throw punches, knock you down, bang your head off the ground, etc. <-- was reported by several witnesses according to news outlets.

Wow! First I'm going to leave your "a girl who dresses a certain way" ask for things excluding rape. For any women who read these forum posts I bet they beg to differ.

Now your if you want an arguement PLEASE, PLEASE get your facts right. First he was not pacing in front a house at all, he was shot 70 yards from the home he was going to (his father's I believe). LOL him having a backpack full of jewelry was related to the school incident. All Trayvon had was a cell phone, skittles and tea (that has been reported). So again your arguement for Zimmerman is he can follow/pursue anyone "suspicious". Well again first Zimmerman has no training on who/whom to deem suspicious. If Zimmerman saw a crime or at least some neighbor would have called/spoke to Zimmerman saying a person fitting Trayvon's description would give more credit to Zimmerman. I dont give a crap about race, for all I know so far race had nothing to do with this but I still see Zimmerman as an overzealous, even vigilante type who thought he was Captain Crimefighter stopping crime. If you think our society is better that people or people with guns can pick people who are "suspiciious" then not a place I want to live.

The other point is more or less my opinion. 1) It was said Zimmerman was going to Target, not acting as neighborhood watch but as soon as he called 911 and decided to pursue him I believe his right to carry a weapon for "self defense" goes out the window. Again this is all legal technicalities that probably will go more to a civil lawsuit. 2) Martin was on his phone talking to his girlfriend. PLEASE don't use person wearing a hoodie talking on phone is about to break-in house. That's a pretty broad picture and again would love to be in your neighborhood as watch.

I just think your adding lies and unfounded facts to the arguement is not a good way to back your arguement or opinion. If its your belief that ANY person can start deeming people as "suspicious" then that's a scary place for where we are going. Carrying a gun on top of that just adds to the nightmare.

As far as what has come out so far on the case and the stupid Florida law I do see it as a hard case to prosecute and Zimmerman will probably go free. Last up to date his lawyers (who didnt really represent him) went out of bounds and told attorney-client privledges last night. I think Zimmerman will still be able to claim self defense and the law will be on his side. I don't agree with this but that is how it is.

[pacox]

His attorneys left him, his website was one of the reasons so yes it is his.


I got a question maybe someone from Florida can answer. Has there been no debate within Florida that the legislation is a bit too slack?

Lived in Central FL all my life.

Tons of debate about legislation, and this isn't the first time. People who were obviously looking for trouble or in the wrong have successful escaped conviction off because of the way the law is interpreted. There has been tons of complaints against the Sanford police. A lot of counties require the Neighborhood Watch to be supervised and go there a training program by the police, Sanford's is not.

[Cattaclysmic]

It is hard to run when you're on your back.
I'm not sure I'd argue for the difficulty of killing with a knife. I've never taken a life with a knife, but I have stabbed someone. I would not describe the act as difficult. The hard stuff comes after.

When people are killed with knives the attacker often ends up hurting themselves too

[Shon237]

gated community, perhaps he knew a good bit of his neighbors. Either way, there'd be a string of burglaries in the area and he didn't run up and tackle the guy, he called the police so they could investigate. Martin saw him stop, saw him on the phone, then left the scene in a hurry.

Your opinion but your arguement scares me. Again you just assume Martin is guilty, if he runs he is guilty. I can use the arguement as 17 year old or any age somebody following you, does not identify themselves or no signs of being police or authority (say the rent-a-cops) then I would not stop either. I mean you are saying people can't use their phones out in public (funny) and say left the "scene" which again you are trying to tie this into CSI Sanford, Zimmerman had no training.

It was raining, which makes the hoodie logical enough. It does add to the suspiciousness of standing around in that rain though, so it's a wash. While folks point to the hoodie, it didn't mean that it was the thing that drew attention, it was just part of the description given to police.

Again, where are your facts. He was not standing around. What, Zimmerman said this? I mean if I walking at night or anytime of the day I can't "stand around." Again you are trying to be a detective and deem people guilty. I do not know you but I'm sure you and 99.9% have no training at all. I hate the race aspect of it but this is where if EVERYONE is going to start deem people as suspicious then there will be alot of racial profiling. Yes it happens even with police but they do use many more techiniques to weed out supsicious people then just driving down road.

Your fir

[Kamatayan]

The amount of misinformation in this thread is astounding.Too many people taking what the racist race baiters Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson say.As far as Zimm being in hiding would you not go into hiding if the black KKK(New panther party)put a bounty on your head.

[Bakis]

When people are killed with knives the attacker often ends up hurting themselves too

Only if they use a dumb knife, one without a bar that protects the hand from slipping forward over the blade, those noobish criminals

[Cattaclysmic]

Only if they use a dumb knife, one without a bar that protects the hand from slipping forward over the blade, those noobish criminals

Aka non-hunting knives :P

[Dacien]

According to a law enforcement official close to the investigation, the special prosecuter will indeed charge Zimmerman, though what the charge(s) will be is unclear.

Just heard on the radio.

[Tierbook]

i could see him getting charged with ignoring police but thats about it....

[Shon237]

The amount of misinformation in this thread is astounding.Too many people taking what the racist race baiters Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson say.As far as Zimm being in hiding would you not go into hiding if the black KKK(New panther party)put a bounty on your head.

Luz. Funny how you hate the "race baiters" Then you mention that Zimmerman is in hiding because of Panther party death threats. First do you know that is why he is hiding? I'm not denying the death threats but its ALL because of Black Panther party. Also you one-sided speak of race is also great not including graffiti at Ohio State's black cultural center (which Zimmerman actually had on his website).

Again I agree race should be left out this and I think race had nothing to do but don't rant about race then just post one side of the arguement.

[Tinykong]

What are you talking about? Following, approaching, and confronting someone is not a forcible felony

I was referring to the poster, and others, who keep trying to claim that you can use self defense laws, and stand your ground laws, as a shield for a person who starts a fight and kills the other person.