[Megathread] DotA 2

[Deleted]

The real issue with DotA, and the reason you get these idiotic drama queens in what's supposedly a very skilled bracket, is that you can be very mechanically proficient at the game and still be an absolutely fucking awful DotA player. I can't tell you how many times I've lost games with a carry on my team that was entirely capable of 10+ CS a minute and was 5-6k ahead of the opposing carry in terms of net worth, but made completely retarded itemization decisions, died without buyback, etc.

I've actually almost lost a game as an absurdly fed Bristleback vs a Radiance Butterfly Alch and a Phoenix because my mongoloid SF player decided he would rather have a Desolator and a Butterfly than Satanic and MKB, and kept saying "I need BKB" while not buying BKB. It takes every ounce of self-control I have to not abandon games like that.

You can literally get to 5k+ with mediocre mechanics if you can just stop yourself from doing retarded shit. Good map sense, good sense of objectives, and good itemization will make a 5k player even if you ulti creeps once in a while, but even if you have Miracle-level mechanics you're not getting to 6k if you buy retarded items and make idiotic decisions, which is honestly the bane of most 4-5k players.

Edit: Also people are completely incapable of taking warranted criticism in DotA games. If you tell your idiot Slardar Lina duo queue that they're throwing the game by running around chasing kills on solo heroes instead of 5-manning with their super farmed Viper and 12-minute Mek Undying, they'll just tilt and actively do the exact opposite of what would win them the game. It's actually like trying to cajole a bunch of tantrum-throwing toddlers into doing what you want them to.

[Lysah]

Yeah, I started watching some casual pro solo queue now that I have two monitors, and it amazes me to watch the mid 6k+ bracket. People actually listen for the most part, it's incredible. EE will yell at someone to go push a lane and 9/10 times they immediately go do it, or when he says to back off they usually do. If you say "hey go push top so we can rosh safely" in 4-5k people will just go jungle and ignore you or tell you to fuck off and start feeding couriers. It gets really hard to want to play DotA ranked at this level when every single player is dead set on being as uncooperative as possible.

I believe I said just 20 pages ago or something that there isn't a huge mechanical difference between 4k and 5k and 6k players. Once you can last hit and aim your spells you're pretty much at the top of the game already, aside from a few sick moves that take skills, but only a couple of heroes are really capable of impressive feats. The biggest difference between trench edgelords and pro players is decision making and that's all it takes.

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And terrorblade picked lmao

[Deleted]

Yeah, I started watching some casual pro solo queue now that I have two monitors, and it amazes me to watch the mid 6k+ bracket. People actually listen for the most part, it's incredible. EE will yell at someone to go push a lane and 9/10 times they immediately go do it, or when he says to back off they usually do. If you say "hey go push top so we can rosh safely" in 4-5k people will just go jungle and ignore you or tell you to fuck off and start feeding couriers. It gets really hard to want to play DotA ranked at this level when every single player is dead set on being as uncooperative as possible.

I believe I said just 20 pages ago or something that there isn't a huge mechanical difference between 4k and 5k and 6k players. Once you can last hit and aim your spells you're pretty much at the top of the game already, aside from a few sick moves that take skills, but only a couple of heroes are really capable of impressive feats. The biggest difference between trench edgelords and pro players is decision making and that's all it takes.

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And terrorblade picked lmao

I mean even pros sometimes just make laughably awful itemization decisions. Take the Liquid vs Elements game earlier today where Matumbaman brought a HoT against a Zeus.

Yeah, I'll just repeat that for impact. A HoT against a Zeus and an AA.

The commentators naturally all lauded his decision to "tank up" without giving any sort of regard to the fact that he could literally have bought a fucking Glimmer Cape instead and it would have given him more EHP against Zeus because Zeus passive doesn't fucking care how much health you have.

I think the basic lesson here is that everyone is trash at DotA and you have to just embrace that DotA isn't a game of "who is best", it's a game of "who's going to be least retarded this time?"

[Mellomania]

Homing missile + sunstrike lmao x)

[Lysah]

I don't understand criticizing a team for not defending rax. This coL vs POF game, POF just let coL take rax for free with no resistance, and the casters are all "NA dota elegiggle" nice memes guys, but if they tried to defend and got team wiped AND lost rax it would have been a second lane, maybe a third, probably game over either way. If you have a better late game team, there is an obvious advantage to not just feeding because "MUST SAVE RAX HURR" if you know you can't win the fight.

[M1r4g3]

I don't understand criticizing a team for not defending rax. This coL vs POF game, POF just let coL take rax for free with no resistance, and the casters are all "NA dota elegiggle" nice memes guys, but if they tried to defend and got team wiped AND lost rax it would have been a second lane, maybe a third, probably game over either way. If you have a better late game team, there is an obvious advantage to not just feeding because "MUST SAVE RAX HURR" if you know you can't win the fight.

Well most casters are 3-4k which is in the ''DEFEND RAX/T1 TOWER AT ALL COST'' range so its only natural that they would think that

[Mellomania]

Found this vid pretty nice.

[Lysah]

hahaha, I love those Storm clips, getting a rampage just by clicking R behind the enemy team and killing 3 or 4 of them instantly, balanced hero spirit rest in fucking pieces

[Deleted]

hahaha, I love those Storm clips, getting a rampage just by clicking R behind the enemy team and killing 3 or 4 of them instantly, balanced hero spirit rest in fucking pieces

I, for one, would welcome a reversion of the Storm nerfs, with the caveat that I'd only welcome it if Ball Lightning no longer made you invulnerable.

The way I see it, the aspect of the ulti that's fine and creates compelling gameplay is the part where if you're a skilled player, you can juke the actual cast animation so your opponent effectively stutter-casts forever trying to get the ability off. The part that's retarded is the part where you wait for Sven to cast his stun and then *zippity-zappity* shimmy your blue, crackling, overdimensioned ass 50 units over and take zero damage. That part is fucking retarded.

That or honestly they could just revert the cast point nerf on Doom - that hero is fucking trash now and could use the buff.

Edit: LMAO that Shazam comeback what a fucking clownshow what the FUCK were PoF doing?!? Classic Sneyshit carry play.

[Lysah]

I agree, I'd be okay with Storm if his ult didn't make him literally immune. If it didn't disjoint and he could still take damage, he wouldn't be able to ult away at 10 hp from 5 heroes and laugh, and if a gauntlet was chasing him he'd have to eat it. He'd still be strong if they reverted the mana nerf, he'd be able to zip away, eat the stun at a safe place, and come back, so there would be room for a lot of skillful plays. But, realistically, with as much damage as he can put out, he should be forced to go BKB against a team with a lot of stuns. Right now, it doesn't matter how much CC you stack if none of it is instant. Luckily his ult costs so much mana now he can't do anything, and that's fine by me.

Edit:
Liquid is actually really good at dota guys. I'm really curious to see what happens when they face a real team.

[Crackleslap]

I don't want to storm spirit make a return any fucking time soon.

[StrawberryZebra]

I don't want to storm spirit make a return any fucking time soon.

As much as I absolutely loathe Storm, I don't want him to be left in a state where he's almost totally unplayable. Unfortunately the current design of Ball Lightning really limits what can be done with him. He's one of those Heroes who's been balanced almost entirely on his numbers, but who would really benefit more from having a review of his abilities. Letting you still damage and CC him in Ball Lightning would be a good start, but its an ability thats flawed from the ground up. It severely limits what power can be put onto his other abilities simply because of how easilly he can apply that power. I'd like to see it stripped out and replaced with something else entirely, something that keeps the theme of Storm as a super mobile hero, but that also doesn't lead to him being completely bullshit.

[Lysah]

They should just change ball to be an ability with a cast time. Make it functionally the same as it is now, but instead of turning into lightning and zipzapping to where you click, it marks the location and he stays where he is, able to cast and attack until the "cast time" of the ult finishes, at which point he teleports instantly to that location. Make the "cast time" equal to the current travel time of his ultimate, make the mana cost equal to the old mana cost (before the latest nerf), suddenly he's fine. He still has insane mobility in short bursts, but if he wants to zipzap 2000+ units, it'll take several seconds where he is still vulnerable. He'll still be able to dodge spells and stuns, but it'll take a lot more skill than just ulting in place (though I guess that would still be technically possible). He can still nuke people with max mana ult bombs, but it'll take time to set up and he'll have to legitimately aim where he lands, not just click somewhere remotely behind the enemy team.

There, Storm fixed, basically I'm a fucking genius. If they want it to fit some sort of lore fantasy, they can say that Storm charges up his power, at the end of which he turns into lightning, jumps into the sky, and bolts back down at the target location. Lightning in a space as small as the dota map would be functionally instant anyway (see Zeus ult). Rename the ability Lightning Jump or something.



Empire showing how good Oracle can be totally shutting down a mid Lina with a support, I know someone who will be happy about this.

[Deleted]

Really hope Liquid annihilate Team Spirit. Iceberg is a gigantic, gaping asshole and a detriment to the DotA scene. He's the Ritsu of EU without the sister-stalking and I hope he never, ever, ever fucking makes it to a Major.

The guy is actually just a complete and unrepentant asshole. I don't think I've ever seen him in a pub without raging, telling teammates to kill themselves, etc.

[Lysah]

I don't expect Spirit could take a game off of Liquid. Jerax Earth Spirit doing work today.

[Deleted]

I don't expect Spirit could take a game off of Liquid. Jerax Earth Spirit doing work today.

Looks like your prediction came true, even if game 2 was rather close at times.

Idk what to make of the Empire vs Spirit matchup. On the one hand Empire is the team that can throw literally anything, and on the other hand a team with Goblak on it is bound to lose sooner or later because Goblak literally makes Ixmike look mechanically proficient.

[Deleted]

Honestly, Team Liquid(and LGD) should of been invited directly. Alliance should of been forced to go through qualifiers(and I doubt they would of made it) and there shouldn't be 2 NA slots.

[Deleted]

Honestly, Team Liquid(and LGD) should of been invited directly. Alliance should of been forced to go through qualifiers(and I doubt they would of made it) and there shouldn't be 2 NA slots.

I fail to see how this makes any sense when Alliance beat both teams at WCA, which is their most recent contest.

It's not that I disagree that both should have been direct invites, but this is more of an issue with invite distribution than it's an issue with Alliance being directly invited. In the eyes of Valve, Alliance clearly earned the invite by beating their direct competition for it at WCA, whether you like that or not.

I'd also argue that there are too few slots in the Majors in general considering the current depth of the DotA 2 scene. I think you could easily make a case for adding another 4-6 teams to the pool of teams that goes to the group stage of Majors. It's a farce that teams like Empire aren't locks to go to the Major while teams like Shazam still have a shot of making it.

[Lysah]

Looks like your prediction came true, even if game 2 was rather close at times.

Idk what to make of the Empire vs Spirit matchup. On the one hand Empire is the team that can throw literally anything, and on the other hand a team with Goblak on it is bound to lose sooner or later because Goblak literally makes Ixmike look mechanically proficient.

Nah I said that after the games were over, I just didn't want to make a spoilery post :P

And yeah, I think Liquid proved they earned a direct invite. DotA could probably benefit a lot from having more teams show up to majors/TI, but not sure how easy it is for Valve to support that.

[Deleted]

I fail to see how this makes any sense when Alliance beat both teams at WCA, which is their most recent contest.

It's not that I disagree that both should have been direct invites, but this is more of an issue with invite distribution than it's an issue with Alliance being directly invited. In the eyes of Valve, Alliance clearly earned the invite by beating their direct competition for it at WCA, whether you like that or not.

I'd also argue that there are too few slots in the Majors in general considering the current depth of the DotA 2 scene. I think you could easily make a case for adding another 4-6 teams to the pool of teams that goes to the group stage of Majors. It's a farce that teams like Empire aren't locks to go to the Major while teams like Shazam still have a shot of making it.

WCA's organization aspect was a disaster though, so I wouldn't read too much into those results. What I dislike about Alliance is that they haven't grown as a team at all, its just that the patch favors them so much.

I think 16 slots are enough for the Majors. Its just that they need to be the best 16 teams worldwide, and not 2 from the NA Qualifier where the skill level is much lower than China and specially EU and the other issue is the prize pool for Major/TI is big compared to other tournaments that its too punishing not to get a piece.

Empire shouldn't be a lock to go to the major. They had 2 recent roster changes and tbh they're not good enough. A qualifier invite is ok and they still have a chance in the lower bracket. I'm most sad for Na'vi not making the major because they shown massive signs of improvement in terms of skill(but they tilt a lot and their drafting is god awful), but now they'll probably break again since not making Major ==>GG.